Is this Father Fish inspired aquarium doomed?

[Mr.Shenanagins]

I’ve always seen him mentioned but anything he professes or pushes goes against everything I ever learned from other more knowledgeable aquarists or experts. Another name that YouTuber I remember was Dr. Novak. He had some good videos but he lost me when he argued that fertilizers weren’t necessary in a planted tank. He was and still is a major proponent of anoxic filtration

 

[Art]

anoxic filtration

 

[Kwyet]

So it boggles my mind that Father Fish has gathered over 310K subscribers on YouTube over a period of 5 years. What???

Is it the allure of an inexpensive tank that has all these people mesmerized?

I think it’s the crazy claims about never needing to do a water change. Just do it his way and supposedly you’re done with maintenance. Maybe also because he created so much controversy that people wanted to see for themselves.

 

[Koan]

over 310K subscribers

Well but hitting the Subscribe button doesn't actually mean anything? I'd be more curious how many actual live views a day or a week he has of full content views, not browse past..
It's free to click Subscribe, I suspect maybe the majority of people have kind of a hoarder or bookmarking mentality towards possibly interesting feeds, that they never actually look at again.

Guilty

I know my subscription list is full of feeds I never use. Someone apparently looked interesting once when I was looking up something or other, sure can't remember now!

 

[Jeff Miotke]

I think it’s the crazy claims about never needing to do a water change. Just do it his way and supposedly you’re done with maintenance. Maybe also because he created so much controversy that people wanted to see for themselves.

So it boggles my mind that Father Fish has gathered over 310K subscribers on YouTube over a period of 5 years. What???

Is it the allure of an inexpensive tank that has all these people mesmerized?

Yea Im not sure what the motivation behind all this is. i did hear rumblings about this guy through my audiences and I looked into him a bit. Apparently the noise is actually him paying a staff of people to pump out a massive amount of comments using ai and making it appear his preachings are great. So a sea of lies repeated over and over would fool anyone trying to learn. While experienced aquarist can see right through this propaganda, the beginner or even intermediate level aquarist are vulnerable.

All we can do is continue to help hobbyists learn how to be repeatedly successful and enjoy this hobby. The group gathered on this forum are some of the best in the world. So a big thank you to Art for making it possible. Also all the other contributions online like the podcasts. I miss the old Scapefu episodes. Such good stuff.

 

[Koan]

Apparently the noise is actually him paying a staff of people to pump out a massive amount of comments using ai and making it appear

This is my shocked face

Wow. Grifters gonna grift

Though it is something we have reached that day where somebody would go to the trouble to make a living grifting off of.. underwater plants

 

[Art]

I miss the old Scapefu episodes. Such good stuff.

Well, thank you for the kind words, @Jeff Miotke! I miss doing the podcast too. It would be great for someone to do one that has the time and stamina. I think our hobby could use one.

 

[Pepere]

Is it the allure of an inexpensive tank that has all these people mesmerized?

On a related note, I have an awfully hard time understanding why avoiding water changes is such a goal that is so appealing to some people..

Or why people do not want to add any fertilizer….

Or not want to have to feed the fish and add cultures to the tank that reproduce fast enough to feed the fish…

And why not having a filter is desireable…

And I dont want to have to trim plants either….

In essence I want an aquarium that requires no input on my part after setting it up…

Honestly there is enough aquarium content on Youtube I could just watch b roll footage of nice tanks when I wanted to and not have the inconvenience of a tank taking up space….


To me feeding the fish and watching them eat is enjoyable…

Water changes with a python is easy enough a d easier then dealing with issues from not changing water.

I weigh out dry salts once a month or so to make my own solution at about 1/15 th the cost of premixed bottles. Measure and dump a few times a week. Service filters maybe every 4-6 weeks..

Trim plants weekly in co2 tanks and every 4-6 weeks in non supplemented tanks.

Wipe algae off glass weekly…

Father Fish and Dr Novack methods dont appeal to me any…. Nor do their videos.

I tried a walstead tank early on and that doesnt appeal to me either…

 

[Pepere]

I did not initially notice this post was originally from April 2, 2024.

I see original poster last visited the forum on April 7th of that year.

I wonder how long the poster continued trying to manage the tank and what eventual outcome was.

 

[Asher E.]

Not new to the hobby, and in the past, did "play" with Walstad-inspired tanks and bowls quite successfully. Several months ago, started watching Father Fish' videos, and five days ago (3/28/24), I put together my very first Father Fish-inspired 10 gallon tank. As I later learned, I made a huge mistake by going with Father Fish' older video, in which his recommendation about the content of the dirt is COMPLETELY OFF from his "updated" list today

As I later learned--too late for me, sadly--his "new, updated" list calls for zero compost, zero "snail food" and MUCH less baking soda (in this video above, he uses 1 cup of baking soda per 55 gallon while his current recommendation calls for 1 tablespoon per 100 gallon). So, going by his 4y.o. video--which he clearly was too busy to delete or correct... something I find to be very irresponsible and can't help being very angry about--it would have been 8.7 teaspoons per 10 gallon tank (since there are 16 tablespoons / 48 teaspoons in 1 cup). So, when I put in 5 teaspoons, it felt like "being conservative", "being on the safe side". Instead, going by his "updated list", I am leaps and bounds ABOVE the recommended amount (my tap water here in Arizona is hard as it is). Plus, at least 25% of my dirt is compost, some fish flakes (instead of snail food that he was using in his video), bone meal, also some spirulina powder... so LOTS of organics .

Today is day 5. I have a LOT of "pocket spaces" building in the sand layer of the substrate, creating large "cracks". When I pock through the sand with planting tweezers, huge bubbles of gas with a strong odor of rotten eggs (sulfur) come up to the surface. How normal or abnormal is this? My understanding is this being produced by “sulfur bacteria” as the result of decomposition of organics. From what I am reading, “sulfur bacteria” can produce "slime" that feeds other types of bacteria. It does seem like a problematic scenario that can easily lead to bacterial bloom. This sounds like a recipe for disaster. Is this aquarium doomed or there is still hope? Getting it redone is really out of question at this time. Obviously, I will not be putting any fish into this sulfur-burping mess of a tank until and if I am able to stabilize it.

What can I do--if anything--to help this tank be viable long term? Thanks so much in advance!

I’m a couple months late, but I have some advice for you.

Stop listening to father fish. I got into the hobby with his method, and I became staff in his discord server. But then I tried using liquid fertilizer, and it worked out a lot better, and water changes, and then I tried a tank with aquasoil and the plants grew so much better.

I learned the hard way that the father fish method isn’t good. He makes it sound like it’s good but really it’s not any better than just doing plain sand with liquid ferts.

 

[Koan]

I think our hobby could use one

George Farmer did about six or seven episodes of an Intro to Aquascaping podcast a number of years ago.. That man ought to rent his voice out to the Calm app reading the dictionary or something seriously, his long-form intonation comes out as just the most pleasantly relaxing, peaceful voice you can imagine

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

@Koan I thoroughly enjoyed that podcast and wish he’d continue. If you haven’t caught it yet, Jeff Senske did a series like that as well and I loved that as well.

 

[Art]

Podcasting is tough. It’s a one sided conversation, usually, and very little feedback to the podcaster.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Podcasting is tough. It’s a one sided conversation, usually, and very little feedback to the podcaster.

Nonsense, you held your own quite well and at times had conversations with yourself mid podcast!

But I do get what you’re saying. The podcast I was referring to with Senske, he had several guests with different experiences and perspectives in the game. Really fun to listen to.

 

[gjcarew]

At some point Dennis Wong said something along the lines of how Americans tend to be bizarrely proud of the most mediocre tanks. And it's true - look at the garbage you see from American YouTubers (Father Fish, Aquarium Co-op, Kevin Novak) vs European YouTubers (Green Aqua, George Farmer, MJ Aquascaping). No idea why we seem to celebrate mediocrity in the US

 

[Koan]

No idea why we seem to celebrate mediocrity

/ getting plants to grow at all..

I think Americans gravitate to American content, so really don't know what they're missing, or have anything great to compare it to. Never underestimate an American consumer's mistrust of a foreign accent on a video if it's not David Attenborough in 4k HD, it's too much.

vs European YouTubers

MD Fishtanks is a Brit..

 

[Count Krunk]

/ getting plants to grow at all..

I think Americans gravitate to American content, so really don't know what they're missing, or have anything great to compare it to. Never underestimate an American consumer's mistrust of a foreign accent on a video if it's not David Attenborough in 4k HD, it's too much.



MD Fishtanks is a Brit..

everything east of the atlantic is europe unless those commie chinese (satire)

 

[Count Krunk]

there's far more examples of ehh tanks in LFS and big box pet stores all across the USA then there are LFS or legit public aquariums with nice setups.

So for the people who haven't seen those, they get slightly past the LFS ehh tanks and are like

 

[Dennis Wong]

I think the great con of the father fish types is the use of the word "natural". The term carries extra appeal to a society poisoned by over-medication and manufactured food. In the same time that American society has become distrustful of large corporations/institutions - with the idea that everyone is being played for a dollar with sweet marketing, I can definitely see the appeal of a seemingly homeless man chiming about "natural" processes and using low cost materials. In a nation where kids are told from young that they can do anything they strive for as long as they believe in it hard enough, why would plants be limited by as ridiculous an idea as carbon availability.

There is also definitely quite a bit of the crowd in the US that flock towards more crude approaches as they are locked out of the higher end tank systems due to inaccessibility or unaffordability of equipment/plants. Despite the rather high personal income levels in the US relative to other countries, the distribution of planted tank equipment/plants in the US is still very poor in a general sense.

If I sourced my equipment directly from China sites (something many asia side hobbyists do - if not them, the shops import from China and have cheap price tags), and replaced the Oase filter with a generic china brand, the entire tank below can be set-up for less than 400 USD with change to spare. My guess is that in the states the cost will be 3X or more

 

[Asher E.]

I think the great con of the father fish types is the use of the word "natural". The term carries extra appeal to a society poisoned by over-medication and manufactured food. In the same time that American society has become distrustful of large corporations/institutions - with the idea that everyone is being played for a dollar with sweet marketing, I can definitely see the appeal of a seemingly homeless man chiming about "natural" processes and using low cost materials. In a nation where kids are told from young that they can do anything they strive for as long as they believe in it hard enough, why would plants be limited by as ridiculous an idea as carbon availability.

There is also definitely quite a bit of the crowd in the US that flock towards more crude approaches as they are locked out of the higher end tank systems due to inaccessibility or unaffordability of equipment/plants. Despite the rather high personal income levels in the US relative to other countries, the distribution of planted tank equipment/plants in the US is still very poor in a general sense.

If I sourced my equipment directly from China sites (something many asia side hobbyists do - if not them, the shops import from China and have cheap price tags), and replaced the Oase filter with a generic china brand, the entire tank below can be set-up for less than 400 USD with change to spare. My guess is that in the states the cost will be 3X or more
View attachment 8529

In the USA just that light or filter would probably cost close to $400.
I spent over $600 on a 5.4 gallon aquarium, and that’s without the plants, but I did get diy fertilizer ingredients, so that will last a while but it was expensive at first.
Also my tank looks terrible compared to yours, and it’s smaller, and it was more expensive