Is this Father Fish inspired aquarium doomed?

[Firestorm]

Not new to the hobby, and in the past, did "play" with Walstad-inspired tanks and bowls quite successfully. Several months ago, started watching Father Fish' videos, and five days ago (3/28/24), I put together my very first Father Fish-inspired 10 gallon tank. As I later learned, I made a huge mistake by going with Father Fish' older video, in which his recommendation about the content of the dirt is COMPLETELY OFF from his "updated" list today

As I later learned--too late for me, sadly--his "new, updated" list calls for zero compost, zero "snail food" and MUCH less baking soda (in this video above, he uses 1 cup of baking soda per 55 gallon while his current recommendation calls for 1 tablespoon per 100 gallon). So, going by his 4y.o. video--which he clearly was too busy to delete or correct... something I find to be very irresponsible and can't help being very angry about--it would have been 8.7 teaspoons per 10 gallon tank (since there are 16 tablespoons / 48 teaspoons in 1 cup). So, when I put in 5 teaspoons, it felt like "being conservative", "being on the safe side". Instead, going by his "updated list", I am leaps and bounds ABOVE the recommended amount (my tap water here in Arizona is hard as it is). Plus, at least 25% of my dirt is compost, some fish flakes (instead of snail food that he was using in his video), bone meal, also some spirulina powder... so LOTS of organics .

Today is day 5. I have a LOT of "pocket spaces" building in the sand layer of the substrate, creating large "cracks". When I pock through the sand with planting tweezers, huge bubbles of gas with a strong odor of rotten eggs (sulfur) come up to the surface. How normal or abnormal is this? My understanding is this being produced by “sulfur bacteria” as the result of decomposition of organics. From what I am reading, “sulfur bacteria” can produce "slime" that feeds other types of bacteria. It does seem like a problematic scenario that can easily lead to bacterial bloom. This sounds like a recipe for disaster. Is this aquarium doomed or there is still hope? Getting it redone is really out of question at this time. Obviously, I will not be putting any fish into this sulfur-burping mess of a tank until and if I am able to stabilize it.

What can I do--if anything--to help this tank be viable long term? Thanks so much in advance!

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Based on the deep cap you have, looks like maybe 4-5”, your substrate is going to have a serious issue with getting any oxygen. Those plants won’t reach down there for a very long time, and what your experiencing now is not a positive sign. Aside from tearing it down and starting over which you have already indicated is not happening any time soon, your just gonna have to let it run its course.

I can’t speak to father fish’s techniques as I haven't watched any of his videos, but I’ve not heard positive things from any of any experienced aquarist in regards to his methods

 

[GreggZ]

What can I do--if anything--to help this tank be viable long term? Thanks so much in advance!

Stop listening to Father Fish.

Most of what he says is complete nonsense.

 

[Burr740]

There's a reason he's not called Father Plants

 

[gjcarew]

I once made a tank with worm castings, activated charcoal, potting soil, osmocote, Mexican red clay all topped with 1.5 - 2" of aquasoil. This is how it turned out:

Just let it ride. It's gonna be funky until you get some plant roots growing down and oxygenating the soil, but if you don't have any fish in there then no big deal.

 

[Firestorm]

Thank you, gjcarew! Your tank looks gorgeous!
I added more plants yesterday, and thus far, doing water changes almost daily. The tank is exactly one week old today .

Sadly, althernathera recuicci 'mini' on the front is dying off. In the past, with my prior Walstad-inspired tanks and bowls that was one plant I could always count on to thrive. Hoping that somehow, in some miraculous way, it recovers, but not holding my breath as it never used to melt like this on me before.

 

[Count Krunk]

Id remove the plants remove half or more of the cap, put plants back in and boom, have aw walstadish tank.

 

[Firestorm]

Id remove the plants remove half or more of the cap, put plants back in and boom, have aw walstadish tank.

The reason I moved on from walstad-inspired to Father Fish inspired is because Walstad tanks and bowls that I "played" with in the past grew stunning plants, but the water quality was just plain NASTY, with both ammonia and nitrite off the chart high, even a year in

 

[Count Krunk]

Well a hob filter would help with such a problem.

 

[Firestorm]

Well a hob filter would help with such a problem.

The levels were off the chart abnormal, that's my point. HOB did help some, but the water was never really conducive to livestock while the plants thrived.

 

[BigWave]

STOP LISTENING TO ALL THESE YOUTUBE EXPERTS!!!!
Your mix of dirt will indead grow plants good once the bacteria convert all the bad stuffs, but it also produces enourmous amounts of organics which in lamen terms sours the soil (ph, gH , kH and whatever else). Plant roots and good bacteria steer clear or just die from it. Look up how to make mineralized soil. It is a way to fast tract removing all the bad organics, toxins etc. You do have to break down and remove the soil to make it though.
The Father Fish method along with Walstead work great for a high tech injected CO2 tank if done right. That said they both are re-creating a nutrient rich substrate. Only difference with say ADA Amazonia and theirs is the ADA has been processed eg mineralized then turned into little balls.... All 3 of these you should be doing daily water changes until the tank somewhat matures.
1. Your sand cap is massive like it was said above it will take months for the plant roots to reach the good dirt. Eg why your AR is dying.
2. Pull random plants throughout the tank maybe weekly or every 2 weeks. Look at the roots. If they are bright white, little tiny hairs and growing good its a good sign. If they are brown, dull or even black your substate is toxic af.
3. Do as many water changes per week as you can.

 

[BigWave]

Its quite ironic to me most of the new comers to the hobby hate on commercial substrates due to the price and want to be as cheap as possible thus re-creating their own soil. This soil then also needs to be capped so as to lock in all those nutrients. Its a glass box and the water literally goes everywhere. Seeps down into the substrate and those nutrients will come to the surface no matter what. Lets not factor in the cost to make one of these soils. All the ingredients add up to about the same as a commercial substrate would cost.

 

[Count Krunk]

If I'm going low tech its mushroom compost sifted, capped with .5-.75" of sand. That's worked very well for me. I have a 20g long that's getting filled up with blue dream shrimp.

Noteworthy, i use rodi water.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Its quite ironic to me most of the new comers to the hobby hate on commercial substrates due to the price and want to be as cheap as possible thus re-creating their own soil. This soil then also needs to be capped so as to lock in all those nutrients. Its a glass box and the water literally goes everywhere. Seeps down into the substrate and those nutrients will come to the surface no matter what. Lets not factor in the cost to make one of these soils. All the ingredients add up to about the same as a commercial substrate would cost.

I’ll agree to disagree. Your 100% right that the DIY soil is desirable to a newcomer as a way to circumvent the pricey soil. The problem is the mounds of misinformation and unrealistic expectations. I was honestly one of those people and I failed in the beginning too because I had zero clue what I was doing. Now that I have mineralizing down pat its easy and I can make a batch for a fraction of the cost of a bag of AS. But for me it’s not just cost, I enjoy the process and seeing the results. I only ever saw dirted tanks as low tech experiments and I was tired of the monotony of the simple boring setups. AS has its disadvantages as well, it’s all about the effort you put into the tank, there’s no magic setup that’s fool proof and husbandry free.

OP’s setup will eventually settle, but it’s going to be a “hot” minute before that’s the case as it currently sits.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Take a look at this btw as @BigWave already mentioned: Mineralized soil planted aquariums

 

[Firestorm]

The tank has been set up 8 days ago. There is no point to discuss what I could have done, at this point. I am familiar with soil mineralization, and have done it in the past via this method How-To: Mineralized Soil Substrate, by Aaron Talbot

However, I did not mineralize the soil (for the most part) for this tank. I did have a small amount of mineralized soil that I included in the mix, but for the most part, it is not mineralized.

 

[BigWave]

I wouldnt worry about it. Check plants from time to time. It will eventually stabalize. If indeed the water becomes toxic its as easy as re-doing the tank the right way.