Journal Recovering from disaster: My 120P journey.

[bradquade]

in the end, I was just over it and did a reset.

I had a really hard time initiating the reset because I didn't anyone to think I was ignoring their advice. You need to make the hard call based on what you're seeing day to day though and that's why I moved forward with the reset. I still don't think the pictures I post show how bad the algae truly is in the tank. Hopefully round 2 goes smoother and I can have some nice pictures to post over the next couple months.

 

[BenB]

I had a really hard time initiating the reset because I didn't anyone to think I was ignoring their advice.

In the end, its your tank, and if you're unhappy, you should do what you want. I think people get it. We've all been there.

Now, get that S**t back going... I want to see that field of parkeris

 

[bradquade]

Replanting took a long time since I had to clean every individual stem. It is done though and the tank isn't looking bad. The plants generally seem happy outside of the algae. It's still puzzling me why the algae is so aggressive. I forgot how nice it is to plant in BDBS . I always have stray roots poking up when planting in soil, but with BDBS you can just tweeze them into the substrate without issue. Having a uniformly colored substrate is nice as well. Overall, I'm happy with the switch to BDBS just for the planting and substrate color.





Following the replanting I dosed NPK, trace, and remineralized to get the water in a good place for the plants as outlined below.

30 PPM Ca from Calcium sulfate dihydrate
10 PPM Mg from Magnesium sulfate Heptahydrate
20 PPM NO3 from potassium nitrate
6 PPM PO4 from potassium phosphate monobasic
26 PPM K from potassium sulfate and the other potassium salts.
0.225 PPM Fe+micros from an old trace mix that I have on hand from an older Burr740 recipe

I'll maintain the daily dosing of NPK+trace using the dosing pump resulting in weekly totals of 34NO3-10PO4-44K , but I'm considering adjusting down or switching back to larger water changes since I feel like the current dosing is a little aggressive.

I added the third light onto the tank again since I want to give the plants solid lighting and lower light didn't seem to make a difference with respect to algae growth. The settings are the lowest setting on one channel and 30% on the blue channel. With these settings the tank looks less yellow and it's my preferred spectrum. I also turned up my CO2 a little bit to make sure it's solid. The drop checkers in the front left and right corners were turning yellow right when the lights normally turn on, so it should be sufficient.



Everything should be in order now. I'm expecting a short cycle and some algae growth since the substrate is completely new, but we'll see soon enough how it goes. Wish me luck!

 

[techman81]

Any root tabs in the BDBS ?

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

It looks good! I'd say keep the lights at ~50 PAR for the first week or so, just so plants can establish roots and bacteria can get a foothold before algae.
Nutrient levels look great to start a tank. With rich water column dosing, stable good CO2, and medium light, you should be algae-free

 

[bradquade]

Any root tabs in the BDBS?

I've never used root tabs with BDBS before and have had some pretty stellar growth from most plants. That includes stems, carpets, crypts, swords, Eriocaulons, etc. As long as the water column has what it needs, most plants can make do. I'm happy to share some pics of my old BDBS tanks so you can get an idea of what plants are okay with no substrate fertilization. You can also check out the journals from Naturescapes_Rocco, Greggz (you might have to go back to his plantedtank.net journal since he's using soil at the moment), and Burr740. I don't think they use root tabs with their BDBS and grow really nice plants.

I'd say keep the lights at ~50 PAR for the first week

This is a situation where it would be nice to have a PAR meter. I have no idea what my light level is and it would be helpful to know where I am. I still have my lights raised 28" over the substrate, so the light is much lower than it was when I first cycled the tank. If I see anything out of the ordinary happening, light will be the first thing I modify.

 

[MrJG]

I used the Photone app for iOS with full spectrum led profiles unlocked (~$7 lifetime) to do a rough par map of my tank pre-flood at a few different power levels.
Did a good bit of reading and consensus seems that it’s around +-10 par vs a meter so I figured it was better than not doing one at all. Followed their directions to make a diy diffuser.

Only problem being you’d have to ziplock bag your phone to get substrate measurements.

 

[techman81]

I'm happy to share some pics of my old BDBS tanks so you can get an idea of what plants are okay with no substrate fertilization. You can also check out the journals from Naturescapes_Rocco, Greggz (you might have to go back to his plantedtank.net journal since he's using soil at the moment), and Burr740

Oh yeah, I'm well aware of their tanks and especially how @Naturescapes_Rocco doses. I was just curious if you were using them for the mental note as I watch how things go for you. I think we all get a bit invested in following other's journals.

 

[bradquade]

I used the Photone app for iOS

I wonder how well the app works for Android given that there is so much more diversity in Android phone cameras. Maybe I can give it a try and compare to my wife's iPhone just to see. If I never update my journal again, it's because my wife saw me sticking her iPhone in my tank.

 

[Koan]

I wonder how well the app works for Android given that there is so much more diversity in Android phone cameras

Good discussions here:

Thread 'Photone App'

Aug 12, 2024

Interesting new blog post about the Photone app update available for Android with a new method of utilizing the camera sensor (as opposed to the built-in ambient light sensor). They claim far greater accuracy.

https://growlightmeter.com/improved-measurement-accuracy-for-android/
Exciting Update: Improved Measurement Accuracy for All Android Devices

• *Ci*
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Equipment Discussions

Post in thread 'PAR meter using iPhone / Android APP - does it work?'

Mar 22, 2024

My apologies to everyone! I made a simple paper diffuser per @FrankZ instructions, and the results are now correct!

It is helpful to stress the importance of the diffuser again, as this is probably the most important contributor to measurement errors using a phone camera for PAR measurement.

I am also referring to the other forum, where posts on PAR apps nearly all focus on spectrum but do not address the more important issue of the optical paths of radiation.

PAR meter apps, android and iOS

Anyone use an app to measure PAR? Or been thinking about trying one out? https://migrolight.com/blogs/grow-light-news/par-meter-apps-compared-for-accuracy#:~:text=The%20PAR%20meter%20app%20by,for%20this%20grow%20light%20spectrum.

www.ukaps.org

So let me explain.

Light that...

• Yugang

• 

 

[BenB]

I wonder how well the app works for Android given that there is so much more diversity in Android phone cameras. Maybe I can give it a try and compare to my wife's iPhone just to see. If I never update my journal again, it's because my wife saw me sticking her iPhone in my tank.

Actually, a couple of us tested it. @Yugang started a great thread and then I did some comparisons with my Galaxy S23+ at post #55 HERE It works pretty good. Use a filter.

Ha! and of course Koan beat me to it.

 

[Koan]

 

[techman81]

Well; contrary to the results of others with Android phones, my attempts at using the Photone app on my Google Pixel were less than stellar (and I didn't like putting my phone in the aquarium either) so I took a chance on this inexpensive (relatively) Aquarium Par Meter and have been happy with it so far.

 

[bradquade]

my attempts at using the Photone app on my Google Pixel were less than stellar (and I didn't like putting my phone in the aquarium either)

I also have a Google Pixel and I thought it would work poorly because it's a relatively uncommon phone. My results were okayish using a paper diffuser. My lights are on 1%/30% at 28" from substrate and the Photone app said 95 PAR at substrate. The published PAR data suggests 75 PAR at 30" for 1%/1%, so the data looks somewhat reasonable at first glance. The PAR measurements at other distances seemed okay as well. The issue for me is that I have 3 lights in a row and the published PAR data is for 1 light. I have a strong feeling the Photone app is underestimating by a decent margin. I think the values from the app can serve as a baseline for future adjustment, but I shouldn't go around telling people the PAR values in the tank are what the app says.

 

[BenB]

Just asking,.... did you also calibrate your phone for the plastic bag?

If you're that curious, you can always go online and rent one for a few days like I did. I rented it for like 4 days because I thought I'd do different things. I also didn't know when I'd get to use it, but honestly, as soon as it came in, I was on it. It only takes a second. While you have it, you could also test it next to your phone. If they are similar, you know you can rely on your phone in the future.

 

[bradquade]

did you also calibrate your phone for the plastic bag?

I checked under a few lights with and without the bag just to see how much the bag changed the readings. There wasn't a major difference so I didn't do any actual calibration.



The tank is looking really clean and the free pieces of algae that hitchhiked back in with the plants turned white and died. There's a little bit of fuzzy algae growth on some of the leaves that were completely covered before the swap, but that is expected since those leaves are starting to degrade and that's sufficient to feed some algae growth. Hopefully this isn't a sign that the issues will get worse with time. There are two other significant changes to the tank that make me happy and one weird issue I'm seeing.

1) I complained previously that there was a persistent surface film that I could not get rid of ever since the algae problems started. It's been three days since I added water to the tank and the surface is completely clean even after turning off the skimmer overnight. Surface films usually pop up in times when my tanks are doing poorly, so this is very encouraging. The tank is actually behaving like its clean.

2) The TDS in the tank is much lower than it was with the soil. After switching to RO, the lowest TDS I remember seeing after remineralizing/front loading was 220 PPM and before the day of the substrate swap it was nearly 300 PPM. Today the TDS was 175 PPM with the exact same dosing in the tank. It's really clear that something was being released by the substrate into the water column and that is no longer an issue.

3) I added a few big pond snails and ramshorn snails into the tank. They all have been climbing out of the water or sitting on the bottom in their shells. I removed them and put them in my other tanks and they're moving around. I wonder what's causing them to be this uncomfortable in the 120P. From Thursday to Friday the TDS in the tank went from 7 to 22 PPM with nothing added except the substrate, so maybe the BDBS is releasing something that they don't like or maybe I didn't clean out the bleach well enough. Either way, I changed the water again today just to be safe and to get myself into a weekly routine. Water changing only took 25 minutes in total because I didn't have to spend time cleaning a ton of algae. It was amazing.

 

[bradquade]

View attachment PXL_20260218_235736282~2.mp4
The water is clearer. The new growth is starting to be the color I'd expect. The pearling is more intense than I've seen in a long time. There is minimal algae growth. It seems like the substrate swap was exactly what the tank needed. I'm finally enjoying looking at the tank again and I'm excited to see how it changes over the next few weeks as the plants fully adapt to the new conditions.

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

Let's go! So glad it's working out so far. Worth the effort, saved yourself a lot of headache!

 

[bradquade]

It's been just over a week since the substrate swap so I figured it would be a good time for some updates and some comments on how specific plants are responding to the changes in the tank.





The plants overall are coloring up nicely and starting to put out some solid looking growth. I adjusted the light spectrum so it has the color I prefer and some of the improvement is coming from that change, but the majority is improved plant health. The algae still isn't growing outside of some old growth and that was easily dealt with by trimming. It doesn't seem to be on the new growth at all while the glass and substrate remain clean despite increased light intensity. It also seems like the rate I'm seeing new leaves come out is faster as well, but its still too early to say for sure.


Rotala macrandra 'mini pink' is finally showing why it has that name. I guess my tank conditions were just bad before and that's why it was yellow. I actually threw away for the majority of the bush I had grown because I didn't like how yellow it was and now I'm disappointed because it's earning a permanent spot in the tank. The Rotala 'singapore' is also the right color now and is somwhat visible in the back left portion of the image.


Old Hygrophila 'compact' leaves are melting away and the new leaves are coming in flat with a nice reddish hue. This is how I remember it growing so this ones back to normal.


Bacopa salzmanii 'purple' is growing with more color now, but you can see some of the new leaves are whitish. This is also one plant that still has some algae on the old growth.


Ludwigia ovalis 'skeleton' is finally showing it's orangish color. The old leaves were also folded over on the ends (it's visible on the second set of leaves on the stem at the top of the picture) and now they're perfectly flat.


Rotala mexicana 'Goias' is growing a bit pink on the growing tips and isn't stunting anymore. It's also growing horizontally how its supposed to. I love this plant and look forward to seeing how it looks when its a full bush.


Samolus is actually growing and the new growth is pink like it's supposed to be. Every stem has put out at least one leaf this week, so the growth rate is closer to normal. I aggressively trimmed the algae-filled growth yesterday and it should keep getting better with more time and trims.


Limnophila wilsonii is one of the weirdly behaving groups and I'm not sure what's going on here. The new growth looks stunted-ish and is very light colored. I would have guessed CO2 issues from the look, but the pH drop is 1.3 compared to degassed water, drop checkers are between green and yellow at lights on (almost yellow 1.5 hours into photo period), and the Hanna kit says 55 PPM CO2. CO2 shouldn't be an issue.



Limnophila aromatica 'Mini' (first pic) and Limnophila 'mini Vietnam' (second pic) have the same white growth on the growing tips. This seems to be a genus-specific issue and I don't think I've seen it before for any of these plants.


Hygrophila triflora is growing the expected color now and doesn't appear to be having any issues except for algae on the old growth. I probably will need to pull it up and remove all of the old leaves once it grows a bit more.


Ludwigia sp. 'red' is another plant that's behaving a little weird. The new growth is a better color than before, but it's a bit wrinkly and some of the stems look like they're going to stunt. Maybe it's another plant that requires more time to adapt to the new conditions.

Not much has changed with other plant groups and I'm hoping they start to improve or decline in the next week so I can decide what to do next. Especially the Didiplis diandra. I really like this plant and it's a little strange it isn't growing still. Maybe it was in such bad shape that it's taking more time to adapt and put out new growth. I can see some new side shoots growing on the old leaves and those should give me more direction on how to proceed.

 

[bradquade]

I haven't made any updates for a couple weeks because the positive changes in the tank only lasted 1 week before everything started getting crazy. This isn't unexpected because changing the substrate means all plants need to adapt to the new tank parameters and that can be pretty difficult when it's happening to every species in the tank. As a point of reference, it took almost 4 weeks for plants to begin growing well after I moved them from the 120P to the new 10g tanks and once they started growing, it took another 2-3 weeks for the algae to die off. I'm just now starting to get good growth on a few different species and it's been almost 8 weeks since they were transferred to the other tank. Something in the 120P was so wrong that the plants needed a lot of time to adapt and it's clear the same thing is happening since the substrate swap.


Here's how the tank is looking as of today. Some plants are growing really well and look great. Some are melting. Some are stagnant and growing algae. It's a mixed bag at the moment, but the species that are growing well tell me that the nutrient availability in the tank is fine and I just need to wait for everything to adapt.

I mentioned previously that many of the species in the tank turned pale and white approximately 1 week after the substrate swap. Initially, I was worried that my iron/manganese/calcium was too low, but I checked all of my math and nothing was incorrect. I decided to power through and keep dosing as planned and it's clear that some of the plants are actually recovering now. I put some white arrows next to the newest shoots and you can see that they are nice and green while the rest of the growing tips look really pale. I've been trying to rationalize why this would be happening and my only explanation is that many plants were getting their divalent cations from the substrate and they are not well equipped for foliar intake. I believe this is pretty universal across the majority of species in the tank and it's part of why the tank is struggling.


Another thing contributing to the plant struggles is how the plants are rooting. Most of them are rooting very slowly, just like when they were in aquasoil. I was worried by this at first, but I noticed that the ones growing best are very quickly putting out aerial roots and side shoots only on the growth that came out since the substrate swap. Notice that the new growth on this plant has aerial roots, while there are few roots below that. This tell me that something about the tank before the substrate swap was really hard on the plants and they need time to adapt.


Below is another interesting look at what some of the plants are going through. Once they turned white, the main growth point just died. It seems like the plants are struggling so much with foliar uptake that they are aborting their old growth to focus on putting out side shoots that are better adapted to the new conditions.


It's annoying seeing this happen and having algae grow again, but I'm not too stressed out. The conditions have changed so dramatically that I need to be patient while the adaptation happens. Given the timeline for the 10g tanks, I'll probably wait another 2-3 weeks to update again unless something dramatically changes before then.