Help Looking for a pump to transfer RO water from basement to first floor

[MKEnovice]

Title, basically. My RO unit with a storage barrel is in the basement. I'm looking for a small quiet pump that can transfer water about 20 feet head height. I am looking for something quiet, compact and powerful.

I asked ChatGPT and it recommended the Tunze Turbelle water pump. It sounded great on paper, with 21 ft of head height. I ordered it from BRS and when it arrived, I realized it's a replacement pump for the Tunze Osmolator 3. It does not have its own power supply.

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

I am looking for something quiet, compact and powerful.

Choose two!

I've been using these Diaphragm Pumps for over a year, in two locations, for weekly water changes.

I needed to move 70 gallons with one pump, and about 25 gallons with the other one every week, if not more. They've been great, and pump from one floor up to the next. They take 1/2" tubing.

 

[hamfist]

Have you considered a water butt pump. I have used these for years to pump RO water from my 250 litre storage tank to the aquarium. Very easy to use as you can just dump them into the tank as and when you want to use them.
SOmething like this .....

Submersible Clean Water Butt Pump with Float Switch, 40L/min, 350W

Get your garden thriving with our Submersible Clean Water Butt Pump - the perfect solution for effortlessly emptying water butts and keeping your plants hydrate

www.drapertools.com

THe float switch can be taped in place if you want to disable it.

 

[Pepere]

One thing to consider when looking at pumps. If you need to raise water 20 feet, you really do want a pump with more than 21 feet of head. A pump with 21 feet of head at 20 feet is going to have rather anemic flow.

Pumps will have a flow head curve. As the height you are requiring a pump to lift water increases the available flow if water falls off significantly…


Here we have pump head/ flow charts for various Taco circulators. The Taco 007 is probably the most commonly used circulator has a head of just under 10 feet. But if we look at 9 feet of head It flows at around 4 gallons per minute…. At 8 feet of head it flows 8 gpm, at 7 feet of head about 12 gpm.

One of the attractioons to the 007 is the relatively flat output of the curve as opposedto a steeper curve where flow drops off steeper with height.

Also, bear in mind that feet of head, or head loss does not only reflect height from water level in the feed tank when full…. Ie as your storage tank is pumped out of the holding tank your head you are pumping from will increase. Ie if it is a 33 gallon brute trash can in the basement and the waterline is 20 feet below where te outlet is, by the time you get near the bottom of the barrel you have added nearly 3 feet of head.

Head loss is also imposed by frictional losses for the length if the pipe and any fittings..

For example loss is typically given as so much reduction per 100 feet of pipe. A single fight angle fitting is the equivalent of adding 3 feet of tubing. 6 right angle fittings is the equivalent of 18 feet of tubing. Increasing tubing diameter significantly reduces frictional losses per 100 feet…

As a practical case in point I have an aquarium near floor height and drain it with a python into the bathtub. When the tank is full, the flow into the tub is fine. But as the water level gets within 8 inches of the level of the bathtub the flow drops to a trickle.

So your piping also increases the fuctional head loss you are trying to pump from.

Long and short if it you may well want a pump with more head capacity than 21 feet.

Looking at the specific pump you referenced, it does not have 21 feet of head. It actually has 20 feet 4 inches of head.

Reading the documentation it does not have a pump curve chart but states:


80 gph at 0 head, 21.9 gph at 78.8”.

How many gallons per hour flow do you think it is going to see at 20 feet of head?

Even 21 gallons per hour seems ridiculously low for refilling a tank. How many hours will you want to wait to refill 40 gallons of water in a 75 gallon aquarium?

This really highlights the incredible shortcomings of Artificial Large Language models. Chat GPT reccomended a pump that would be hopelessly under performing for your application. It simply recognized your input of 20 feet and chose a pump with feet of head just over 20 feet with absolutely no understanding of how feet of head impacts flow rates…

I will take real intelligence over artificial intelligence…

Would you rather have real coffee or coffee substitute? Postum anyone? Made from burnt wheat….?


Now is there really 20 feet from basement to tank on first floor?

Basements very typically are only 7 feet from floor to bottom of floor joists.. ad another for floor joists and flooring, then add maybe 5 fert to top of aquarium typically, my gut feeling is closer to 13 feet typically.. factor another 2 feet for plumbing frictional losses. 15 feet seems closer to the mark to me assuming the storage tanks being pumped from are pretty close to under your aquarium…

 

[JayP]

Choose two!

I've been using these Diaphragm Pumps for over a year, in two locations, for weekly water changes.
View attachment 13528
I needed to move 70 gallons with one pump, and about 25 gallons with the other one every week, if not more. They've been great, and pump from one floor up to the next. They take 1/2" tubing.

I use this as well, but I wouldn't descibe it as quiet. I'm considering switching to a submersible pond pump just for that reason. Otherwise, it works great pumping from the basement up to the first floor and through 75 ft of hose.

 

[GreggZ]

I've been using this one for about a decade now.

At my old house the lift was about 14 feet to just above the tank. It would pump up 70 gallons in about 12 minutes.

Now it's on the same floor and fills the tank in about 6 minutes.

Harbor Freight Pond Pump

 

[Koan]

highlights the incredible shortcomings of Artificial Large Language models. Chat GPT reccomended a pump that would be hopelessly under performing for your application. It simply recognized your input of 20 feet and chose a pump with feet of head just over 20 feet with absolutely no understanding

 

[MKEnovice]

Apologies for the delay in posting a reply, gentlemen. Horribly busy few weeks at work because of flu season.

Long and short if it you may well want a pump with more head capacity than 21 feet.

Thank you @Pepere for the detailed explanation and looking into the pump that I purchased.

Now is there really 20 feet from basement to tank on first floor?

Again, apologies for this misrepresentation. I chose 20 feet to account for the head height of likely 14 feet plus the considerable horizontal distance of around 50 feet to the tank itself. Regardless, that pump is out of the picture and I’ll be sending it back to BRS minus a stocking fee.

I will be buying the Diaphragm pump that @techman81 and @Naturescapes_Rocco kindly suggested. But first I want to try this
AC Infinity Peristaltic Pump c Pump that I found on Amazon. It can go up to 200 ml/min which I think will work for me. I'll keep you updated.

While we are at this, can you tell me what RO system you are using? I'm looking to get either the BRS 5 stage one or the one from Waterbox. I don't think the Aquaticlife Life Twist in style is working for me.

 

[JayP]

While we are at this, can you tell me what RO system you are using? I'm looking to get either the BRS 5 stage one or the one from Waterbox. I don't think the Aquaticlife Life Twist in style is working for me.

I bought the 6 Stage Deluxe Plus 200 GPD from BRS and am super happy with it....but I bought it around Black Friday when it was on sale for $264. Not sure if i would pay the full price of $405 it's at now.

 

[gnatster]

While we are at this, can you tell me what RO system you are using?

I've been using RO-DI from Air, Water & Ice on and off since 2004. Replacing plumbed-in ones as I move. On my third one from them. Great customer service. Write to them with your requirements, and they'll put a system together that suits you.

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

I've been using two of these systems for 5 years now in two locations in my home. Some friends have them, too. I produce about 120gal of RO weekly that I use for my water changes. Tap is ~300TDS, RO water comes out between 1-3TDS.

People don't realize how much of a scam RO water systems are. As long as you have good water pressure, and understand how these systems operate, you can even build your own system for 2/3rds the cost of the one I use. They're not mysterious, they're stupid simple and most are wildly overpriced.

Here's the gist of RO systems:​

All an RO system is, is an RO membrane with a tap water input, and two outputs. One output is pure water, the other is waste. You need a flow limiter on the waste line, and an Auto Shut Off valve or similar on the incoming line. That's technically all that is needed, besides a storage unit (either a pressure/bladder tank, or a barrel with a float valve).

However, without pre-filtering the incoming tap, your membrane would get destroyed quickly. So, most RO systems have 2 or 3 filters for prefiltering: a Sediment filter, a carbon filter, and a second carbon filter is the most common setup.

That's all these systems are; 10" housings for 3 pre filters, a 50 or 100gallon-per-day RO membrane housing, a flow limiter on the wastewater line, and an auto shutoff valve for when your tank or barrel reaches "full".

The express water RO5DX has 3 prefilters, a 50GPD RO membrane housing, the autoshutoff valve, the flow limiter, and even comes with a pressure tank to store ~4gal of pure RO water with enough pressure to use the small included RO water faucet. For under $200.

Many people don't know this, but the more GPD on your RO membrane, the worse the ratio of pure:waste water created. a 50GPD wastes less water than a 100GPD, and often has purer results. 50-100GPD are pretty comparable, though.

All of these sytems are plug and play. You can mix and match, create your own, etc.

So what I'm saying is, it's not a mystery how these things work! If you or anyone has a question, let me know -- I'm a nut for water quality and storage/setup.

 

[Unexpected]

I use this on a Kasa smart plug.
This high-flow 4500 GPH sump pump can handle flooding in your basement, pool, or garden with ease. Check it out now!

https://a.co/d/3XGcKR6

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

How far vertical does it pump your water?

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

I've been using this one for about a decade now.

At my old house the lift was about 14 feet to just above the tank. It would pump up 70 gallons in about 12 minutes.

Now it's on the same floor and fills the tank in about 6 minutes.

Harbor Freight Pond Pump

Hey @GreggZ, what's the smallest outlet diameter? Or, what hose size do you use?