Journal Ben's Plant Pharm

[BenB]

On front loading. Water change volume plays such a huge role in how much is in our water. I dont like front loading the whole week. But when doing big water changes you have to front load most of it or else there too much drop in nutrient levels. Gregg is front loading the week but also changing 70-80% iirc. I did that too for a couple years. It works pretty good. But I found saving a little for mid week works better

For the best consistency (thats what we're going for here) if youre doing 50%, front load 50% of the weeks total. Then do 2 more doses of 25% through the week. Its what Ive been doing for a couple years now, best routine Ive ever tried. And its only macros that need this consistency. Micros are fine 3x week, or daily, regardless of wc volume

Yeah, that's what I've always done. I'd do a water change. Then I'd redose my tank giving it a bit extra. The problem this time around was that I wasn't dosing enough after that, and I was bottoming out.

Interesting discovery this week. I was going to make a separate post, but it seems appropriate here. I dosed my 21/7 after my water change last Sunday, and then out of curiosity I tested on Wednesday. I was already down to 10 and 1. (Or as best as you can read the tests) I knew I wasn't going to make it to the weekend. I wasn't sure how Greg made it a week with 30 and 10 on a 70% change, if I can't make it a week with a 50% water change. Then I realized, Greg has fish. I do not. The fish pee keeps his levels from dropping as fast. So I'm going to try a 30 and 10 this week.

I won't be surprised if at some point I'm not back to what I've normally done, which is more what you describe above. However, if I could have luck with front loading like Greg does, it would be so much easier. I really need to go skim your old journal, but it's so so long now.

The only thing wrong with your tank is being inconsistent and under dosed. You starved the plants, then co2 ran out. The plants became unhappy now there's some algae troubles.

Yeah, I had a perfect storm which isn't helpful when you're trying to figure things out.

Green water can be from substrate disturbance. You never want to disturb the substrate very much unless youre about to do a water change. Always do a water change after disturbing it. My main Dutch will get it in a heartbeat even yanking just a few stems. My journal here has a post where Id pulled like 7 Penthorum stems to sell. Boom green water. Kill that with a UV and then dont mess with the sub much until wc day

Get the plants happy and stay consistent. Keep things clean and any bad leaves removed. Thats all you gotta do and GDA will go away

I get the GW after vacuuming the gravel while doing the water change. I'll figure it out. One thing at a time.

PS. I'm not done with you about the Garden Style Scape and the AGA. I just haven't gotten back to it yet.

 

[BenB]

I'd highly recommend automated daily dosing for micros! Super easy and simple.'

I front load macros in all of my tanks, and have daily dose micros in all of them, too. I use the Chihros dosing systems. You can get the two-head system for $90-$100. Totally worth it to have many years of daily micro dosing without needing to worry (I've been running mine for over 2 years now without any issues). I use CSM+B from GLA (but might switch in the future? Seems to work just fine for me). I dose around 0.04 to 0.075ppm Fe daily with these auto dosers. I have to replenish the micro solution once every 1.5 months on my really large tank, and once every 200 days on my smaller tanks

That looks much easier than other dosing systems I've seen. Going to pass this time though until I have a bigger tank some day. That's a lot of effort for a little 60p.

 

[Burr740]

I really need to go skim your old journal, but it's so so long now.

Ya know Im always flattered when I hear folks say this. And there is indeed some really good stuff in it, not just from me but others who chimed in on things

But also I sorta cringe because my opinions have changed on a lot of things since then. For specific questions Id rather people just ask me about it now. Like everyone else I learn new things all the time and evolve as I go.

 

[BenB]

I've never had the gaskets you use on your CO2 regulator, but last time I got a refill, I bought some.
Bottle lasted 1 month. Ugh.... I guess I didn't have it tight enough and those refills are $60 now. FML So much for gaskets.
I put my backup bottle on and double checked it with soap this time.

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

I've never had the gaskets you use on your CO2 regulator, but last time I got a refill, I bought some.
Bottle lasted 1 month. Ugh.... I guess I didn't have it tight enough and those refills are $60 now. FML So much for gaskets.
I put my backup bottle on and double checked it with soap this time.

Ive been there done it twice, once were it wasnt tight enough and the second when i left a bubble counter fully open after taking a tank off the system. I use nylon gaskets. I'm not sure what you use but I haven't had any issues but you have to make sure you tighten them enough.

 

[BenB]

A quick update, mostly for my benefit.

I'm doing the algae struggle and have changed gears again. GregZ type dosing didn't work for me. I just grew brown sludge and some minimal hair algae. So I'm gone back to more traditional dosing. I've also switched to Burrfertz (micros), as I have started calling them.

I changed filters. I had a white Osae Biostyle Thermo filter which was too big and as the white collected algae, it looked bad. I now have a black/grey Oase Biostyle 20. Less water movement, so I can enjoy the pearling more and the dark color shouldn't show algae.

Lastly, ironically, I commented in another journal here that I increased my KH to 2 before a water change to prevent pH crash. Something I've had a problem with in the past. After the water change my KH is 1. Then after a day the substrate absorbes the remaining bicarb and my KH returns to 0. I realized that the substrate isn't going to absorbe KH indefinitely. So I tested my KH and it was 3. I also have a small piece of Seriyu stone in the tank which leaks KH. I'm going to keep testing, but I'm thinking I probably don't have to put in bicarb before a water change any more.

 

[Art]

Thanks for the update, @BenB. Looking forward to seeing how the changes work for you.

When you say, @GreggZ's type dosing, do you mean front loading?

On the KH level thing, everyone has their take and they are entitled to it. I will share some of my thoughts with the intention of just sharing my experience, not in changing your mind.

Although it is not hard to measure KH, there is variability in our interpretations of results and in the margin of error of our hobby-grade test kits. This is especially true at low levels. IMHE, I have found that we tend to believe we have more KH than we really do in the water.

I have also found, and personally experienced, that soil substrates suck KH out of the water at a surprising rate. Many people think they have a certain KH, and perhaps they do on day 1, but a few days later it may be half of that or less. I was running with zero KH after about 3 days.

When I decided to give up trying to keep KH up and let it go to a perceived zero, I began to rethink my concern with pH stability in our aquarium settings. I was pumping (and still do) heavy CO2 into the aquarium and my pH swings 1.4 - 1.5 daily. I have more of a swing right after I do a water change because my tap water sits at 7.5+.

Never had the pH crash that other report and we've read about. No one that I've worked with, even some who initially thought their current disaster was a pH crash, have really dealt with a pH crash. In every case, a catastrophic event was caused by something else, not the pH swing.

In some cases, it was a bad heater. In others, overdosed CO2. One was a significant spike in chloramines in the water after a change in the water management company.

Again, not suggesting you change your mind nor that your experience wasn't a pH crash. Just trying to, hopefully, make you more comfortable with running low KH. I can tell you I am now able to grow some species I wasn't able to before.

 

[BenB]

When you say, @GreggZ's type dosing, do you mean front loading?

Yeah, obviously it works well for him, but my tank started getting worse right away. If I had spent time to tweak it, I might could have gotten it to work for me, but I didn't want to mess with it. Decided to go back to my 2 algae mess instead of the 4 algae mess. Front loading seems like it would be so much easier though, and one day in the future I'd love to revisit it.

When I decided to give up trying to keep KH up and let it go to a perceived zero, I began to rethink my concern with pH stability in our aquarium settings. I was pumping (and still do) heavy CO2 into the aquarium and my pH swings 1.4 - 1.5 daily. I have more of a swing right after I do a water change because my tap water sits at 7.5+.

Never had the pH crash that other report and we've read about. No one that I've worked with, even some who initially thought their current disaster was a pH crash, have really dealt with a pH crash. In every case, a catastrophic event was caused by something else, not the pH swing.

In my case, the tank crashed hard on 2 previous new set ups right after a water change. Everything in the tank died twice. All the plants turned white. It ended up in a 4-5 years absence from the hobby. My tank is a 0 KH system, and I'm good with that. It's at water change where I had been adjusting it. Before the water change I'd bump it up to 2. After the water change, I assumed it was 1. Slowly the substrate takes it back to 0.

So the 3 reading was a chance discovery when it occurred to me that my substrate wasn't going to absorb the bicarb forever. Works for me. Now I don't have to do the bump anymore which is one less step in my maintenance.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Front loading seems like it would be so much easier though, and one day in the future I'd love to revisit it.

Don’t give up on front loading. I too, failed with Greggz style dosing. I will not knock it though, it works for him. I decided to front load and reset when I didn’t a water change, dosing the same thing every change (25-5-15). My issue, is I cannot stay consistent with my WC schedule. I’m usually closer to 2 weeks before I can do a WC, but lately I’ve really fallen off. But ideally, between 1 and two weeks I’m doing my WC/maintenance. You just gotta find what works for you, front loading takes the stress of worrying about dosing off my shoulders. Micros I do twice a week.

 

[BenB]

I decided to front load and reset when I didn’t a water change, dosing the same thing every change (25-5-15).

This is cool. That was another issue I had with trying front loading. I wasn't sure which way to tweak it. In the end, it was just easier to leave it. I bet if I read his journal more and the one over on TPT I'll get some ideas of how he landed on the right numbers. However, a second issue with tweaking that is that most people have fish, and I don't. The nutrients replaced by fish are a bit of a variable. I dosed mine lower than Greg and you, but as I now think about this, the answer might have been that I needed to dose higher. Hmmmmm.....

 

[GreggZ]

This is cool. That was another that I had with trying front loading. I wasn't sure which way to tweak it. In the end, it was just easier to leave it. I bet if I read his journal more and the one over on TPT I'll get some ideas of how he landed on the right numbers. However, a second issue with tweaking that is that most people have fish, and I don't. The nutrients replaced by fish are a bit of a variable. I dosed mine lower than Greg and you, but as I now think about this, the answer might have been that I needed to dose higher. Hmmmmm.....

You might be on to something. Your tank with no fish is different with mine with a pretty full fish stocking.

Keep in mind the idea is to keep nutrient levels stable. With no fish a better plan might be to dose 1/2 of the weekly dosing right after a water change, then two additional doses during the week. That is what @Burr740 does and clearly it works well for him.

And keeping on a regular water change schedule is very important. Not only how often, but how much is changed. If you copy someone's dosing but are on a different water schedule and changing a different amount of water, then you are not dosing the same thing. This has to do with accumulation.

I wrote about this in my journal here.

Accumulation....what is it and why does it matter.

When I decided to front end load I spent weeks testing my levels with different methods. I would take readings right after a water change, then one mid week, then another before the next water change. I really wanted to understand how the levels were fluctuating during the week.

Also keep in mind in my tank the fish and feeding of the fish is creating nutrients. So when I front end load the tank is taking up nutrients at about the same rate that the tank is creating them during the week.

Here is a link to another post from journal I made about front end loading

.Front End Loading


All that being said dosing is only one piece of the puzzle. Sometimes we blame dosing for issues when it's actually something completely different. Tank maintenance, substrate health, CO2 injection, flow, light levels, etc. all come into play. If you get everything else right, a tank can get by on a fairly wide range of dosing. The plants will adapt. They may display different forms as they adjust (good or bad) which is normal. Some plants will look quite different at higher and lower dosing levels. For me I have always found that dosing too little is worse than dosing too much.

But in the end you need to find what works best in YOUR tank. And it does take trial and error and a willingness to experiment.

Good luck and I look forward to following along and seeing where things go from here.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

 

[Koan]

If only that didn't look quite so much like Elon...

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

If only that didn't look quite so much like Elon...

And you ruined it

 

[Koan]

Can't un-see it

 

[BenB]

So interesting.
To recap: My tap KH is 0 and GH is 0 (practically) I usually put a tiny amount of bicarb in the water just before a water change to stabalize the pH and then after the water change, I top off Ca, Mg, and K
Three days ago I tested my water and my KH was 3. I did a 50% water change. I did not any add bicarb or Ca, Mg or K.
I expected my KH to be 1-2 and my GH to be half of what it normally is which is 10-11.
I tested everything today and KH was 3 and GH was 11.
I think my little Seriyu stone is spewing out more stuff than I want right now while I'm trying to figure things out. It will be coming out next water change. Its cool. Room for more plants!

 

[Art]

I'm currently using Seiryu stone for the first time. I'm surprised how much it puts out into the water. I've had to adjust the size of water change to maintain things where I want them.

 

[BenB]

I'm currently using Seiryu stone for the first time. I'm surprised how much it puts out into the water. I've had to adjust the size of water change to maintain things where I want them.

I've had it before, and it leaked KH Ca and Mg then, but I don't remember it being as bad as from this one little rock I have.

Also, I really want to grow some of the new stuff we have these days like the Eriocalulons and they don't like my rock.

 

[Art]

I'll be removing mine soon.

I really tried to be an aquascaper and the stone is really beautiful. However, I've accepted I'm more of an aquatic gardener and my main priority, at the moment anyway, is growing plants.

 

[BenB]

I really tried to be an aquascaper and the stone is really beautiful. However, I've accepted I'm more of an aquatic gardener and my main priority, at the moment anyway, is growing plants.

This is so much me also. I really want to have a nice aquascape, but I just love growing plants. I'm more of a farmer.