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Hypothesis Ramosior & the Droop
*This was an experiment I ran back in 2020 that I still believe has some helpful qualities to it. Especially as more and more people get their hands on plants such as Florida and Sunset. I state many times that I might not be right, this was just something that worked FOR ME. I show the pictures of the progress each plant made. It would be fun to get feed back on how you guys are taking care of this species in your own ways. I do plan on owning both of these plants eventually and have every intention to run this again. I hope you guys enjoy this!
I’d Like to first start off by simply saying that this was just an experiment that I decided to test out. At the time of this experiment I was in the hobby for about 1 year and 7 months: Take this info as you wish. I am not claiming this to be a solution of any sort, there are people that have been around a lot longer than I have that might have a better hypothesis or understanding. When I first began to put thought into this I thought to myself “No way, you’re wrong … but what if you’re right?” (Yes it was one of those kind of things) This is just my theory on what might cause the infamous droop syndrome so many have experienced.
The motivation for this small experiment was because there’s no worse feeling than looking into your tank and seeing your beloved, favorite, and typically expensive (at the time) Ramosior species with drooping leaves. I remember seeing this happen to my first round of Florida I owned, one stem had drooping leaves and I slowly watched it dwindle away. I thought “No big deal it was just an unhealthy stem” not ever expecting to lose every single stem with in the next 3 days. Yes… a total of 20+ stems GONE just like that. Not to mention I paid about $110 for 8 stem back then. haha. They stuck around for about 3 months before catching the ‘droop’.
So what am I talking about for those that aren’t familiar: With Ramosior species there seems to be a time where the plant will droop its leaves, in my case it started with one stem, then 2 more… then 3 more… then, they all melted away without a trace. literally. I woke up, checked the tank and $110 was gone before my eyes. From discussing with others that have had this issue no body can seem to put a finger on what exactly it could be. (Maybe someone today has figured it out) Is there a TIMELINE on when to expect it? No. Could certain SUBSTRATES cause it? Possibly. Co2 issues? Dosing issues? Some strange disease that develops with in the plants? Who knows. All I can say is here’s what I came up with.
7 months ago I decided to give Florida a try again. I started with 5 Stems and focused on trying to keep them as healthy as possible as long as possible, I was giving myself 3 months to see if they get the Droop:
Original 5 Stems: November 14th 2019
Here is what those 5 stems grew to in 2 months January 16th 2020
That same bunch 3 months after planting: February 21st 2020
Right around that time I started to work with Rotala Ramosior Sunset which i was told was a much more pickier plant than Florida. (As you can see in the last picture) At this point I was going on 4 months with Florida and hadn’t lost a single stem to melting or to drooping leaves. Sunset was around for about 3 weeks and as you can tell by the picture was in rough shape.
(Here is where it got interesting for me)
Not really knowing what made Florida stick around so long I started back tracking on how I was caring for the plant. Everything in my tank at this time was being Topped, I would trim the plant and toss the bottoms. This is where I stumbled on something… As I started to focus more on growing Sunset I noticed something about Sunset that was different from my Florida. Florida was being topped once a week. Sunset was never topped or trimmed, I just wanted it to grow. I decided to up root the Sunset and noticed that the bottom of the stems were black, Compared to the Florida which was whitish yellow. Unfortunately I don’t have pictures of them from this time (I know, this is why I’d be discredited in a legit lab lol) but this is where I noticed a difference. Keep this in mind. Here are pictures of the progress Sunset had when I decided to treat it just like Florida and top it once a week, sometimes even twice a week. Pay attention to the Sunset which is in the Center of the tank just to the left of Florida, then will end up to the far left.
February 22nd 2020
March 1st 2020
March 10th 2020
March 23rd 2020
March 30th 2020
April 9th 2020
At this time I decided to run a short experiment. Hoping it would show some results… Now I did only use Florida for this test, however keep in mind that I still continue to top my Sunset once a week.
So let’s dive back into the black rotting at the bottom of the Sunset before topping it. I noticed that Florida never dealt with this issue because I was always topping all of my plants at least once a week, that was just my maintenance routine. When I planted sunset I didn’t touch it for almost 3 weeks thinking it would grow but it was struggling more than anything. Pale color, Not many side shoots, and overall didn’t look healthy. As you can see from the picture above when I started topping it, it grew faster with 3–4 side shoots on each stem, had beautiful color, and looked healthy for the most part.
April 14th I set up a second tank with the exact same conditions I had in the tank pictured above. (I decided to use Millers Micro-complex instead of mixing my own micros: call it laziness) I took 3 sets of Florida, the first stems (Group 1) I didn’t top at all, second (Group 2) I would top only 3 times over the span of the experiment. Which was conducted over about a 6–7 week time frame. The last set (Group 3) I topped once a week. Here is why I think this is important for Ramosior Species.
Pay attention to how rotted the bottom of the stems are compared to the ones that were topped 3 times and the ones that were topped every week.
Below is Group 1 which was never topped through out the experiment:
Now here is the Second group. Again pay attention to the Bottoms, as well as size difference:
With group two I noticed some rotting towards the bottoms but overall they had decent growth and were much healthy than Group 1 by a long shot. Here’s a side by side comparison:
Now, Here is the growth of Group 3 which was topped every week during the length of the experiment:
Group 3 had thicker stems larger roots, and grew beautiful round leaves, better color and had no rotting at the bottom.
Here is a comparison between Group 2 and Group 3:
And finally, a picture of all groups: Left: Group 1 — Middle: Group 2 — Right: Group 3
*To also note, these were set up in a fairly new tank a the time. It was up and running for about 2 weeks before i threw the plants into the tank. There was a lot for them to adapt to for sure.
So what's the theory? Well, at the time i had Florida growing consistently for 7 months and not a single stem catching the dreaded Droop. (Nov. 14th — June 1st) Sunset had exploded for me at the time with more stems than I thought I’d be able to grow (More pic’s later) Now again, this is just a theory, so please keep that in mind. Working with Ramosior for these months I believe they enjoy rotting from the bottom up… why does that matter? Well, because they rot underneath the substrate, where you would never be able to notice it.
Ramosiors have an inner stem like core, it’s harder than the out side of the plant. If you take your finger nail and run it down the stem barely scratching the outer surface you will see this inner stem that I’m talking about… I’m honestly not sure what to call it. I believe this inner stem acts as a “membrane” for the plant… keeping it healthy. When rotting begins to occur at the bottom of the stem, these membrane like stems begin to rot as well not being able to keep the plant as healthy as possible. Avoid the Rot, Avoid the droop. So where does the droop come into play? I think where we are going wrong with these plants is trimming them and trying to propagate the tops as well as keeping the bottoms. Growing these plants out to be too tall, giving them the time to rot from the bottom.
When rotting occurs for too long, I believe the inner core becomes unhealthy and begins to rot behind the outer stem that we see. As we continue to propagate side shoots and tops from the already unhealthy bottoms, the inner core like stem continues to be unhealthy and rot… Eventually Leading to the drooping leaves which will then lead to stems melting. Now the only part I’m stuck on is why they would all decide to melt at the same time. Thinking back on when my Florida Drooped the first time, I never cut the stems, I was too afraid to. I would only cut side shoots and replant them. Which would make sense as to why they all melted at the same time. I was taking shoots off of an unhealthy plant (Think inner stem here) and planting it. All of my stems where unhealthy at that point… think of it as a disease almost. Once the main stem has it… so do the side shoots. Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing you can do about it. This would explain why even those that took the stems out of the tank and put them into another tank were still experiencing drooping right after one stem got it. If you experience a stem that droops, it’s only a matter of time before all of the others droop.
The conclusion? I truly believe that if you are able to keep the bottoms from rotting by continuously topping the Ramosior species (Florida, Sunset, Cramer) it could give you a very good chance of preventing the Droop Syndrome. Again, I’m no expert, I’m only speaking from experience here…and 7 months with out any drooping is twice as long as I was able to keep it the first time.
By no means am I saying this is the answer to this strange event… or that I’ve even come close to figuring it out. One thing is for sure, it grows really nice stems! for 6 weeks I’ve topped sunset every week. Here’s what it produced, mind you this is just out of my “farm” tank.
Now I had mentioned something way earlier in this post about how substrate may possibly matter when it comes to The Droop. I also mentioned how this was still an on going experiment. All of these stems were grown in Black Diamond Blasting sand and theres a theory out there that Ramosior Sunset doesn't do well in Aquasoil, so to be fair, I recently switched my main tank to Landens Aquasoil to test this with Sunset as well. With about a month into it being in Aquasoil it's not doing so bad. I plan on certainly updating this post after time goes on.
Now to conclude this, I stopped running this experiment as I got busier with work during summer months and was not doing much husbandry to the tank. With fresh soil, few water changes, and little care, algae crept in and I ended up moving the sunset to the "farm tank" getting it healthy and selling it all to focus on more of a "Dutch style" tank at the time. Both of my entire groups of Florida and sunset were eventually sold off and never seen again in this tank. haha.
This was a very fun thing to perform with two amazing plants in this hobby. they are both stunning when grown healthy. This was my second time caring for Florida and my first time growing sunset. I was lucky enough to keep Florida around for almost 2 years and sunset for a solid 14 months. I had no issues trimming either plant using the "topping" method, and even moved them around frequently. Over gown farm tanks with them in it and had them survive that tank with almost 2 weeks of no water changes... I never had an issue with either.
Now, this could have certainly been luck, or maybe at the time I was too green to know that I was actually doing something simple or "standard" for these species. I never wanted to be right - I just wanted to help others keep these plants around a whole lot longer than I was able to the first time. There's nothing like getting to show off a beautiful group of Ramosior's in your aquarium!
Thank you for Reading!
I’d Like to first start off by simply saying that this was just an experiment that I decided to test out. At the time of this experiment I was in the hobby for about 1 year and 7 months: Take this info as you wish. I am not claiming this to be a solution of any sort, there are people that have been around a lot longer than I have that might have a better hypothesis or understanding. When I first began to put thought into this I thought to myself “No way, you’re wrong … but what if you’re right?” (Yes it was one of those kind of things) This is just my theory on what might cause the infamous droop syndrome so many have experienced.
The motivation for this small experiment was because there’s no worse feeling than looking into your tank and seeing your beloved, favorite, and typically expensive (at the time) Ramosior species with drooping leaves. I remember seeing this happen to my first round of Florida I owned, one stem had drooping leaves and I slowly watched it dwindle away. I thought “No big deal it was just an unhealthy stem” not ever expecting to lose every single stem with in the next 3 days. Yes… a total of 20+ stems GONE just like that. Not to mention I paid about $110 for 8 stem back then. haha. They stuck around for about 3 months before catching the ‘droop’.
So what am I talking about for those that aren’t familiar: With Ramosior species there seems to be a time where the plant will droop its leaves, in my case it started with one stem, then 2 more… then 3 more… then, they all melted away without a trace. literally. I woke up, checked the tank and $110 was gone before my eyes. From discussing with others that have had this issue no body can seem to put a finger on what exactly it could be. (Maybe someone today has figured it out) Is there a TIMELINE on when to expect it? No. Could certain SUBSTRATES cause it? Possibly. Co2 issues? Dosing issues? Some strange disease that develops with in the plants? Who knows. All I can say is here’s what I came up with.
7 months ago I decided to give Florida a try again. I started with 5 Stems and focused on trying to keep them as healthy as possible as long as possible, I was giving myself 3 months to see if they get the Droop:
Original 5 Stems: November 14th 2019
Here is what those 5 stems grew to in 2 months January 16th 2020
That same bunch 3 months after planting: February 21st 2020
Right around that time I started to work with Rotala Ramosior Sunset which i was told was a much more pickier plant than Florida. (As you can see in the last picture) At this point I was going on 4 months with Florida and hadn’t lost a single stem to melting or to drooping leaves. Sunset was around for about 3 weeks and as you can tell by the picture was in rough shape.
(Here is where it got interesting for me)
Not really knowing what made Florida stick around so long I started back tracking on how I was caring for the plant. Everything in my tank at this time was being Topped, I would trim the plant and toss the bottoms. This is where I stumbled on something… As I started to focus more on growing Sunset I noticed something about Sunset that was different from my Florida. Florida was being topped once a week. Sunset was never topped or trimmed, I just wanted it to grow. I decided to up root the Sunset and noticed that the bottom of the stems were black, Compared to the Florida which was whitish yellow. Unfortunately I don’t have pictures of them from this time (I know, this is why I’d be discredited in a legit lab lol) but this is where I noticed a difference. Keep this in mind. Here are pictures of the progress Sunset had when I decided to treat it just like Florida and top it once a week, sometimes even twice a week. Pay attention to the Sunset which is in the Center of the tank just to the left of Florida, then will end up to the far left.
February 22nd 2020
March 1st 2020
March 10th 2020
March 23rd 2020
March 30th 2020
April 9th 2020
At this time I decided to run a short experiment. Hoping it would show some results… Now I did only use Florida for this test, however keep in mind that I still continue to top my Sunset once a week.
So let’s dive back into the black rotting at the bottom of the Sunset before topping it. I noticed that Florida never dealt with this issue because I was always topping all of my plants at least once a week, that was just my maintenance routine. When I planted sunset I didn’t touch it for almost 3 weeks thinking it would grow but it was struggling more than anything. Pale color, Not many side shoots, and overall didn’t look healthy. As you can see from the picture above when I started topping it, it grew faster with 3–4 side shoots on each stem, had beautiful color, and looked healthy for the most part.
April 14th I set up a second tank with the exact same conditions I had in the tank pictured above. (I decided to use Millers Micro-complex instead of mixing my own micros: call it laziness) I took 3 sets of Florida, the first stems (Group 1) I didn’t top at all, second (Group 2) I would top only 3 times over the span of the experiment. Which was conducted over about a 6–7 week time frame. The last set (Group 3) I topped once a week. Here is why I think this is important for Ramosior Species.
Pay attention to how rotted the bottom of the stems are compared to the ones that were topped 3 times and the ones that were topped every week.
Below is Group 1 which was never topped through out the experiment:
Now here is the Second group. Again pay attention to the Bottoms, as well as size difference:
With group two I noticed some rotting towards the bottoms but overall they had decent growth and were much healthy than Group 1 by a long shot. Here’s a side by side comparison:
Now, Here is the growth of Group 3 which was topped every week during the length of the experiment:
Group 3 had thicker stems larger roots, and grew beautiful round leaves, better color and had no rotting at the bottom.
Here is a comparison between Group 2 and Group 3:
And finally, a picture of all groups: Left: Group 1 — Middle: Group 2 — Right: Group 3
*To also note, these were set up in a fairly new tank a the time. It was up and running for about 2 weeks before i threw the plants into the tank. There was a lot for them to adapt to for sure.
So what's the theory? Well, at the time i had Florida growing consistently for 7 months and not a single stem catching the dreaded Droop. (Nov. 14th — June 1st) Sunset had exploded for me at the time with more stems than I thought I’d be able to grow (More pic’s later) Now again, this is just a theory, so please keep that in mind. Working with Ramosior for these months I believe they enjoy rotting from the bottom up… why does that matter? Well, because they rot underneath the substrate, where you would never be able to notice it.
Ramosiors have an inner stem like core, it’s harder than the out side of the plant. If you take your finger nail and run it down the stem barely scratching the outer surface you will see this inner stem that I’m talking about… I’m honestly not sure what to call it. I believe this inner stem acts as a “membrane” for the plant… keeping it healthy. When rotting begins to occur at the bottom of the stem, these membrane like stems begin to rot as well not being able to keep the plant as healthy as possible. Avoid the Rot, Avoid the droop. So where does the droop come into play? I think where we are going wrong with these plants is trimming them and trying to propagate the tops as well as keeping the bottoms. Growing these plants out to be too tall, giving them the time to rot from the bottom.
When rotting occurs for too long, I believe the inner core becomes unhealthy and begins to rot behind the outer stem that we see. As we continue to propagate side shoots and tops from the already unhealthy bottoms, the inner core like stem continues to be unhealthy and rot… Eventually Leading to the drooping leaves which will then lead to stems melting. Now the only part I’m stuck on is why they would all decide to melt at the same time. Thinking back on when my Florida Drooped the first time, I never cut the stems, I was too afraid to. I would only cut side shoots and replant them. Which would make sense as to why they all melted at the same time. I was taking shoots off of an unhealthy plant (Think inner stem here) and planting it. All of my stems where unhealthy at that point… think of it as a disease almost. Once the main stem has it… so do the side shoots. Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing you can do about it. This would explain why even those that took the stems out of the tank and put them into another tank were still experiencing drooping right after one stem got it. If you experience a stem that droops, it’s only a matter of time before all of the others droop.
The conclusion? I truly believe that if you are able to keep the bottoms from rotting by continuously topping the Ramosior species (Florida, Sunset, Cramer) it could give you a very good chance of preventing the Droop Syndrome. Again, I’m no expert, I’m only speaking from experience here…and 7 months with out any drooping is twice as long as I was able to keep it the first time.
By no means am I saying this is the answer to this strange event… or that I’ve even come close to figuring it out. One thing is for sure, it grows really nice stems! for 6 weeks I’ve topped sunset every week. Here’s what it produced, mind you this is just out of my “farm” tank.
Now I had mentioned something way earlier in this post about how substrate may possibly matter when it comes to The Droop. I also mentioned how this was still an on going experiment. All of these stems were grown in Black Diamond Blasting sand and theres a theory out there that Ramosior Sunset doesn't do well in Aquasoil, so to be fair, I recently switched my main tank to Landens Aquasoil to test this with Sunset as well. With about a month into it being in Aquasoil it's not doing so bad. I plan on certainly updating this post after time goes on.
Now to conclude this, I stopped running this experiment as I got busier with work during summer months and was not doing much husbandry to the tank. With fresh soil, few water changes, and little care, algae crept in and I ended up moving the sunset to the "farm tank" getting it healthy and selling it all to focus on more of a "Dutch style" tank at the time. Both of my entire groups of Florida and sunset were eventually sold off and never seen again in this tank. haha.
This was a very fun thing to perform with two amazing plants in this hobby. they are both stunning when grown healthy. This was my second time caring for Florida and my first time growing sunset. I was lucky enough to keep Florida around for almost 2 years and sunset for a solid 14 months. I had no issues trimming either plant using the "topping" method, and even moved them around frequently. Over gown farm tanks with them in it and had them survive that tank with almost 2 weeks of no water changes... I never had an issue with either.
Now, this could have certainly been luck, or maybe at the time I was too green to know that I was actually doing something simple or "standard" for these species. I never wanted to be right - I just wanted to help others keep these plants around a whole lot longer than I was able to the first time. There's nothing like getting to show off a beautiful group of Ramosior's in your aquarium!
Thank you for Reading!
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Journal MrJG - UNS 90L
@Sb1415 Apologies I totally snagged the format of your journal post for this so thank you!
Many moons ago I was an active and contributing member on plantedtank.net, I think at one point I had around 14 scaped tanks going before burnout and life changes. Instead of weekends consisting of maintenance I transitioned to camping/boating and life has been great. I’ve always missed it. After downsizing and making a move to a new home I kept only a small 12x12 cube tank that started life as an amateur iwagumi layout, Seiryu and hairgrass only. I put it on the nightstand beside my bed and added some of my favorite Anubias and crypts from taken down tanks. Its been sitting there running for 5-6 years now, low light, top offs only w tap. Maintenance when it got out of control. Super old aquasoil now flattened out to a thick 4-5 inch thick layer in a perfect line front to back.
In Aug/Sept 25 had a bit of a health issue that kept me in bed for several weeks recovering while I looked at this sad little cube, mostly healthy but not truly thriving. No fertilizer being added for years, GDA covered anubias leaves that also were many years old and I thought to myself I should make this better… that was the tipping point. OK I’ll do a deep clean on the substrate, get some stems to throw in there, maybe get a carpet going. Tissue cultures/stems ordered and I got to work. No more top offs, 10% water changes instead. TDS ~900 when I started. Ultimately everything melted back and didn’t grow well. I’d been keeping the lighting so dim all these years to maintain just the crypts/epiphytes without it turning into a mess and I was ok with it again. That was the spark.
I decided I wanted to build out a new tank, most of my old hardware/tanks I had let go of in a bulk way so I was going to have to start new with everything sans some 5 gallon buckets of Amazonia that I’d placed in the basement of the new house.. Phoenix rising from the ashes? Most likely more like algae emerging from the depths. I still consider myself a beginner and maybe amateur at best so yeah…
So I got to work again reading, researching, what’s new, what has changed since I’ve been out of the loop for so long? Ooo dark start that sounds much better, in line CO2 diffusers cool! CO2 reactors, pretty awesome sounding, 2Hr aquarist read every article, and I’m back in baby!
Tank inspiration
None really hence no name, it fit right into a slot to occupy my mind from a not so great situation that I was in and I’m ok with that. Ultimately I’d like this to be a low-mid energy tank that can have minimal amounts of weekly maintenance while still looking the part. I’d prefer to keep it as simple as possible while still having some high tech bits. Get all the equipment out of the tank, co2, low-mid level lighting, minimal/simple fertilization. I got busy ordering equipment and started brainstorming layouts and what hardscape materials I could find. Instagram was my friend for a while, seems that everything that kept grabbing my attention were island style layouts with a very thin layer of sand surrounding. I’ve also always been partial to big chonky pieces of driftwood, I thought to go the manzanita route but wysiwyg pieces were fetching stupid prices. I ran across this ironwood in a listing and couldn’t let it go. The deep lines in the bark were just calling me so I quick snap ordered it before my brain could process dimensions, I knew it would fit but didn’t fully visualise how much it would ultimately limit the layout. I wanted to stay mostly inert with stone and eventually/begrudgingly ordered the tumbled lava stone with the intention of keeping it to a island/river layout style and mimicking some of my found instagram muse tanks. It will mostly likely end up more nature style although the start will be more Willy Wonka than anything. Thanks @Burr740 for that, I shopped like a kid in a candy store.
Equipment
Tank
Many moons ago I was an active and contributing member on plantedtank.net, I think at one point I had around 14 scaped tanks going before burnout and life changes. Instead of weekends consisting of maintenance I transitioned to camping/boating and life has been great. I’ve always missed it. After downsizing and making a move to a new home I kept only a small 12x12 cube tank that started life as an amateur iwagumi layout, Seiryu and hairgrass only. I put it on the nightstand beside my bed and added some of my favorite Anubias and crypts from taken down tanks. Its been sitting there running for 5-6 years now, low light, top offs only w tap. Maintenance when it got out of control. Super old aquasoil now flattened out to a thick 4-5 inch thick layer in a perfect line front to back.
In Aug/Sept 25 had a bit of a health issue that kept me in bed for several weeks recovering while I looked at this sad little cube, mostly healthy but not truly thriving. No fertilizer being added for years, GDA covered anubias leaves that also were many years old and I thought to myself I should make this better… that was the tipping point. OK I’ll do a deep clean on the substrate, get some stems to throw in there, maybe get a carpet going. Tissue cultures/stems ordered and I got to work. No more top offs, 10% water changes instead. TDS ~900 when I started. Ultimately everything melted back and didn’t grow well. I’d been keeping the lighting so dim all these years to maintain just the crypts/epiphytes without it turning into a mess and I was ok with it again. That was the spark.
I decided I wanted to build out a new tank, most of my old hardware/tanks I had let go of in a bulk way so I was going to have to start new with everything sans some 5 gallon buckets of Amazonia that I’d placed in the basement of the new house.. Phoenix rising from the ashes? Most likely more like algae emerging from the depths. I still consider myself a beginner and maybe amateur at best so yeah…
So I got to work again reading, researching, what’s new, what has changed since I’ve been out of the loop for so long? Ooo dark start that sounds much better, in line CO2 diffusers cool! CO2 reactors, pretty awesome sounding, 2Hr aquarist read every article, and I’m back in baby!
Tank inspiration
None really hence no name, it fit right into a slot to occupy my mind from a not so great situation that I was in and I’m ok with that. Ultimately I’d like this to be a low-mid energy tank that can have minimal amounts of weekly maintenance while still looking the part. I’d prefer to keep it as simple as possible while still having some high tech bits. Get all the equipment out of the tank, co2, low-mid level lighting, minimal/simple fertilization. I got busy ordering equipment and started brainstorming layouts and what hardscape materials I could find. Instagram was my friend for a while, seems that everything that kept grabbing my attention were island style layouts with a very thin layer of sand surrounding. I’ve also always been partial to big chonky pieces of driftwood, I thought to go the manzanita route but wysiwyg pieces were fetching stupid prices. I ran across this ironwood in a listing and couldn’t let it go. The deep lines in the bark were just calling me so I quick snap ordered it before my brain could process dimensions, I knew it would fit but didn’t fully visualise how much it would ultimately limit the layout. I wanted to stay mostly inert with stone and eventually/begrudgingly ordered the tumbled lava stone with the intention of keeping it to a island/river layout style and mimicking some of my found instagram muse tanks. It will mostly likely end up more nature style although the start will be more Willy Wonka than anything. Thanks @Burr740 for that, I shopped like a kid in a candy store.
Equipment
Tank
- UNS 90L
- 90 cm x 30 cm x 30 cm
- 79 liters or 21 gallons by volume, 62.5 liters or 16.5 gallons actual w hardscape
- Oase Thermo 200
- Replaced the charcoal media with more ceramic from Oase
- Replaced w Fzone stainless steel -Fzone glass Lily w skimmer ⅝”
- Replaced tubing with UNS pro tubing ⅝”
- Fzone Quick release ⅝” so Lily pipes can be cleaned without having to reprime filter
- Gla inline atomizer - replaced Fzone Co2 inline diffuser ⅝”
- GLA dual stage - replaced Fzone pro series dual stage regulator w/ 5lb tank
- Timed on 3 hours before lights on, off 1 hour before lights off
- Using distilled by gallon, remineralized with salty shrimp GH targeting GH around 4-5
- Hoping for 0-1 KH
- Dark start cycled with prime dechlorinated Tap and APT Start
- 80% old used ADA Amazonia v1, small bits sifted and bagged to create slight slope
- 2HR Feast topped to around 2 inches
- UNS Bora sand
- UNS Kona pebbles
- Fzone Bright 90 - 90CM
- Before hardscape made rough par map using photone with diffuser iPhone 15 Pro
- At 100% top 404, mid 219, base 127 PAR
- At 50% top 190, mid 110, base 62 PAR
- Will be starting tank with 45-50% lighting intensity
- Timed at 3pm-9pm photoperiod with 60 minute ramps
- Current Colorcast LED strip w/frosted background
- Timed scenes for dawn (orange 1 HR during pre-ramp) /daylight (green during ON cycle) /sunset (red 1 HR during post-ramp) /night (indigo 1 HR after lights out)
- Arizona Ironwood
- Black tumbled lava stone
- APT 1 and 3 dosed at recommended levels per calculator
- APT Jazz - in 3-4 months as Feast gives out
- Trying to keep it simple with fertilization to start
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Rockstar
Inspired by @Naturescapes_Rocco ’s no-tech bowl thread, I decided to set up something similar.
With all the highs and lows of running a high-tech planted tank, I was hoping to put together something much simpler—a small bowl with no filter, no CO₂, and minimal equipment.
12" diameter × 10" height
Approximately 3 gallons
5 watts
At the end of the two weeks, ammonia remained super high.
I eventually got impatient, did about a 90% water change, and planted the bowl.
Current plants include:
A 75% water change takes less than 10 minutes.
For the last couple of weeks after planting, I’ve been doing water changes approximately every 2–3 days.
Maybe it’s the fresh aquasoil, but the pH has been sitting around 6.6. For comparison, my main high-tech tank with APT Feast (about a year old) sits around pH 7 before the CO₂ comes on.
Plant growth has been surprisingly good. I also frequently see the plants pearling, which I wasn’t necessarily expecting from a little no-tech setup like this. The L.heterophylla has been trimmed once.
What has been particularly interesting is how easily plants taken directly from my high-tech tank seem to have transitioned to these very different conditions.
A bladder snail somehow hitchhiked in with the plants. It seems perfectly happy and has already started reproducing.
With the relatively low pH, I suspect much of the measured ammonia is present as the less-toxic ammonium form, which may also explain why the snail seems completely unbothered.
I am starting to see the power of frequent water changes with the lack of algae so far (fingers crossed).
For such a small volume of water, APT Feast may simply be more nutrient-rich than necessary. I’m curious to see how things evolve once the bowl matures.
2. Choose a different light.
The light itself works fine, but the built-in timer is frustrating.
If I turn the light on at night just to look at the bowl, it interrupts the timer cycle, and I then have to reset it the following day.
I’m not particularly handy with electrical work, but ideally I’d love a simple light that could just be plugged into a Kasa smart plug and controlled externally.
If anyone has recommendations for a good small bowl light that works that way, let me know.
Overall, though, I’m really enjoying the simplicity of this setup so far.
Looking forward to letting it mature a little more and hopefully adding some red cherry shrimp soon.
With all the highs and lows of running a high-tech planted tank, I was hoping to put together something much simpler—a small bowl with no filter, no CO₂, and minimal equipment.
Bowl
WGV Large Glass Bowl Vase12" diameter × 10" height
Approximately 3 gallons
Light
AREPK Aquarium & Terrarium Full Spectrum LED5 watts
Substrate / Hardscape
- APT Feast
- A single lava rock
Water
RO water remineralized with APT SkyFertilizer
None so far.Dark Start
I did a dark start for about 2 weeks after squeezing some mulm from an established filter into the bowl.At the end of the two weeks, ammonia remained super high.
I eventually got impatient, did about a 90% water change, and planted the bowl.
Plants
My initial goal was to use relatively fast-growing plants to help stabilize the system. Some of these may not necessarily remain in the bowl long term.Current plants include:
- Limnophila heterophylla
- Pearlweed
- Rotala ‘Blood Red’
- Helanthium tenellum
- Trident Java fern
- Mini Bolbitis
- A few assorted stems from my main tank
- Some nice floating plants
Water Changes
One of the biggest advantages of a bowl this size is how easy maintenance is.A 75% water change takes less than 10 minutes.
For the last couple of weeks after planting, I’ve been doing water changes approximately every 2–3 days.
Experience So Far
So far, the water has remained crystal clear.Maybe it’s the fresh aquasoil, but the pH has been sitting around 6.6. For comparison, my main high-tech tank with APT Feast (about a year old) sits around pH 7 before the CO₂ comes on.
Plant growth has been surprisingly good. I also frequently see the plants pearling, which I wasn’t necessarily expecting from a little no-tech setup like this. The L.heterophylla has been trimmed once.
What has been particularly interesting is how easily plants taken directly from my high-tech tank seem to have transitioned to these very different conditions.
A bladder snail somehow hitchhiked in with the plants. It seems perfectly happy and has already started reproducing.
With the relatively low pH, I suspect much of the measured ammonia is present as the less-toxic ammonium form, which may also explain why the snail seems completely unbothered.
I am starting to see the power of frequent water changes with the lack of algae so far (fingers crossed).
Things I Might Do Differently Next Time
1. Use a less nutrient-rich substrate or cap the aquasoil.For such a small volume of water, APT Feast may simply be more nutrient-rich than necessary. I’m curious to see how things evolve once the bowl matures.
2. Choose a different light.
The light itself works fine, but the built-in timer is frustrating.
If I turn the light on at night just to look at the bowl, it interrupts the timer cycle, and I then have to reset it the following day.
I’m not particularly handy with electrical work, but ideally I’d love a simple light that could just be plugged into a Kasa smart plug and controlled externally.
If anyone has recommendations for a good small bowl light that works that way, let me know.
Overall, though, I’m really enjoying the simplicity of this setup so far.
Looking forward to letting it mature a little more and hopefully adding some red cherry shrimp soon.
12 Replies
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339 views
I’m starting this build with no experience in aquascaping other than keeping a large low tech community, fish focussed tank many years ago. I’m pleased with my hard scape but I think that will be the easy part. I’ll document all my ups and downs here and hopefully end up with my dream scape 
Aquasys 230L 90x55x53cm
Week Aqua L series lighting
Oase bio master 2 thermo 350
CO2 still to add
Stainless steel Lily pipes
Local basalt pebbles
Spider wood
Tropica Aqua Soil
Sand Foreground
I’m planning a dark start which gives me time to plan the planing and fish. I have some ideas but welcome suggestions!
Aquasys 230L 90x55x53cm
Week Aqua L series lighting
Oase bio master 2 thermo 350
CO2 still to add
Stainless steel Lily pipes
Local basalt pebbles
Spider wood
Tropica Aqua Soil
Sand Foreground
I’m planning a dark start which gives me time to plan the planing and fish. I have some ideas but welcome suggestions!
21 Replies
·
401 views
Journal A New Beginning
This is where I started.
Thread 'What am I doing wrong?' Help - What am I doing wrong?
A new plan is formulating.
I have 50+ lbs of washed BDBS ready to go in.
I also purchased a new Aquael Ultramax 1000 canister filter.
The plan is to let the filter run for a month. Then at some point swap out the existing gravel with the BDBS. I'll continue to run the new canister as well as the existing HOBs for another month after the substrate swap and then retire the HOBs.
I have to wait at least a month to let the new canister develop a bacteria colony and also the BDBS is in 5 gallon buckets in my shed and it's currently frozen into a solid block.
After the tank is stable, only then will I add plants. I plan on going the CO2 route this time. I'm looking at adding a GLA or a CO2 Art inline diffuser.
Which bring me to.my first question. I've tried to think about this logically. Due to space my canister filter sits on the right side of my tank, not underneath.
What side do I want to put my intake and output? I was thinking of putting the inlet on the right side since it will be almost a straight shot via gravity directly into the filter. The outflow, which will be a spray bar, would be on the left side. That would give more contact time between CO2 and water after the inline diffuser, however that longer output length would likely also slow flow some as their is a longer run of hose and more head height. But I think the more contact time the more the CO2 diffuser into the water before going into the tank. Am I thinking about this correctly?
Thread 'What am I doing wrong?' Help - What am I doing wrong?
A new plan is formulating.
I have 50+ lbs of washed BDBS ready to go in.
I also purchased a new Aquael Ultramax 1000 canister filter.
The plan is to let the filter run for a month. Then at some point swap out the existing gravel with the BDBS. I'll continue to run the new canister as well as the existing HOBs for another month after the substrate swap and then retire the HOBs.
I have to wait at least a month to let the new canister develop a bacteria colony and also the BDBS is in 5 gallon buckets in my shed and it's currently frozen into a solid block.
After the tank is stable, only then will I add plants. I plan on going the CO2 route this time. I'm looking at adding a GLA or a CO2 Art inline diffuser.
Which bring me to.my first question. I've tried to think about this logically. Due to space my canister filter sits on the right side of my tank, not underneath.
What side do I want to put my intake and output? I was thinking of putting the inlet on the right side since it will be almost a straight shot via gravity directly into the filter. The outflow, which will be a spray bar, would be on the left side. That would give more contact time between CO2 and water after the inline diffuser, however that longer output length would likely also slow flow some as their is a longer run of hose and more head height. But I think the more contact time the more the CO2 diffuser into the water before going into the tank. Am I thinking about this correctly?
19 Replies
·
1414 views
Supporting
I Donated 2026
Rockstar
There are several threads discussing the new Aquael Hypermax 4500BT. I'm sure many would like some reports on it's performance over time. We have a thread discussing nano canister filters. We're all waiting for one of @Naturescapes_Rocco in depth write-ups discussing his filtration set-up. @Pepere and @*Ci* have unique set-ups as well, @Kwyet has used a matten filter, and we have several other members running sumps. That doesn't even include all those running sponge and HOB filters.
The idea is that we can consolidate a lot of filter information in one place making it easier to find rather than searching through so many threads. Maybe this won't work but I thought it was worth giving it a try. Perhaps it may be better listed as an article at some point.
I'm going to get things started by discussing factors I feel are most important to me when choosing a filter.
1) Filtration Performance: This goes without saying. The filter’s primary job is to keep our water clean and free of anything that harms the inhabitants. Of course, there are multiple factors that play into this. Some say flow is most critical, while others claim media volume is most important. Are there other factors? I still have limited experience, but my view, having done considerable reading, is that flow tends to be a bit overblown. You’ll see recommendations of anywhere from 4 to 10 times turnover rate with most leaning toward the higher end of that. I don’t think turnover rate is really the detail to be concerned about, at least with heavily planted tanks like are the norm here. I think the focus should be simply on ensuring flow achieves the goal of effectively moving water through the system to remove toxins/waste, delivering nutrients, and aiding gas (oxygen/CO2) transfer. If a turnover rate of 3 or 4 does that without dead spots in the tank, you should be good. After all, most of us here are plant focused and therefore, the fish we generally have are smaller community species that typically don’t care for high flow (there are, of course, exceptions).
I think there’s a simpler answer regarding media volume; more is better. Obviously, there must be a balance between internal volume and overall size of the filter. Real estate in and around our aquarium stands is precious. Filters like the Fluval FX6 and the newest Aquael Hypermax are huge. If you’re going for one of those, you’re likely putting it on a large tank with plenty of space underneath but again, it’s a matter of finding the right balance that provides the performance you need in a manageable size.
2) Reliability/Durability: This is where solid reviews come in handy and why getting feedback from users here is invaluable. Filtration performance becomes moot if the filter isn’t running, or worse yet, just flooded your house. Being able to easily source spare parts is also valuable, which is why sticking to the top well-known brands is often a safe route. It’s also why many aquarists place canister filters in protective containers, something else to consider when taking into account, size of filter. (this is something I should really do as I’ve had to clean up a few significant spills after filter maintenance and not getting the top secured in place properly
)
3) Tie – Maintenance/Noise Level: These two factors are equally important to me. If the filter is a pain to maintain, I’m going to put it off, and that’s bad. It affects the performance. But equally important to me is how noisy it is. I tend to be sensitive to annoying little sounds regardless of where I am; at home, in the car, at work, you name it. If the aquarium is in a part of the house I spend a lot of time in, well then, it’s even more important.
I don’t know if Oase was first to do it, but the idea of the prefilter was, I think, a game changer for many. I imagine it was derived from people installing foam filters on the intake pipes. Having an easily removable section with foam filters that catch a lot of large particles before entering the primary filter chamber is a great idea, resulting in expanded intervals between main filter head removals for cleaning.
Another aspect of maintenance is ease of priming. This could also be an aspect of performance but I don’t think it is quite as important. I’m not sure there is a canister filter that is truly or consistently easy to prime. Some may start out that way, but over time, become less and less so. This is an area I’d really like to see product designers put more serious thought. My experience so far is with Oase and the Fluval 07 series. Hated the Fuval priming and I’m just so-so with the Oase. Let me know your experience with priming other brands.
As for noise, I don’t mind the slight hum of an impeller as long as it’s steady and consistent, much the same way some people, including myself when I was younger, like the smooth steady sound of a fan at night to help them sleep. It’s when the sound becomes inconsistent, I’m bothered. I also don’t care for the sound of splashing/trickling water while I’m focused on other things. Only when I’m camping near the banks of a creek or other body of water is this OK
. This is one of the main reasons I’m not a fan of HOB filters. I’m also tweaking my CO2 reactor designs to minimize the bubble sounds of CO2 entering the reactor.
4) Cost: Let’s be clear, the cost doesn’t stop when you pay the retail price for the filter. There’s the cost of media and spare parts plus the cost of electricity. What’s the rated wattage of the filter. I see the Aquael filters claim to consume lower power and are therefore cheaper to run. What about special filter cartridges or foam. Is it easy to cut foam filters from inexpensive bulk material? How often are gasket replacements necessary, or are there common issues with parts failing over time. Of two Fluval 07 filters I’ve used, both needed replacement impeller shafts. Oase Biomaster filters seem to have an issue with the input/output head often needing replaced.
I admit cost isn’t a critical factor for me, but I know it is for many others, so this is another instance where finding the right balance is key, in this case, the balance between price and performance.
Share your thoughts. Do these factors seem to align with yours or do you think I’m way off base. Tell us what types and brands of filters you prefer and why.
The idea is that we can consolidate a lot of filter information in one place making it easier to find rather than searching through so many threads. Maybe this won't work but I thought it was worth giving it a try. Perhaps it may be better listed as an article at some point.
I'm going to get things started by discussing factors I feel are most important to me when choosing a filter.
1) Filtration Performance: This goes without saying. The filter’s primary job is to keep our water clean and free of anything that harms the inhabitants. Of course, there are multiple factors that play into this. Some say flow is most critical, while others claim media volume is most important. Are there other factors? I still have limited experience, but my view, having done considerable reading, is that flow tends to be a bit overblown. You’ll see recommendations of anywhere from 4 to 10 times turnover rate with most leaning toward the higher end of that. I don’t think turnover rate is really the detail to be concerned about, at least with heavily planted tanks like are the norm here. I think the focus should be simply on ensuring flow achieves the goal of effectively moving water through the system to remove toxins/waste, delivering nutrients, and aiding gas (oxygen/CO2) transfer. If a turnover rate of 3 or 4 does that without dead spots in the tank, you should be good. After all, most of us here are plant focused and therefore, the fish we generally have are smaller community species that typically don’t care for high flow (there are, of course, exceptions).
I think there’s a simpler answer regarding media volume; more is better. Obviously, there must be a balance between internal volume and overall size of the filter. Real estate in and around our aquarium stands is precious. Filters like the Fluval FX6 and the newest Aquael Hypermax are huge. If you’re going for one of those, you’re likely putting it on a large tank with plenty of space underneath but again, it’s a matter of finding the right balance that provides the performance you need in a manageable size.
2) Reliability/Durability: This is where solid reviews come in handy and why getting feedback from users here is invaluable. Filtration performance becomes moot if the filter isn’t running, or worse yet, just flooded your house. Being able to easily source spare parts is also valuable, which is why sticking to the top well-known brands is often a safe route. It’s also why many aquarists place canister filters in protective containers, something else to consider when taking into account, size of filter. (this is something I should really do as I’ve had to clean up a few significant spills after filter maintenance and not getting the top secured in place properly
)3) Tie – Maintenance/Noise Level: These two factors are equally important to me. If the filter is a pain to maintain, I’m going to put it off, and that’s bad. It affects the performance. But equally important to me is how noisy it is. I tend to be sensitive to annoying little sounds regardless of where I am; at home, in the car, at work, you name it. If the aquarium is in a part of the house I spend a lot of time in, well then, it’s even more important.
I don’t know if Oase was first to do it, but the idea of the prefilter was, I think, a game changer for many. I imagine it was derived from people installing foam filters on the intake pipes. Having an easily removable section with foam filters that catch a lot of large particles before entering the primary filter chamber is a great idea, resulting in expanded intervals between main filter head removals for cleaning.
Another aspect of maintenance is ease of priming. This could also be an aspect of performance but I don’t think it is quite as important. I’m not sure there is a canister filter that is truly or consistently easy to prime. Some may start out that way, but over time, become less and less so. This is an area I’d really like to see product designers put more serious thought. My experience so far is with Oase and the Fluval 07 series. Hated the Fuval priming and I’m just so-so with the Oase. Let me know your experience with priming other brands.
As for noise, I don’t mind the slight hum of an impeller as long as it’s steady and consistent, much the same way some people, including myself when I was younger, like the smooth steady sound of a fan at night to help them sleep. It’s when the sound becomes inconsistent, I’m bothered. I also don’t care for the sound of splashing/trickling water while I’m focused on other things. Only when I’m camping near the banks of a creek or other body of water is this OK
. This is one of the main reasons I’m not a fan of HOB filters. I’m also tweaking my CO2 reactor designs to minimize the bubble sounds of CO2 entering the reactor.4) Cost: Let’s be clear, the cost doesn’t stop when you pay the retail price for the filter. There’s the cost of media and spare parts plus the cost of electricity. What’s the rated wattage of the filter. I see the Aquael filters claim to consume lower power and are therefore cheaper to run. What about special filter cartridges or foam. Is it easy to cut foam filters from inexpensive bulk material? How often are gasket replacements necessary, or are there common issues with parts failing over time. Of two Fluval 07 filters I’ve used, both needed replacement impeller shafts. Oase Biomaster filters seem to have an issue with the input/output head often needing replaced.
I admit cost isn’t a critical factor for me, but I know it is for many others, so this is another instance where finding the right balance is key, in this case, the balance between price and performance.
Share your thoughts. Do these factors seem to align with yours or do you think I’m way off base. Tell us what types and brands of filters you prefer and why.
134 Replies
·
8727 views
I Donated 2026
My wife and I agreed we'd ideally be moving in the next 6-12 months. There's the possibly it could be sooner if the right place pops up, and could possibly be longer, although not ideal. This has made me pause and reconsider setting up my 120p in this house (and a 20 gallon too!). The thought of having the tank up and running for possibly a short period of time before having to break it down and move it sounds pretty terrible compared to moving all of individual components. I currently have my 75p, so I'm not tankless and would need to move that.
Location would still be in the same general region (20-40 mile radius) and we'd likely maintain overlap between homes for a 1 month.
What would you do?
Location would still be in the same general region (20-40 mile radius) and we'd likely maintain overlap between homes for a 1 month.
What would you do?
11 Replies
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248 views
Supporting
I Donated 2026
Rockstar
5 Replies
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182 views
Rockstar
Journal 22 gallon long bookshelf
Time to start a new thread.
I’ll fill in some details later, but I’m working on the hardscape now. Any and all criticism is appreciated. The vision is nothing more, and nothing less, than something appealing to the eye.
90cm x 30cm x 30cm Lifegard Aquatics ultra clear bookshelf tank. Buce and anubias on the hardscape, stems towards the back and center, mid to front carpet with some changes in shade and texture down to a flat grade on the right side of the tank.
Lily pipe inlet and skimmer will be in the back left corner with the outflow in the front left to hopefully achieve circular flow. I’ll be running an in-line diffuser. Light will be the P600 Pro that I regrettably did not upside to 900. Oh well. I’ll mount it high and hopefully it’ll have enough spread.
I have some dragon stone and red lava rock rubble I’ll use at the base to blend into the substrate, as well as some stratum I may or may not cap with.
I’ll fill in some details later, but I’m working on the hardscape now. Any and all criticism is appreciated. The vision is nothing more, and nothing less, than something appealing to the eye.
90cm x 30cm x 30cm Lifegard Aquatics ultra clear bookshelf tank. Buce and anubias on the hardscape, stems towards the back and center, mid to front carpet with some changes in shade and texture down to a flat grade on the right side of the tank.
Lily pipe inlet and skimmer will be in the back left corner with the outflow in the front left to hopefully achieve circular flow. I’ll be running an in-line diffuser. Light will be the P600 Pro that I regrettably did not upside to 900. Oh well. I’ll mount it high and hopefully it’ll have enough spread.
I have some dragon stone and red lava rock rubble I’ll use at the base to blend into the substrate, as well as some stratum I may or may not cap with.
258 Replies
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27602 views
Thinking about building an aquascape inspiration site — want honest feedback before I build anything
Long-time lurker in the hobby. I’ve been chewing on an idea for a website (maybe a weekly newsletter too) that’s focused purely on curated aquascape inspiration — not another feed to scroll, but something with an actual point of view: why a scape works, what makes the hardscape/planting choices interesting, styles worth studying, that kind of thing.
Before I build anything, wanted to ask people who’d actually use it:
• Where do you currently go for aquascape inspiration — Instagram, YouTube, forums, contest archives?
• Does that already fully scratch the itch, or is there something missing (context, explanation, curation vs. just a feed)?
• Would a smaller, curated site/newsletter add anything for you, or does it feel redundant with what’s already out there?
• Would you ever visit or subscribe to something like that regularly, or is it a “look at once, forget” kind of thing?
Genuinely trying to figure out if this fills a real gap or if I’d just be adding noise to a space that’s already well served. All takes welcome, including “this already exists” or “nobody needs this.”
Before I build anything, wanted to ask people who’d actually use it:
• Where do you currently go for aquascape inspiration — Instagram, YouTube, forums, contest archives?
• Does that already fully scratch the itch, or is there something missing (context, explanation, curation vs. just a feed)?
• Would a smaller, curated site/newsletter add anything for you, or does it feel redundant with what’s already out there?
• Would you ever visit or subscribe to something like that regularly, or is it a “look at once, forget” kind of thing?
Genuinely trying to figure out if this fills a real gap or if I’d just be adding noise to a space that’s already well served. All takes welcome, including “this already exists” or “nobody needs this.”
5 Replies
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198 views
Staff member
I Donated 2026
Founding Member
This is the future home for the announcements when someone obtains an achievement badge. Let the games begin!
2037 Replies
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56535 views