Thoughts about Cedar Driftwood in a Planted Tank?

[NC AL]

Thoughts about Cedar driftwood in a planted tank? My research says it’s a bad idea, but curious if that has practical rationale behind it.

I bought a med-large piece from Belinda’s Driftwood. I was disappointed when it arrived and it was cedar. It’s obviously a buyer-beware situation.

 

[JayP]

I think cedar that's been dead and dried out or water-logged a long time is probably fine. I imagine Belinda has sold lots of it, knowing the areas she collects from.

 

[hamfist]

I believe cedar has relatively large amounts of oils and resins in it, like a lot of coniferous woods. These are the potential problem in an aquarium, as they leach out and can cause issues.
Drying out will not remove these oils/resins at all. However, waterlogging for sometime probably will remove a good % of them.
I have zero experience of trying it myself though.

 

[NC AL]

I believe cedar has relatively large amounts of oils and resins in it, like a lot of coniferous woods. These are the potential problem in an aquarium, as they leach out and can cause issues.
Drying out will not remove these oils/resins at all. However, waterlogging for sometime probably will remove a good % of them.
I have zero experience of trying it myself though.

Yep. I didn’t know if letting it drying would help or not. The cedar smell is very faint, but still there. I wouldn’t use it for another 6-12 months. I might try soaking it for a while if I can get a big enough container.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Yep. I didn’t know if letting it drying would help or not. The cedar smell is very faint, but still there. I wouldn’t use it for another 6-12 months. I might try soaking it for a while if I can get a big enough container.

I’m pretty positive the new piece in my tank is cedar as well. It had a faint smell too after unpacking. It went away within a day or so and the odor was gone. Mine has been submerged for probably 2 months now. I do have some tannin release but no oil residue I’ve noticed. The only oily sheen I’ve noticed is when I have the water level too high in the rear chambers and there isn’t enough water falling or turbulence to break it up. The seller I purchased from claims all their wood is submerged for weeks or months and pressure washed and scrubbed beforehand. I’ll be planting and adding livestock this week so we’ll see haven’t noticed any ill effects this far, it’s been a lengthy dark start.

 

[Capraquaria]

Do you know if it is truly Cedar (Cedrus genus), or Juniper (Juniperus genus). True Cedar is native to the Mediterranean. There are no true Cedars native to the United States, so if Belinda picked it up somewhere in the US, unless it was a cultivated ornamental, it is unlikely to be true Cedar. For example, our Eastern Red Cedar is actually Juniperus virginiana. I know that Juniper wood is used in European aquascaping quite a bit due to its rot resistance. IIRC Juris has quite the stash of it, and has used in a couple of his online builds. True Cedar would certainly be risky, though. Whether or not you use it would come down to accurate identification of the wood species.

 

[BranchScape]

Do you know if it is truly Cedar (Cedrus genus), or Juniper (Juniperus genus). True Cedar is native to the Mediterranean. There are no true Cedars native to the United States, so if Belinda picked it up somewhere in the US, unless it was a cultivated ornamental, it is unlikely to be true Cedar. For example, our Eastern Red Cedar is actually Juniperus virginiana. I know that Juniper wood is used in European aquascaping quite a bit due to its rot resistance. IIRC Juris has quite the stash of it, and has used in a couple of his online builds. True Cedar would certainly be risky, though. Whether or not you use it would come down to accurate identification of the wood species.

Agreed here that everything we have is in the Cypress family, if from North America. The Cypress family includes said Junipers. Red Texas Select is a form of juniper wood but I don't know what species, and it has a pleasant faint smell to it.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Good to know, I know for a fact my wood was harvested somewhere in Tennessee. Little hop skip and a jump from the Mediterranean.

 

[Koan]

or Juniper (Juniperus genus)

Or Thuja super oily, great for keeping the rain off! Or fencing you don't have to treat I wouldn't use Western Red in a tank I don't think

Thuja plicata - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Capraquaria]

This video automatically popped up this morning after I finished watching a Biotopia vid, with MD interviewing Jeff Senske at ADG in Houston, TX. This 700 gallon hardscape-only layout was scaped with Eastern Red Cedar (Juniperus virginiana). It is a native tree here in the US, but a bit of a thug on Texas ranchland and considered an aggressive pest tree there. It is structurally beautiful, although Jeff does mention that it is a bit floaty for a while, so may take a loooong time to waterlog.

 

[Akshay]

I wouldn't risk it.
by profession I am a perfumer & regularly use Cedarwood oil from USA ( not true cedar as mentioned above) in my fragrances , & since we export our fragrances ,we have to generate what is called a SDS ( safety data sheet)
attached is the SDS for the essential oil of Cedarwood oil Virginian
granted the attached SDS is for the extracted essential oil & not for the wood & the amount of Essential oil in the wood will be miniscule ( and hazzards are dependent upon the concentration of the hazardous material) , but it is classified as H411 ( which is the 2nd highest aquatic hazard one can give to any material)

Now the nerd in me wants to find a solution & here it is
DISCLAMER I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT AT ALL
Cedarwood Essential oil has a rather high affinity to Hexane ( a highly volatile, flammable, petrochemical) , dip the wood in Hexane , the Hexane will pull out most of the essential Oil form the wood , repeat the process a couple of times ( slightly elevated temps help out a lot)
the wood should be effectively de oiled & should be safe, the absorbed Hexane in the wood will evaporate in a few hours under the sun
this is the process we use to extract Oils from botanicals & the left over hexane+ oil is further treated to get what is called an absolute in perfumery

yay! both my passions in one place

 

[Capraquaria]

I wouldn't risk it.
by profession I am a perfumer & regularly use Cedarwood oil from USA ( not true cedar as mentioned above) in my fragrances , & since we export our fragrances ,we have to generate what is called a SDS ( safety data sheet)
attached is the SDS for the essential oil of Cedarwood oil Virginian
granted the attached SDS is for the extracted essential oil & not for the wood & the amount of Essential oil in the wood will be miniscule ( and hazzards are dependent upon the concentration of the hazardous material) , but it is classified as H411 ( which is the 2nd highest aquatic hazard one can give to any material)

Now the nerd in me wants to find a solution & here it is
DISCLAMER I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT AT ALL
Cedarwood Essential oil has a rather high affinity to Hexane ( a highly volatile, flammable, petrochemical) , dip the wood in Hexane , the Hexane will pull out most of the essential Oil form the wood , repeat the process a couple of times ( slightly elevated temps help out a lot)
the wood should be effectively de oiled & should be safe, the absorbed Hexane in the wood will evaporate in a few hours under the sun
this is the process we use to extract Oils from botanicals & the left over hexane+ oil is further treated to get what is called an absolute in perfumery

yay! both my passions in one place

I agree that any Juniper species wood needs to be very dry, aged, and cured. I am a soaper, and have been for almost 20 years, and do not use essential oils in my soaps because they are an unregulated additive by the FDA, and compounds are indeed harmful, and not worth risking my insurance over. The principle terpene in Juniper, α-pinene, is indeed harmful to fish, so any Juniper used in aquaria has to be very well dried and cured. That said, ADG has used Eastern Red Cedar in several of their tanks for years, but the caveat is certainly to do your research first. I only posted the video because we have this discussion rolling here, and it was an interesting example of it in use.

 

[BranchScape]

I agree that any Juniper species wood needs to be very dry, aged, and cured. I am a soaper, and have been for almost 20 years, and do not use essential oils in my soaps because they are an unregulated additive by the FDA, and compounds are indeed harmful, and not worth risking my insurance over. The principle terpene in Juniper, α-pinene, is indeed harmful to fish, so any Juniper used in aquaria has to be very well dried and cured. That said, ADG has used Eastern Red Cedar in several of their tanks for years, but the caveat is certainly to do your research first. I only posted the video because we have this discussion rolling here, and it was an interesting example of it in use.

My journal tank is three pieces of ADG sourced Red Texas Select driftwood. The one large piece hasn't sunk in 3 months now and I have drilled holes in it even. It broke my glue up within a week and I have a media bag full of UNS Kona weighing it down. It's one of the reasons I never did an update or posted photos as it looks silly. So note the big pieces do love to float. The good news was no observable leeching of anything. The pieces I got were clearly aged/cured, and had no bark etc. So sourcing matters and I would kill to have the ADG source since they no longer sell to scapers unless you bought a pallet from them or did a design.

 

[Capraquaria]

I would kill to have the ADG source since they no longer sell to scapers unless you bought a pallet from them or did a design.

Would they sell to scapers if they bought a pallet? Like a group of scapers, or an aquarium club got together to purchase a whole pallet?

 

[Mr. Silly Goose]

I bought a med-large piece from Belinda’s Driftwood. I was disappointed when it arrived and it was cedar. It’s obviously a buyer-beware situation.

How were you able to identify the species? I have a piece from her and just assumed it was safe to use given her clientele.

 

[NC AL]

How were you able to identify the species? I have a piece from her and just assumed it was safe to use given her clientele.

I can tell from looks when dry. It also has a very faint cedar smell which I am familiar with.

 

[JayP]

I can tell from looks when dry. It also has a very faint cedar smell which I am familiar with.

Did you message Belinda to ask about it. My experience was that she was very quick to respond and communicate.

 

[BranchScape]

Would they sell to scapers if they bought a pallet? Like a group of scapers, or an aquarium club got together to purchase a whole pallet?

Cant say for sure but my takeaway after talking to Mike is it just has to be enough to be worth it for them. Debated going that route as I love the look of the stuff. Granted it doesn't sink easily so manzanita would be easier.

 

[NC AL]

Did you message Belinda to ask about it. My experience was that she was very quick to respond and communicate.

I haven’t yet. I was checking lol possibilities first.

 

[NC AL]

Did you message Belinda to ask about it. My experience was that she was very quick to respond and communicate.

I did message her. She wasn't willing to do anything. This was her response.

"Hello my friend im happy its there

yes it has a fresh cut but I assure you its safe you will have no issues with it all. Cedar is a wood that you need to use caution with and im very OCD on my end. I have 3 seperate test all my cedar goes thru prior ti hitting my page

"