The great Planted Tank Myths thread!

[Art]

On the black out treatment, I have never seen it to be recommended as a complete solution for algae. It is always part of an overall treatment to deal with the algae that is present. Part of the treatment is identifying and correcting the underlying issue that led to algae overgrowing.

 

[Art]

All add to @JPog's one, Amano Shrimp are necessary to keep algae under control in your tank.

 

[JPog]

This one is funny. I remember being extremely concerned about this. As I had a single stage, I would check the tank daily when it was running low...

This may have been very true 5-10 years ago when I 1st started out in this hobby. Now days with the advancement of Metering Valves we do not hear about ETOD too often.

Side note: A dual stage regulator means one guage reads the tank pressure the other guage reads the pressure coming out of the tank

Admission I've never used a dual stage regulator. Been using single since the day when the Milwaukee Ma957 was pretty much the only game in town. I've used probably 5 or 6 different single stage, have never monitored my co2 and I just let it go dry and never once had an EOTD event. Much more likely a creeping needle valve is the thing to worry about.

 

[PBITAWA]

Please explain EOTD

 

[GreggZ]

Please explain EOTD

End of Tank Dump.

The idea is that when the CO2 tank gets low and pressure drops the regulator fails and dumps out the rest of the CO2 all at once killing all livestock.

I've only used single stage regulators, run out my tanks until empty, and have never had it happen.

And not saying it can't happen, I just have never seen it or personally know anybody that it's happened to.

I agree with @JPog, I'd be more worried about a poor needle valve.

 

[PBITAWA]

Ok thank you

So a good quality needle valve is very important, and EOTD is not so common .

 

[spawnerjp]

Co2 ON 2hrs before lights On and 1hr OFF before lights OFF

 

[PBITAWA]

Co2 ON 2hrs before lights On and 1hr OFF before lights OFF

Elaborate!!!

 

[JPog]

Low light plants need LOW LIGHT. It can be too bright for them

 

[Freshflora]

Elaborate!!!

Just that it’s overly general. There are folks that have their CO2 optimized enough to have lights turn on 1 hour or even 45 minutes after CO2 turns on. Also, when you turn your CO2 off is flexible. If you run a shorter light cycle like mine for example, where I do 30 minutes ramp up, 6hrs max, 30 min ramp down, I like to have CO2 turn off 30 minutes before lights off rather than an hour before so my plants are at least getting 6 hours of peak CO2 exposure.

 

[GreggZ]

Just that it’s overly general. There are folks that have their CO2 optimized enough to have lights turn on 1 hour or even 45 minutes after CO2 turns on. Also, when you turn your CO2 off is flexible. If you run a shorter light cycle like mine for example, where I do 30 minutes ramp up, 6hrs max, 30 min ramp down, I like to have CO2 turn off 30 minutes before lights off rather than an hour before so my plants are at least getting 6 hours of peak CO2 exposure.

Pretty sure he actually meant that you should run CO2 24/7 and not just during the lighting period, as that is what he does. And I know @spawnerjp (Winston) and he can really grow plants, so when he speaks I listen.

But the reality is that plants don't uptake CO2 at night, in fact they dispel it. So while running CO2 24/7 doesn't hurt anything, it doesn't help anything either.

So I would say it's not a myth, it's a choice. I know loads of people who run CO2 only during the lighting period and are extremely successful, and I know one who runs it 24/7, and he is extremely successful too. So in my view do what you want. It likely makes little difference in the scheme of things.

 

[kokzhilee]

Swords, crypts and other "heavy root-feeders" need root tabs or active soils.

Could you elaborate why this is not true?

 

[Quagulator]

Could you elaborate why this is not true?

These plants are relatively common, and highly recommended (correctly or not) for people looking to buy their first plants across forums / websites / simple google searches. These plants respond immediately and dramatically positive to high nutrient loads, so when they are struggling people recommend to use fertilizers. Because these plants have typically large roots attached to them, people assumed they do the heavy lifting in terms of nutrient uptake. They then buy root tabs, place a concentrated nutrient source near the roots, and the plant responds within a few days. In reality, these plants will uptake large amount of nutrients in any way they possibly can, so it's no surprise that they pump out half a dozen large new leaves after a root tab has been used near them. I like to refer to them as "nutrient hogs" not "heavy root feeders" because if the water column is sufficiently fertilized, the plant will produce just as much new growth, debunking the "heavy root feeder" myth - they simple require access to high nutrient loads regardless of they can uptake it.


Other food for thought on this subject:

Large, thick roots are not where nutrients are up-taken - these thick roots provide structure for holding the plants in place, and areas in which fine root hairs can grow from. So when we uproot a sword / crypt, people see huge roots and think "wow these must be where nutrients are up-taken" and that is false - the fine root hairs are where nutrient exchanges happen. Now, uproot an 18" full healthy stem plant, and you will actually see more fine roots, with a lot more substrate attached to them. Soil / substrate attached to roots is a positive sign of root exudates, and there are a lot more exudates on my stem plant root systems vs my crypt / sword root systems whenever I uproot them.

Most substrates allow water (and thus water soluble nutrients) to easily and freely transfer from the water column into the substrate layers, and from the substrate layers into the water column. Because many of the nutrients found in root tabs are completely water soluble, they simple leach into the water column anyway.

Many root tabs made by large companies (Seachem, API etc.) contain over 70% inert material, and less than 1% actual plant macro nutrients that plants require relatively high quantities of. So when these are used, they are not supplying any of the NPK that these plants love most. So if they are growing well, they must be utilizing NPK from some other source (water column, substrate organic matter, substrate cation exchange etc.)

 

[JPog]

Could you elaborate why this is not true?

OK well @Quagulator beat me to it and stated it very well. The debate over whether you NEED root tabs and/or active soils for these plants is over. There are simply too many hobbyists growing these plants well for that to be valid.

i think what helps perpetuate this myth is when one doesn't dose the water column completely and they provide the additional nutrients via root tabs/active soils. So it's not the placement of nutrients, it's simply that they weren't being provided in the first place.

There are also some plants that seem to do better with ammonia/urea dosing and that is usually provided via the substrate. So it's not that the plant needs substrate dosing, but that it's being provided N in a different form.

 

[kokzhilee]

@Quagulator @JPog Thank you for the detailed explanations!

My crypts (axelrodi and flamingo) don’t do well compared to the past where they were in the same tank with the same substrate, dosing regime, same or similar conditions, what could be the missing link that my crypts weren’t flourish they used to be?

Here are my thoughts:
1. Nutrients depleted in Fluval stratum AS (Will it lose the CEC ability over time?). My AS is 1.5 years old. Maybe?

2. AS was blocked by detritus, impeding nutrient uptake. I siphon the substrate when I reset the tank, they are still not doing great. So this is unlikely the reason.

3. Insufficient dosing: This could be nutrients in general or specific nutrients. My crypts do not do well but my vallisneria nana are enjoying their life. I dose KH2PO3/K2HPO3 and KNO3 as macro (adjust accordingly based on the plant mass/growth) with Nilocg CSM+B (half EI). I alternate macro and micro dosing and wc on last day of the week.

I use tap water with dKH :0-1 (adjusted by muriatic acids), dGH: 11-12, pH: 6.5. Parameters are measured in degassed water.

Any ideas?

 

[JPog]

Let's get more controversial. Some concepts are in a transitory state where some feel it's a myth and other don't.

You need 10x turnover out the box

 

[BenB]

Let's get more controversial. Some concepts are in a transitory state where some feel it's a myth and other don't.

The KH/pH table doesn't work for estimating CO2.

 

[BigWave]

My crypts (axelrodi and flamingo) don’t do well compared to the past where they were in the same tank with the same substrate

Crypts in general are very hungry root feeders. Flamingo in paticular sends roots out half way across the tank if you let it. It also takes ages for this root system to get going then it shoots off like a rocket. They are very delicate when it comes to kH and will melt on ya, so be careful.

 

[kokzhilee]

Crypts in general are very hungry root feeders. Flamingo in paticular sends roots out half way across the tank if you let it. It also takes ages for this root system to get going then it shoots off like a rocket. They are very delicate when it comes to kH and will melt on ya, so be careful.

Thank you for the tips! Love it!

 

[Jellopuddinpop]

Crypts in general are very hungry root feeders. Flamingo in paticular sends roots out half way across the tank if you let it. It also takes ages for this root system to get going then it shoots off like a rocket. They are very delicate when it comes to kH and will melt on ya, so be careful.

I can confirm Flamingo being a hog. I planted 3 plants about a year ago. They were growing well, and started crowding the space, so I pulled them out to trim them up. Surprise, surprise, there were actually like 15 plants jammed into space for 5. No sooner did I pull them all and replant, it started shooting up all over the place, seemingly bypassing hardscape that should have made it impossible. I'm re-scaping in the spring (and don't want this plant anymore), and will probably be doing an RAOK for like 30 Crypt Flamingos.