Propagating T.Fluvitalis and Sygonathus

[CincyScaper 158]

The Tonina and Syngonathus continue to grow straight and tall. Based on Dennis’s posts and reading online, it appears that I would have to wait for them to branch out before splitting. But they don’t seem to branch out, anything to be done or just wait?

 

[mrmoss 11]

They'll form sideshoots in time. This sideshoots will grow into the size of adults in thickness. But for quick propagation. Every stem there you can cut in half. Plant the tops. Leave the bottoms. Both genus will sideshoot very fast. You'll find multiplication very easy in these two genus'. If you just leave them the tonina genus will take longer but they will form sideshoots. These are not slow plants, multiplying them is very rapid.

 

[CincyScaper 158]

They'll form sideshoots in time. This sideshoots will grow into the size of adults in thickness. But for quick propagation. Every stem there you can cut in half. Plant the tops. Leave the bottoms. Both genus will sideshoot very fast. You'll find multiplication very easy in these two genus'. If you just leave them the tonina genus will take longer but they will form sideshoots. These are not slow plants, multiplying them is very rapid.

Thanks. Very helpful.

 

[mrmoss 11]

Ive not met a single syng that bottoms do not sideshoot. I thought vichada but it proved me wrong. Or maybe syng bahia which may belong in the eriocaulon genus.

 

[riioKen]

Ive not met a single syng that bottoms do not sideshoot. I thought vichada but it proved me wrong. Or maybe syng bahia which may belong in the eriocaulon genus.

Sorry, I don't want to "hijack" the thread, but I think it's very related.

I plan to buy from a reputable hobbyist:

• Vichada
• lindosa
• uoapes

How is their growth pattern? I'd like to use these plants as transition from foreground to midground, behind small/carpeting plants.

I'll be able to form bushes? They'll take pruning well and in which way?

Thanks

 

[BenB 8]

I found that these make side shoots but slowly and better if you top them.
I also didn't get much root mass with these. Not sure if it was my growing condtions or they just don't make many roots.

@riioKen I only have experience with Vichada. Super slow grower. Somewhat difficult needing good CO2 and light. Prone to cyano in the crowns. They slowly make side shoots as well. I didn't grow it well.

 

[mrmoss 11]

Sorry, I don't want to "hijack" the thread, but I think it's very related.

I plan to buy from a reputable hobbyist:

• Vichada
• lindosa
• uoapes

How is their growth pattern? I'd like to use these plants as transition from foreground to midground, behind small/carpeting plants.

I'll be able to form bushes? They'll take pruning well and in which way?

Thanks

Vichada - midground
La lindosa - midground
Rio uaupes - foreground/midground

Growth patterns range from short dense to tall and lengthy depending on your parameters. Right now my uaupes are growing tall and lengthy im guessing because I need water column dosing.

For bushy areas plant closer together but make sure par is high enough so nothing is shaded. Not to confuse with thick and dense id say that way the plants will need more space. But grouping closer together should make the bush effect as long you have enough par.

The plants will sideshoot no matter what but topping and bottoms is the quickest way to propagate. After a certain age the plants will sideshoot and in fury. Very fast and easy to mass produce syngs.

Who you purchasing from? I can match + maybe make things cheaper plus give extras.

Uaupes 4-5 inches up from substrate

 

[riioKen]

Growth patterns range from short dense to tall and lengthy depending on your parameters. Right now my uaupes are growing tall and lengthy im guessing because I need water column dosing.

Hopefully I can grow it, and compact too ahaha. I'm placing in a 110x50x50cm with a weekaqua p1200 (10800lm) and APT e, kh0 GH 7 (planning to lower it at 5) and ph 5.1-5.2 during co2 injection.

Who you purchasing from? I can match + maybe make things cheaper plus give extras.

I'm from Italy, so a local hobbyist.

For bushy areas plant closer together but make sure par is high enough so nothing is shaded. Not to confuse with thick and dense id say that way the plants will need more space. But grouping closer together should make the bush effect as long you have enough par.

Afaik, I'll place them directly under the led,no shading. I think I'll be able to reach around 200 par (for sure more than 180).

Based on this, do you think I'm set for them to show their best? Or I'm lacking something?

 

[mrmoss 11]

Hopefully I can grow it, and compact too ahaha. I'm placing in a 110x50x50cm with a weekaqua p1200 (10800lm) and APT e, kh0 GH 7 (planning to lower it at 5) and ph 5.1-5.2 during co2 injection.



I'm from Italy, so a local hobbyist.

Afaik, I'll place them directly under the led,no shading. I think I'll be able to reach around 200 par (for sure more than 180).

Based on this, do you think I'm set for them to show their best? Or I'm lacking something?

Should be good. Aim gh 6 but dont think it matters.

 

[Burr740 75]

@BenB Tonina generally dont have many roots, not just you

As Mr Sing has pointed out any rooted bottom left in place will throw out new ones if its healthy, dont have to wait until you see some. Ideally leave bottoms 2"+

 

[BenB 8]

Don't know what I was thinking. I've grown Tonina and an easier Syno as well.
I think Tonina is easy. Have to have low KH and it branches but not as vigorously as other stem plants
The Synogoanthus Meta I got from Joe was similar. It grew more slowly though and was prone to cyano in the crown.

 

[CincyScaper 158]

Mine is the belem version, and i ended up trimming it down close to the substrate with little bit of stem due to the algae issues. It slowly sprouted new heads from the stem and it also readily branches out full stems as well. Still waiting for a cut stem of Tonina fluvitalis to sprout.

 

[riioKen]

Sooo, general consensus is that are that take trimming easy enough and can be self propagated easily?

 

[BenB 8]

Sooo, general consensus is that are that take trimming easy enough and can be self propagated easily?

As long as you can grow them. Some Synos are not so easy. IMO

 

[riioKen]

As long as you can grow them. Some Synos are not so easy. IMO

Water chemistry wise I should be spot on, kh0 and GH 7 (I can lower it), pH 5.1/2 during CO2 injection, apt e, 10800lm in a 275litres tank.

Funny enough, I can grow easy quinquangulare, ratnagiricum, macrandra mini type 4, Hygrophila chai but not Rotala indica bonsai that is considered easy


(This bba is due to 3 weeks of vacation,should be gone in no time hopefully, any tips on why it grow only on a specific portion of substrate?)

 

[CincyScaper 158]

Sooo, general consensus is that are that take trimming easy enough and can be self propagated easily?

Atleast with my experience with the Belem, i can say it is a slow process. The cut stem does not look good and mine got quite bit of algae.
There is a nice article on the 2hr aquarist website for the syngonathus sp. and in general he recommends not trimming them but rather just waiting for the side shoots to pop up and then to cut them off the main stem and then replant them. This seems the best way, but just did not work out for them due to algae issue affecting the entire plant.

 

[Burr740 75]

Low KH is the main thing. They do fine in my sand tanks with 0-1 kh

Some Synos are not so easy. IMO

True. Macrocaulon(belem), Rio Giant, Meta all pretty easy. Vichada and the formerly named Erio Bolivianum whatever its called are touchy

Spot the trend? Fine leaved variants tend to be a breeze long as KH is low. The ones with thicker, succulent-looking leaves tend to be finicky

 

[Burr740 75]

any tips on why it grow only on a specific portion of substrate?)

One of two possibilities. That area of the sub is breaking down or otherwise releasing dead organic matter, or that area is sitting in high flow. High flow areas tend to get bba because those areas make contact with more "milligrams" of bba food by virtue of coming into contact with more water volume. Its why outflow pipes often have it when its nowhere else to be found

BBA eats dissolved plant matter that has decayed/died and leeched into the water. Common term is 'dissolved organic waste'. which may or may not be technically accurate. It eats what comes from unhealthy leaves and the plants natural metabolic waste

BBA doesnt eat KNO3, PO4 etc. It eats that. Its why we do water changes, to remove this invisible algae food, not to "reset nutrients". Its why keeping dead or degrading leaves removed is so important. Those leaves make bba food and leech it into the water

Everybody's water contains a certain level of it. Using the milligram analogy, if the average spot in the tank makes contact with 10 millgrams of bba food per hour. The filter outflow might make contact with 1000 milligrams per hour. That spot literally touches every ML of water in the tank several times an hour. Thats why it gets bba

 

[riioKen]

That area of the sub is breaking down or otherwise releasing dead organic matter, or that area is sitting in high flow

High flow no, It Is underneath the lily pipes but it's the filter attached to the vertical CO2 reactor.

But the soil is 3 years old so breaking down maybe?

So syphoning the spot affected and doing more wc Is the fix?


As you can see, this is pre vacation, now is a bit more aggressive due to 3 weeks with no WC and 29° water temp

 

[Burr740 75]

It sounds like there may be a high volume of water passing over that area, not necessarily fast current. But yes give it a vac and see