Journal Dutchy Deeds Done Dirt Cheap

[artandsoul]

The color looks great! bright and not to blue like all the newish led lights looks better imo and cheapo gonna get some! Over the 36g I just got 22" tall the dual 40w setup probably be pretty high light have to run a strict timer for sure or maybe only use 1 40w 24" and it work for higher light stuff. There par rating is crazy high at 19"! The moss walls are fantastic did u start with grid at bottom to get them to stick to glass.

 

[Burr740]

The moss walls are fantastic did u start with grid at bottom to get them to stick to glass.

I didnt do anything! It just happened. There was a brief period, 2-3 months at most, I had a couple grow panels with moss on them stuck to these walls. It just stuck in a place or two and spread. Ive got a 20 long with mini xmas growing like this. And a 75 gal covered in 'mystery moss' which is just a blend of thai, willow and something else similar

If a little bit it ever sticks if you leave it alone itll happen. Might take a couple years lol, but itll happen

 

[Koan]

Probably needs more something. Does it get big or stay small?

Yea it's definitely starved for something, I've yet to have a leaf get more than 2" long

It's parked in the corner where it gets a bit of CO2 but not that much, that's probably the problem

 

[Unexpected]

You can get 2 for $55 on amazon

What PAR for the 40 watt? Best guess.

 

[Burr740]

What PAR for the 40 watt? Best guess.

Best guess would be about 60% based on pure mathematics

The 2' version of these is also 40watt, it has about the same output as the 4'. If youre on the product page that I linked, the "40 watt" option you see is for the 2' version of the same light

The "40 watt" I mentioned not to get confused by is a different brand of light that looks just like these but its a 4' "T8". Itll be a different brand on a different page, but it looks just like it

 

[JayP]

Lucky for me you missed the repeated Myrio Gold, thatd been a big one! Newb judges lol

Oh, I'm even below newb level. I'm a scrub. I need you to come get my garden tank on track.

 

[Koan]

Oh, I'm even below newb level. I'm a scrub.

​

 

[Koan]

definitely starved for something, I've yet to have a leaf get more than 2" long

This is APF's take on getting it to thrive, "sulk" is a good word for it

 

[GreggZ]

This is APF's take on getting it to thrive, "sulk" is a good word for it

View attachment 19961

Been growing the same patch of Barclaya for about a decade.

Bulb is buried, no root tabs, only water column dosing.

IME they are correct about moving it. Barclaya does not take change well.

Sometimes it causes the plant to go into something like a hibernation state. The leaves all fall off and you are left with a bulb in the soil.

If this happens plant the bulb where you will want it then don't touch it just forget about it. Then one day a month or two later a tiny new leave appears, and a month or so after that the leaves are over a foot long again.

You mentioned earlier yours turned green. Like Joe I have never seen it green. Very odd. Even the little baby planlets are red when they shoot up.

 

[Koan]

Haha don't rub it in

What pH and KH do you have?

My very sad, tiny, green Barclaya, from Joe untouched in this spot for the past 10 months




This is as big as the leaves ever get. As you can see the undersides get a little pale pink, that's the extent of it. KH 3 - 4, pH 7.4 , tucked in a corner that doesn't have super CO2 flow but it does have some.

Stems grow well in this tank. Interesting that the nearby carpeting has yet to off as well that patch of Eleocharis mini / Belem has been in for two months

That's also said to be a CO2 canary and substrate feeder, and that Aquasoil is depleted. I'm going to try some substrate fert +/- reduce the KH, and see what happens

 

[GreggZ]

Haha don't rub it in

What pH and KH do you have?

My very sad, tiny, green Barclaya, from Joe untouched in this spot for the past 10 months

View attachment 19975
View attachment 19976

This is as big as the leaves ever get. As you can see the undersides get a little pale pink, that's the extent of it. KH 3 - 4, pH 7.4 , tucked in a corner that doesn't have super CO2 flow but it does have some.

Stems grow well in this tank. Interesting that the nearby carpeting has yet to off as well that patch of Eleocharis mini / Belem has been in for two months

That's also said to be a CO2 canary and substrate feeder, and that Aquasoil is depleted. I'm going to try some substrate fert +/- reduce the KH, and see what happens

I doubt it's the Aquasoil. Mine was started in inert with only water column dosing, then in Aquasoil for a few years, then back to inert. Never a root tab.

Never noticed any difference between inert and Aquasoil at all.

My dKH is zero with VERY low pH. But that being said your water is not really hard so I doubt it's that.

Now what is it? Honestly I have no idea at all. I wonder if anyone else has seen it in a green state? I'm curious as to what can make that happen.

 

[Burr740]

@Koan Idk what they are calling hard water but I had it in blasting sand with KH in the 5-6 range for a few years before I ever had an aquasoil tank. That first pic I posted of my AGA tank was sand, and Ive never used much in the way of root tabs or O+. So like @GreggZ said I know for a fact it can feed exclusively, 100% from the water

Unlike Gregg my experience differs in it being moved. Ive never seen it balk at getting moved, ever. Mine get yanked around all the time

The only thing Ive ever noticed is occasionally a mature one can just stop growing and sit there doing nothing for a couple of months. Sometimes one will make several babies at the base during this time but not always. I think thats what is known as "going dormant". Itll just sit there doing nothing for literally 2-3 months. Then take off growing again

Back to water column dosing, I would venture a guess thats what yours needs - richer ferts in the water. Now dont tell me youre dosing exactly what Im dosing because Im gonna be stumped then! lol

It *might be your low co2 theory but I kinda doubt it. If youre dosing rich we'll go with that, hah. Im gonna go out on a limb and say it needs more macros in the water

Thats how these people come up with all these wild requirements - Dont move it! lol

Ive never seen a plant that cared if it was moved. Not one! Barclaya doesnt care about being moved just like AR and downoi and all the other plants I hear "experts" say dont move. The reason their plants cant take moving is because it resets the roots and their plants are used to a lean water column (except Greggz lol) and feeding primarily from the roots. Notice its always "low dosing" people advising not to move this or that

In those type of tanks they are right. Heres why

Pull any plant up and move it, leave all the roots intact, stem plant, rosette, sword crypt, any plant. Pull it up and move it, replant all the existing roots. Then wait a week or two and pull it up again. All those existing roots will be melted away and therell be lots of new ones. None of those existing roots survive

My experience is roots are dead the minute you pull them up. The plant will immediately, and rapidly make new ones. But if your plants are used to root feeding there's gonna be a transition period where it does poorly until it gets some new roots. If the plants are used to a rich water column, they will not even notice theyve been moved

Thats also why fast growing stems can often stunt if you replant a top in lean water. Pantanal, Rotalas, etc. It takes a minute for them to make new roots, and often the existing top is the sacrificial lamb to fuel new side stems. Its not even a problem, just the plant reacting to a change.

 

[Koan]

The only thing Ive ever noticed is occasionally a mature one can just stop growing and sit there doing nothing for a couple of months

Well this was a mature-ish when you sent it, it did have I think 7" leaves that it shed in transit although 10 months is a long dormancy

I would venture a guess thats what yours needs - richer ferts in the water

I would say "medium" dosing, by Hanna I'm keeping nitrates at 10 to 15ppm pretty consistently over the week

Another possibility is microtoxicity how funny would that be. Just had a water test and turns out my well water has WAY too much iron and manganese, I believe it was 18x EPA max on iron and 6x EPA on manganese.

Plus, I was definitely dosing micros too often and changing water too infrequently for most of the last 6 months Ended up poisoning a whole generation of shrimps

I just did a 60% reset with remineralized distilled 2 weeks ago, still walking it the rest of the way down, gradually for the shrimps sake, TDS is still around 250-300. Maybe it will start to improve as the micros continue to come down

Wonder if that's also why Pogo helferi downoi and Staurogyne repens have always refused to root for me

 

[Burr740]

NO3 at 10-15 should be enough but its the bare minimum Id say. We're all used to thinking if there's 2 ppm left in the water then plants have had all they want and thats the left over. Logically it makes perfect sense. But it doesnt work that way

Its like how everybody knows to keep 30-35 ppm of unused Ca in their water (why does nobody blink at that but act like 2 extra ppm NO3 is the devil?? lol) The main 3 macros operate the same way in that there needs to be a baseline present at all times - UNLESS you have a specifically rich substrate and your dosing is centered around that. Otherwise, something like 20/5-7/25-30 would be my absolute minimum water column levels for no3/po4/k

But that well water thing is a whole nother variable to the table

I'll hypothesize what could be preventing those you mentioned growing roots, extremely high Fe interfering with PO4 uptake. Those two directly affect each other. Low PO4 specifically shows up in some things not making many roots. The downoi and S repens are two prime candidates I would expect to see that with. Blyxa varieties are another

If I were you I'd dry dose about 10/5 NO3/PO4 all at once right now. Let K be whatever it is if using KNO3. And again after the next wc. See if anythiong good happens. It literally cant hurt anything

 

[Burr740]

@Koan it is also highly likely that most of that Fe is in an unavailable state for plants. And the exact same rules apply to Mn

AI can explain it much better than I can

"Most of the iron in tap water (and soil) quickly converts into a form that plants cannot use. Even if your water looks rusty or tests high for iron, your plants might still suffer from iron deficiency. Plants can only absorb iron when it is dissolved in water in specific chemical forms"

 

[Koan]

it is also highly likely that most of that Fe is in an unavailable state for plants

I wish! Apparently to way too much of it is also in Fe2+ soluble form, that has to be oxidized to Fe3+ to get out

Otherwise just a nice, inexpensive physical filter would take care of all of it..

 

[Koan]

I'd dry dose about 10/5 NO3/PO4 all at once right now. Let K be whatever it is if using KNO3. And again after the next wc

I'll give it a try!

 

[Burr740]

I'll give it a try!

Yes! Keep us updated with what happens please

How strong is your light btw?