Journal 150g VIV Planted Discus Build Thread

[gjcarew]

OK, so the stand is more or less complete. No more woodworking photos after this, I promise. The figure and coloration of the wood that I was able to source for this project is really something - more worthy of fine furniture than a "fish tank" stand, but it wasn't any more expensive than straight-grain wood, so why not? Combining two hobbies is always fun though.

My cousin/contractor will be able to start working around the end of the month. It isn't a very big project (in contractor terms) and most of it should be wrapped up by the 4th of July week. After that, a bit of plumbing, a little electrical work, and I can actually get the stand and aquarium positioned.

I'm thinking of getting a canister filter on the way so I can hook it up to my current 180g to start testing it out and getting some biology active in it. For a planted tank, circulation and mechanical filtration is probably more important than biological filtration, but it should help with the break-in.

My current 180g is running on two 2217 classic Eheims, each tied to an in-line Hydor heater. Also, there is a separate closed-loop circulation pump that runs the CO2 reactor and UV unit. It also allows me to do 50% water changes in 20 minutes just by turning a couple of valves. I like all of that, but the circulation pump is pretty noisy, especially for a TV room. This setup needs to be QUIET!

I'm considering these:

Eheim Thermofilter
OASE Biomaster Thermo 850
FZone Stainless Steel unit (basically mimics an ADA filter) - would also require a separate heater.

In concept, I'm leaning toward a large FZone unit with one of their bigger pumps. This way it could just be in-line with everything else on a single loop. I could turn up flowrates for water changes and set it more reasonably for regular use. It would also reduce the number of inlet/outlet pipes entering and exiting the tank, which is important. My current 180g uses a DIY spraybar along the entire back of the tank which really helps with circulation and I'm inclined to do this again, along with a DIY CO2 reactor.

For discus, careful temp control is important but I'd also like to minimize the amount of equipment visible in the tank. Choices, choices.....

I have a Biomaster 350 and I love it, but the 650 is much louder (at least mine was). I think the pumps on Oase's larger filters are underpowered. I do love the removable prefilter and inline heater, though.

I ended up running a DC pump inline with the Biomaster to make it quieter since it's in a bedroom. I got an overpowered pump then run it at 50% and it's close to silent.

 

[BryceM]

Good info on the Biomaster. Thanks. In general, I think the pumps on most canister filters are underpowered. Enough so that you can't rely on them to provide enough flow for most planted tanks.

After musing on this, I'm considering using an aquarium controller system like the Hydros. There will be enough $$$ in livestock in this tank that I want to keep things relatively redundant. This would give me the ability to set alarms and carefully monitor pH on my phone, install a leak detector, and careful temp control. I had a CO2 solenoid get stuck open once and nuked almost 100% of my fish. That was with barbs and tetras. With discus, it would be a complete disaster. Besides, the engineer in me geeks out on this stuff.

There are some thoughts out there that in-line heaters like the Hydors aren't super reliable, but if I run one from a controller with a separate temp input, it should be redundant enough.

 

[*Ci*]

I have two Oase BioMaster 850’s on my 84g. One is quiet, one is noisier. I think it just depends on the individual pump, although I can’t see why that would be the case, lol! Mine are located under the floor of the room, so I can’t hear them anyway.
With two, the flow is just fine for my tank. I love the built in heaters and pre-filters - so easy to clean.

 

[BryceM]

No photos today.....

So, I've got a plan together...... at least the beginnings of one.

On my 180g tank, which I set up around 12-13 years ago, I opted to do three inflow/outflows in total. The main circuit is driven by a (rather noisy) circulation pump. That loop contains a large in-tank inlet --> pump --> CO2 reactor --> UV sterilizer --> return to tank via a spraybar along the back wall directed upward. The other loops each contain a classic Eheim 2217 and an in-line Hydor heater. 6 total pipes coming up and over the back wall. That, plus a pH meter is visually a little too much junk for a clean appearance.

For this, I'm looking for a cleaner, simpler look, but I'm really hooked on the spraybar to eliminate dead spots. I'm thinking stainless-steel inlet & outlet tubes with a black PVC spraybar, mostly hidden in the substrate. I have a 22l big stainless canister filter coming (from Aqua Rocks) and I'll run it on a single circuit like this:

Inlet strainer --> oversized variable speed pump --> canister filter --> in-line 300W heater --> Flow Meter (to satisfy my inner engineer) --> DIY CO2 reactor --> return to tank. Maybe I'll do UV..... can't decide yet. I'll build the circuit so it's easy to add later if needed.

I'm thinking of a Hydros controller to run the heater, CO2 solenoid, monitor flow rates, a leak detector loop, and the ability to send alarms to my cell phone if a solenoid sticks open or if there's a leak.

Why oversize the pump? So that I can do rapid water changes. I'll have a 105g reservoir to store my RO/tap mix which will allow me to do up to 75% WC's when desired.

Chihiros lights are on the way too. They're almost certainly overpowered, but that will give me the ability to do a powerful noon burst which I think is really helpful for deep tanks.

I pressed my wife and son into service yesterday and we got the cabinet from the shop into the basement. The sucker is heavy! In a few days we'll start tearing up carpet and baseboard for the little remodel.

Also, I'm still musing about the substrate. When I first checked out the Landen Aqua Soil, it seemed like it was inexpensive compared to ADA AquaSoil Amazonia. Then I looked again..... It's actually not that much cheaper. I'm thinking I'll need a veritable mountain of the stuff, aiming for about 2.5-3 inches of depth. The math says I need about 70 liters, but that seems like tons. That's fourteen 5 liter bags. Now I remember why I haven't changed out the Eco Complete in the other setup.

 

[BryceM]

Construction work should begin tomorrow. It's a pretty small remodel, as remodels go. A simple wall, a door, a bit of tile, and I'll have a nice utility room behind the tank for the RO/reservoir system, filtration, pumps, and everything else.

The canister filter and filter media are here. Holy huge. The VIVID-II Chihiros lights are also here and are insanely bright. For the tank I'm envisioning, they're clearly overkill, but I'll have infinite options in the future. Landen substrate and the circulation pump were ordered today. Within the next couple of weeks I hope to start putting it all together.

For a stocking list, I plan on starting with a school of rummies and a school of cories. We'll let the tank stabilize with those fellows and then add the big fish after the aquascape is coming together and the plants are established a bit. I've got some general hardscape and plant ideas, but nothing solid yet. It will probably take a bit to figure out what works and what doesn't at 84-85 degree temps. No rush on the discus or altums. I want their home to be pretty dialed-in before they show up. I'm also intrigued by a few Discrossus filamentosus if I can find them.

Photos when the construction gets going.

 

[spencernw]

Very cool stuff. Love the stand. What field of engineering are you in?

 

[BryceM]

Ha. I graduated as a Civil Engineer, then went to Med school. Now, I’m a practicing an orthopedic surgeon.

 

[Art]

I'm thinking of a Hydros controller to run the heater, CO2 solenoid, monitor flow rates, a leak detector loop, and the ability to send alarms to my cell phone if a solenoid sticks open or if there's a leak.

Have you considered the Neptune Apex? Been around longer and very solid. That's what I use.

 

[BryceM]

I’ve looked at the Apex, and if I was going the reef-route, I’d probably do that since it seems a bit more capable in terms of custom programming.

For this setup, I *** think *** this gives me the functionality I need at a lower price-point, but not having experience with either one, I could be missing something.

 

[Art]

I use the Neptune Apex system because of its reliability and time tested design. The Jr design may give you what you need at a $299 price point. I think BRS is running a special now. I have the regular Apex system so I can control and monitor many pieces of equipment at once. It was slightly more than the Hydros system but was more tested than Hydros. It works 100% for freshwater.

I don't know about now but there were a lot of complaints about the Hydros system on the Reef 2 Reef forum.

 

[BryceM]

@Art, I appreciate the comments. I will look more closely at the Neptune.

Finally, some big progress:

At the beginning of today (yes, that's some dead Anubias barteri in the bucket):

After 5 hours work (mostly by my cousin, with me offering token support). The little opening in the drywall will eventually be much larger and will hold a regular interior door.

This will be the spot for the RO unit, storage reservoir, CO2 tanks, pumps, canister filter, and everything else. Obviously I need to install some lights:

Cut a few holes in the wall to access the existing plumbing, get a plumber to make the connections, repair the drywall, tape & texture the drywall, paint, lay the tile (which will extend about 5' out from the wall, grout the tile, and then we'll be in the business of actually setting up an aquarium.

 

[Unexpected]

I went with Hydros just for the entry price and I like the proprietary add-ons. Their ATO kit is dead silent and rope leak detection is pretty neat also. Once you start expanding the system, the price really isn’t any cheaper than Apex. Keep that in mind. Hydros is new and if course will have some growing pains. So far, it’s working flawlessly for me and I’m satisfied my purchase. I was going to get the Apex Jr. but there seems to be a problem with it generating a slew of 1 star reviews over at BRS. I made a DIY board for it and here’s what the app looks like.

 

[BryceM]

I really appreciate everyone's input here. At this point, I've ordered essentially all of the major components of the build. What remains is a bit of construction work to finish the spot for the tank and a bunch of planning regarding the hardscape. I did some research this week and decided to follow Art's advice and go with the Neptune Apex system. Most of the reviews of flowmeters (for either Neptune or Hydros) say they're nothing but trouble so we'll skip that.

Deciding on a circulation pump for the system has also been a challenge. In a way, along with the controller, it's the heart and soul of the setup. The pump will have two possible inflows - one from the aquarium and the other from a 105g RO storage reservoir. It will have three possible outputs. One to a drain, one to a hose (so that I can fill up a nearby 46g bowfront quarantine setup - been hauling buckets long enough!), and one that is the regular return to the aquarium. The usual route will take water through in-line heaters, through the canister filter, and through the DIY CO2 reactor. I bought a DC pump from the folks at Fzone and tried it out a bit. I deliberately oversized the pump to allow for quick water changes and it has 20 different speed settings. It's also supposed to be quiet. We'll see how it works. I'm considering putting this unit on my existing 180g tank to replace the very noisy pump that has been running nonstop for 12 years and buying a Neptune pump for this new build. Reviews for almost any DC pump are mixed, and it seems some folks have had issues with the Neptune unit failing prematurely.

Just for fun I've ordered a section of 3" clear PVC pipe so that I can actually see what happens inside the reactor. I'm very much opposed to in-tank diffusers, mostly because a reactor is theoretically 100% efficient. It's not scientifically difficult to dissolve CO2 in water.

I'm still trying to decide on the exact hardscape. I'm thinking a slightly off-center central feature of rock & wood - I've never done that before. I'm still very much a student of what will and what won't grow at 83-84 degrees. I'm leaning toward a medium-light setup, focusing on the fish with enough variety and texture in the plants to make it attractive. I'd love to feature some larger plants like swords or Lagenandras with some taller grass-like plants. I've always wanted to try Crypt balansae but haven't been able to source it. Anyone know if Blyxa japonica/auberti would do OK at higher temps? Cyperus helferi is an old favorite that would work too.

Oh.... and one final thing. My brother-in-law saw the stand yesterday and said "You built that??"

 

[Art]

follow Art's advice and go with the Neptune Apex system

Awesome! I hope it works for you. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[BryceM]

Construction. Contractors.

Even when they're friends and family, it takes three times as long as anticipated. Plumber this week. Carpenter hopefully by the end of the week. Maybe, possibly, we'll have the aquarium wet in a week or two. I plan on running it with nothing in it for a couple of days to test out the plumbing, pump, canister, reactor, and to verify there are no leaks. Then substrate, lights, and, heaven forbid, even a few plants and fish.

More photos when something happens.

 

[BryceM]

Well, the plumbers are done. In one convenient spot I have well water (GH 16, KH 12), soft water (to supply the RO unit), and a drain.

Now, the contractor needs to:
- patch the holes
- hang the door
- tape and texture
- install the tile
- reinstall the baseboard

Then we can paint, and start assembling everything. All of this requires tons of planning, all in the name of easy water changes, quite a bit of automation (still, virtually nothing next to many reef systems), and safety (pH monitoring, leak monitoring, temp monitoring, etc.) I'm certain more than a couple of bugs will show up along the way.

Here's the staging area. Thank goodness for spare bedrooms. See if you can identify anything.

 

[BryceM]

Still at it. Still waiting for construction stuff.

Remodels suck. Even small ones.

Hopefully a week away from painting and tile. Then, I can finally move the stand in and position the tile.

So slow.......

 

[Art]

This is a dream build. Thanks for sharing it, @BryceM.

I have no doubt that all this planning is going to pay off in the long run stability of the tank and, quite frankly, your sanity. Keep us posted!

 

[BryceM]

As I said earlier, remodels suck. The time required for this exceeded my estimate terribly. Fortunately, we seem to be "over the hump". Unfortunately, tile will have to wait until next week due to my cousin's work schedule. The drywall is now done, taped, textured, and ready to be painted, which will happen tomorrow. My wife enjoys painting, so that's a huge win!

Now that the setup is nearing completion, the plumbing should work very nicely. One water supply is soft water (from the ion-exchange home water softener). That will be the source for the RO unit. The other supply is hard water from the well. I could have survived making RO from the hard well water, but the water pipes were relatively close to each other, so why not..... This should keep my RO membrane going much longer. I'll mix RO and well water in a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio, which seems to be working reasonably well in the other tank. The drain will allow for massive water changes by just turning a couple of valves. Really, this is somewhere between absolute necessity and a tremendous luxury for a discus tank.

When contemplating this build I toyed for a short 30 seconds or so just putting the whole setup somewhere where a Python would be required for WCs. With my job and other stuff, there's no realistic way I'd be able to sustain that for the long haul. Ask me how I know. Thus, the eternally expensive, frustrating, but ultimately very nice remodel.

Today's progress was a trip to the hardware store for paint, grout color additive, and sundry supplies. So, more or less, my man cave is now a quasi-fish room. A sort of de facto quarantine tank (ancient 46g bowfront) will be along the side wall to the right.

The pump room isn't huge, but it should have plenty of storage space for all my random "fish junk" and it will be out of sight. We're a long way from finished, but here's where we're at now:

What remains:
- Prime and paint the wall
- Paint the adjacent walls to cover the overspray and blending of texture
- Ditto for the ceiling
- Paint the door and other trim
- Install a fancy door header to match the rest of the house
- Install the tile
- Grout the tile
- Replace and paint the baseboard
- Put down new tack strip and tidy up the carpet edge
- Install door hardware
- Cut holes in the brand-new wall for the pipe and light cord penetrations
- Then, God-willing, glue some pipes together, actually get some stuff wet, cobble together an aquascape, buy some plants and fish, and just enjoy the thing........
- Much, much more to come.

 

[Art]

Thanks for the update! Hang in there, man. Remodeling always brings surprises and frustration. It will all be worth it in the end.

Knowing how thorough you are, I'm sure you've done this. However, as I've made this mistake in the past, I will ask. Have you measured and measured again how the stand will line up with everything now that the pipes are in place? In a past build, I was off by an inch and that created quite the headache.