Front Loading and 50% Water Changes

[Unexpected]

Man I was just over on my journal typing a post with charts etc and all the cool kids are here discussing the same exact thing in a way more coherent fashion.

Thank you @Unexpected for this one. It’s exactly what I think I’ve got going on.

lol, yeah. I had something going on. Who knew it would only take 3 weeks for a problem to arise. When I dropped to 50% changes, I was asking myself is this going to be okay. I also noticed some GSA on my Penny Wort, so this explains things now.

 

[Unexpected]

Now the question of GH, I’m front loading this too. Maybe a dose or 2 is needed here as well?

 

[GreggZ]

Totals for the week are 18/6/24 and .45 Fe. Thats for whole tank volume with 50% water changes

Interesting. So max accumulation 36/12/48. You are higher than me these days I'm at 30-10-40.

But I don't if I can go any higher the dang tank is weedy enough as it is!!

 

[Burr740]

Interesting. So max accumulation 36/12/48. You are higher than me these days I'm at 30-10-40.

But I don't if I can go any higher the dang tank is weedy enough as it is!!

Another difference is your heavy fish load generates some additional macros on top of the dosing. Only one of my tanks has fish, and their total weight would probably amount to only a couple bows. So we're probably not that far off as far as what the plants actually get

When I first went back to 50% I just did a regular 3x week with the same recipe which gave a weekly total of 13.5/4.5/18 (27/9/36 max accumulation) That wasnt enough for several species so I started going with a double dose after the wc, and thats been a pretty sweet spot across the board for 3-4 months now

Now the question of GH, I’m front loading this too. Maybe a dose or 2 is needed here as well?

Anything youre front loading based on changed volume is gonna decrease with smaller water changes. Im a firm believer in setting the GH where it goes right after the water change, as opposed to spreading it out over multiple doses.

Plants arent sucking up Ca and Mg like macros but the concentration of both of those strongly affects what happens with many other nutrients. I'd sort that out in the storage container

 

[riioKen]

When I first went back to 50% I just did a regular 3x week with the same recipe which gave a weekly total of 13.5/4.5/18 (27/9/36 max accumulation) That wasnt enough for several species so I started going with a double dose after the wc, and thats been a pretty sweet spot across the board for 3-4 months now

So you do double dose at wc day + 3 dose weekly?

My wc day is Sunday, I do double dose after wc, tank volume, + 1 dose Wednesday and + 1 Friday, then again double dose Sunday after wc.

But I'm thinking into adding another dose during the week or increasing the dosage. Instead 40ml for 4-1.5-6, something like 50-60ml.

Off topic do you do your ferts more concentrated?

 

[Burr740]

So you do double dose at wc day + 3 dose weekly?

My wc day is Sunday, I do double dose after wc, tank volume, + 1 dose Wednesday and + 1 Friday, then again double dose Sunday after wc.

But I'm thinking into adding another dose during the week or increasing the dosage. Instead 40ml for 4-1.5-6, something like 50-60ml.

Off topic do you do your ferts more concentrated?

Macros I do what you said, 2 doses after the wc, skip a day, another dose, skip a day, one more. WC on day 6 or 7

Your plants are doing great from what I can see, Id be hesitant to change anything

My macro solution adds 4.5/1.2/6.5 per dose. The dose is 2 ml per 10 gal. Not much more ppm would dissolve at 2 ml per 10 gal. But of course you could raise the ML to like 4 ML per 10 gal, etc, if you wanted to make it stronger (more ppm per dose). But I really dont need a stronger dose, this works perfectly doing 2x after the wc.

 

[riioKen]

The dose is 2 ml per 10 gal

so for an almost 90g is around 18ml, i dose 40ml for 90g, same ppm as yours. I had problem dissolving the K2SO4, thats why i did it way less concentrated. With my schedule, i finish a bottle every month or a bit less. Atleast i have always fresh ferts lol.

Your plants are doing great from what I can see, Id be hesitant to change anything

Yep, for now everything seems fine, even eriocaulon are doing good (ive spotted today few new leaves from centrolepsis drummiana "blood vomit"), AR both mini and kleines are in the best shape i ever had (AR mini had always gsa and hair algae, now is algae free, im so proud), the only a bit more annoyed by something is Ludwigia Pantanal, but for some reason, i'm starting to think that the light/par aren't enough. The crown is blood red and healthy the bottom is curly and ugly. I need to experiment a bit more

 

[Burr740]

so for an almost 90g is around 18ml, i dose 40ml for 90g, same ppm as yours. I had problem dissolving the K2SO4, thats why i did it way less concentrated. With my schedule, i finish a bottle every month or a bit less. Atleast i have always fresh ferts lol.

You probably wont get that much K at 2 ml per 10 gal using K2SO4. I use kcl which dissolves a lot easier.

Could probably use 3 ML per 10 gal with so4

 

[TRyan]

I dont have one. To me the variation in plant uptake at any given time, relative to what the overall plant mass is, makes it pointless to aim for a certain amount in the water because the ideal is never a static number

Although I can tell you roughly what the totals in the water are, or need to be, for my reference I just go by total dose per week and adjust from there

My tanks grow fast and get hacked down regularly, and not everything at the same time. This overgrown 75 gal monstrocity is gonna suck up a ton more nutrients than one with everything trimmed low and neat.

View attachment 4512

Next week this one will be low and neat while two more become just like it. So accumulation and uptake change dramatically, impossible to monitor much less target. Totals for the week are a known constant, an accurate number easy to go up or down from

Hey Joe, will this lush tank here that you're dosing 18/6/24 before a trim receive the same dosing 18/6/24 after you trim it low and neat? Or do you reduce nutrient levels to match plant mass? If so, what would those numbers look like?

 

[Unexpected]

I use kcl

Where do you source KCL?

 

[Burr740]

Hey Joe, will this lush tank here that you're dosing 18/6/24 before a trim receive the same dosing 18/6/24 after you trim it low and neat? Or do you reduce nutrient levels to match plant mass? If so, what would those numbers look like?

I rarely change the dosing. Occasionally I might do a single dose after wc instead of the usual double, or if a tank's really overgrown might throw an extra dose in at some point. But its not something I have a set routine for and probably 90% of the time I dont change anything

Where do you source KCL?

I like Alpha Chemicals and Greenway Biotech. Search 'KCL 5 lbs' on amazon or ebay, they'll show up. Can also buy direct from their site

 

[TRyan]

I rarely change the dosing. Occasionally I might do a single dose after wc instead of the usual double, or if a tank's really overgrown might throw an extra dose in at some point. But its not something I have a set routine for and probably 90% of the time I dont change anything



I like Alpha Chemicals and Greenway Biotech. Search 'KCL 5 lbs' on amazon or ebay, they'll show up. Can also buy direct from their site

Thank you!

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

Okay, since this is the first time I have front loaded I am trying to figure out what to dose my storage tank water. I have a 40gal tank that holds ~35gal after taking out the inch or so of substrate. I have a 55gal storage drum. My targets are:
NO3 30ppm
PO4 10ppm
K 40ppm
Ca 24ppm
Mg 8ppm

I plan to change between 70-75% of the water weekly so 25gals. Am I correct in assuming I want to dose the storage barrel to those numbers?

 

[Unexpected]

Okay, since this is the first time I have front loaded I am trying to figure out what to dose my storage tank water. I have a 40gal tank that holds ~35gal after taking out the inch or so of substrate. I have a 55gal storage drum. My targets are:
NO3 30ppm
PO4 10ppm
K 40ppm
Ca 24ppm
Mg 8ppm

I plan to change between 70-75% of the water weekly so 25gals. Am I correct in assuming I want to dose the storage barrel to those numbers?

I dosed the storage to those exact numbers.

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

I dosed the storage to those exact numbers.

Okay, I guess where I am a bit confused on if I am correct on this. Is do I need to change the dose if I plan to get 2 W.C. out of that storage barrel?

 

[Unexpected]

Okay, I guess where I am a bit confused on if I am correct on this. Is do I need to change the dose if I plan to get 2 W.C. out of that storage barrel?

No, the key element is doing the large water change. Greater than 60% is ideal. You have the storage water parameters set to what you want the tank to be. Every so often I would do a near 90% water change just to make sure the parameters were brought back in line just in case something went out of wack.

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

No, the key element is doing the large water change. Greater than 60% is ideal. You have the storage water parameters set to what you want the tank to be. Every so often I would do a near 90% water change just to make sure the parameters were brought back in line just in case something went out of wack.

Okay got it.

 

[GreggZ]

You want to dose the NEW water to those levels. So let's say the storage tank is sitting at your desired levels. You remove 35 gallons, you dose to raise the new 35 gallons to those levels. That way your level is stable.

So in your case the storage tank is sitting at 30ppm NO3. You remove 35 gallons. Then you add 35 gallons to fill the tank back up. So you add a dose that raises 35 gallons to 30 ppm NO3.

If you do two water changes in a week, each time you dose the storage tank back up to your levels.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

You want to dose the NEW water to those levels. So let's say the storage tank is sitting at your desired levels. You remove 35 gallons, you dose to raise the new 35 gallons to those levels. That way your level is stable.

So in your case the storage tank is sitting at 30ppm NO3. You remove 35 gallons. Then you add 35 gallons to fill the tank back up. So you add a dose that raises 35 gallons to 30 ppm NO3.

If you do two water changes in a week, each time you dose the storage tank back up to your levels.

I hope that makes sense.

This does. And I believe this confirms what I was originally thinking. Basically I am keeping the 55gal storage tank at the numbers I want the tank.

 

[GreggZ]

This does. And I believe this confirms what I was originally thinking. Basically I am keeping the 55gal storage tank at the numbers I want the tank.

Exactly!