Journal Born on the Bayou (low tech)

[JuJuFish]

I'm curious, what are you dosing and how much for this tank? GH,KH?

Hi @Unexpected. I use GLA PPS-Pro instructions for mixing my macros which is supposed to yield 1ppm NO3, 0.1ppm PO4, and 1.33ppm K for a 10ml daily dose to my 100 gallon tank. I tried front loading but I only do 30% weekly water changes so it wasn’t working well for me. So now I dose roughly 25 ml every other day. I’ve tried to reduce that but my big sword starts to suffer with anything less.

For micros I use Joe’s mix, 5ml every day. I’ve tried different doses, dosing every other day, etc. but this seems to work the best.

I have unusable tap water so I’m forced to use RO. I remineralize with CaSo4, MgSO4, and K2CO3 to a Gh of 6 and Kh of 1-2. I have cherry shrimp in most of my tanks.

Hope this answers your questions. Let me know if I missed something or wasn’t clear!

 

[Unexpected]

Hi @Unexpected. I use GLA PPS-Pro instructions for mixing my macros which is supposed to yield 1ppm NO3, 0.1ppm PO4, and 1.33ppm K for a 10ml daily dose to my 100 gallon tank. I tried front loading but I only do 30% weekly water changes so it wasn’t working well for me. So now I dose roughly 25 ml every other day. I’ve tried to reduce that but my big sword starts to suffer with anything less.

For micros I use Joe’s mix, 5ml every day. I’ve tried different doses, dosing every other day, etc. but this seems to work the best.

I have unusable tap water so I’m forced to use RO. I remineralize with CaSo4, MgSO4, and K2CO3 to a Gh of 6 and Kh of 1-2. I have cherry shrimp in most of my tanks.

Hope this answers your questions. Let me know if I missed something or wasn’t clear!

Perfect, thank you.

 

[Kwyet]

Why does it matter how much water you’re changing when doing front loading?

 

[JuJuFish]

Personally I only like front loading when doing 75%+. With less wc volume you wind up with either a huge surplus at the beginning or a deficit at the end

He has a more lengthy explanation somewhere but I can’t find it now. @Burr740 ???

 

[Kwyet]

He has a more lengthy explanation somewhere but I can’t find it now. @Burr740 ???

I won’t hijack your thread with it. I’ll go back and reread all of that, although I think a ton of low-tech people do one weekly dose of ferts after the water change. I suppose their expectations are just different.

 

[Koan]

reread all of that

Here is some

 

[Kwyet]

Here is some

Thanks! It still seems to mostly be talking about high energy tanks. Actually, I’ve read everything on this site, but when it gets into the nitty gritty of some of this stuff, it just doesn’t sink in.
I’m just not getting why it would make that much difference in a low energy tank.
When I was gone for nearly 3 weeks, my Dutch tank kept getting ferts because it’s automated, while my low-tech tanks didn’t get any. They all had one small water change (10%) about halfway through. I tested everything when I returned, before doing normal water changes. Some of the low-tech tanks, and the middle energy shrimp tank, had 0 nitrates and gH and kH were pretty close to normal, but plants were still growing well, and they weren’t having algae problems. So what difference does it make if ferts get lean toward the end of a week, and get a bump at the beginning of a week? Does it only matter in tanks that are growing “challenging” plants? Or dosing according to EI? Or in tanks with high CO2? Is it just a matter of how fast the plants grow?

 

[ElleDee]

Thanks! It still seems to mostly be talking about high energy tanks. Actually, I’ve read everything on this site, but when it gets into the nitty gritty of some of this stuff, it just doesn’t sink in.
I’m just not getting why it would make that much difference in a low energy tank.
When I was gone for nearly 3 weeks, my Dutch tank kept getting ferts because it’s automated, while my low-tech tanks didn’t get any. They all had one small water change (10%) about halfway through. I tested everything when I returned, before doing normal water changes. Some of the low-tech tanks, and the middle energy shrimp tank, had 0 nitrates and gH and kH were pretty close to normal, but plants were still growing well, and they weren’t having algae problems. So what difference does it make if ferts get lean toward the end of a week, and get a bump at the beginning of a week? Does it only matter in tanks that are growing “challenging” plants? Or dosing according to EI? Or in tanks with high CO2? Is it just a matter of how fast the plants grow?

I think this is curious too, but if I had to guess it may be because the substrate is inert, so the tank lacks the nutrient buffering offered from active substrates and cause plants to be more affected by nutrient fluctuations in the water column? This tank in particular might have a higher nutrient demand than other low tech tanks maybe, given some heavy feeders and floating plants? Unless my mental math is way off, I think @JuJuFish is probably dosing higher than most other low tech tanks, sure, but without additional nutrients from the substrate who knows how it really compares?

Amazing tank as always and I still believe every non CO2 tank should be bothering you daily about how you achieved this amazing tank.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I've been keeping tabs on this tank since this journal was started and it has influenced my next set up.

 

[JuJuFish]

Unless my mental math is way off, I think @JuJuFish is probably dosing higher than most other low tech tanks, sure, but without additional nutrients from the substrate who knows how it really compares?

Hi guys, I agree I probably dose more than other low tech tanks. I’ve tried repeatedly to lower the dosing but the large sword develops pale new growth and starts to look icky in general. My current regime is keeping everything stable for now so I’ve decided not to fiddle with it. I’m sure I’ll forget that decision at some point and will try it again.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I've been keeping tabs on this tank since this journal was started and it has influenced my next set up.

Wow, thanks so much @ElleDee. I’ve followed your posts here and elsewhere for quite a while and have certainly learned a lot from you. Thanks for your contributions to the hobby.

 

[JuJuFish]

I found this screenshot that I saved ages ago. Not sure if it relates to low or high tech tanks but thought I’d share it anyway. From @Burr740

 

[Burr740]

Wow thats a blast from the past! lol. My thinking has evolved a little bit since then

Not sure when that post was but I did spend 2-3 years doing 70-80% water changes and front loading macros for the entire week right after. But nowadays I really dont like changing that much water as a regular routine. My only reason for saying that is once I went back to 50-60% everything just ran smoother and did better

But I also changed the standard 3x week routine, because even at 50% water change its a big drop in nutrient levels for just a single dose. What I do now is front load 50% of the weeks total right after the wc. Then 2 more 25% doses on alternating days through the week in typical 3x week fashion. This keeps a more stable level of macros in the water column

The idea originated from needing an extra dose of my macro solution for the real high energy tanks. So I started doing a double dose of macros after the wc, followed by 2 more singles through the week as usual, for a total of 4 doses per week. This was a couple of years ago and I gotta say it is noticeably the best routine Ive ever used

So thats how the 50%-25%-25% idea came into being. I believe its a good method to apply to any routine that changes 50% or more water per week

As far as those big 75-80% water changes, they just arent needed under normal circumstances. If I was changing that much water now, I would front load about 75% of the weeks total right after the water change. Then add the other 25% around mid-week. Or maybe split it in half for 2x doses of 12.5% on alternating days in typical 3x week fashion

But except in cases of a BBA outbreak that is specifically the result of built up organic waste, I see zero reason to change that much water per week. Strictly speaking for plants of course, not talking about with Discus etc. Plus you'll save big on ferts!

The other correction Id make in the quoted post, I wouldnt dose macros daily with anything above 25-30% water changes. I know a lot of folks do have success with daily macros and bigger wc. Cant argue with that, I just personally wouldnt do it

 

[Kwyet]

Wow thats a blast from the past! lol. My thinking has evolved a little bit since then

Not sure when that post was but I did spend 2-3 years doing 70-80% water changes and front loading macros for the entire week right after. But nowadays I really dont like changing that much water as a regular routine. My only reason for saying that is once I went back to 50-60% everything just ran smoother and did better

But I also changed the standard 3x week routine, because even at 50% water change its a big drop in nutrient levels for just a single dose. What I do now is front load 50% of the weeks total right after the wc. Then 2 more 25% doses on alternating days through the week in typical 3x week fashion. This keeps a more stable level of macros in the water column

The idea originated from needing an extra dose of my macro solution for the real high energy tanks. So I started doing a double dose of macros after the wc, followed by 2 more singles through the week as usual, for a total of 4 doses per week. This was a couple of years ago and I gotta say it is noticeably the best routine Ive ever used

So thats how the 50%-25%-25% idea came into being. I believe its a good method to apply to any routine that changes 50% or more water per week

As far as those big 75-80% water changes, they just arent needed under normal circumstances. If I was changing that much water now, I would front load about 75% of the weeks total right after the water change. Then add the other 25% around mid-week. Or maybe split it in half for 2x doses of 12.5% on alternating days in typical 3x week fashion

But except in cases of a BBA outbreak that is specifically the result of built up organic waste, I see zero reason to change that much water per week. Strictly speaking for plants of course, not talking about with Discus etc. Plus you'll save big on ferts!

The other correction Id make in the quoted post, I wouldnt dose macros daily with anything above 25-30% water changes. I know a lot of folks do have success with daily macros and bigger wc. Cant argue with that, I just personally wouldnt do it

So what about the idea that you shouldn’t front load a low-tech tank that’s getting a smaller water change? That was my original question, because my normal routine on all low-energy tanks is to do a 30% weekly water change and then add all the macros and micros for the week right after the water change.
All of them are inert substrates as well.

 

[Burr740]

So what about the idea that you shouldn’t front load a low-tech tank that’s getting a smaller water change? That was my original question, because my normal routine on all low-energy tanks is to do a 30% weekly water change and then add all the macros and micros for the week right after the water change.
All of them are inert substrates as well.

I think front loading it all is fine with low tech, for a couple of reasons. One is things move a lot slower without co2 and big light, esp including nutrient uptake. Another is most low tech arent growing the finicky stuff that consistency matters for

Although Id still probably split the micros up to a couple times a week. Some of the micros dont stick around very long in an available state. They dont need to and arent meant to (including the sm bit of Fe gluconate in BurrAqua) Its probably not a big deal because micros dont need to maintain a certain concentration like macros. A little 'as needed' sip here and there is all the plants need. Still a week is a long time between doses, esp with inert substrate

It all comes down to how the plants do. If things look good after a month or two doing it that way, then its fine no doubt. Any weird or hard to explain issues, then it might be worth changing that up and see if it helps

It should be totally fine for macros though, imo

 

[Kwyet]

I think front loading them all is fine with low tech, for a couple of reasons. One is things move a lot slower without co2 and big light, including nutrient uptake. Another is most low tech arent growing the finicky stuff that it really matters for

Although Id still probably split the micros up at least 2x. Some of the those dont stick around very long in an available state. They dont need to and arent meant to (including the sm bit of Fe gluconate in BurrAqua) Its likely not a big deal because micros dont need to maintain a certain concentration like macros. A little 'as needed' sip here and there is all the plants need, and all you really want. Still a week is a long time between doses

But it would all come down to how the plants do. If things look good after a month or two doing it that way then its fine. If there's any weird unexplained issues, might be worth changing that up and see if it helps

But its absolutely fine for macros, imo

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[JuJuFish]

I finally had to do something about the sword in the front. It’s one of my favorite plants but it was just getting too large for the tank. Before and after pics. Also some minor rearranging once it was gone. Now to figure out what to do with it since I don’t have another tank it will fit in. For now it is just in a tub. (iPhone pics)

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

I finally had to do something about the sword in the front. It’s one of my favorite plants but it was just getting too large for the tank. Before and after pics. Also some minor rearranging once it was gone. Now to figure out what to do with it since I don’t have another tank it will fit in. For now it is just in a tub. (iPhone pics)

View attachment 10010View attachment 10011

So beautiful! What's the tall curtain grass plant on the left side foreground? TY in advance!

 

[JuJuFish]

Thanks @Naturescapes_Rocco. That’s Cyperus helferi. I divided it not too long ago and just kept this thinned down version.

 

[JuJuFish]

Not much to update but for those curious about the slow roll of a low tech tank, this is for you. 4 months since the last photo. I finally had to thin the Java Narrow K on the right. The aponogeton is still super slow but it is flowering. I added a few strands of dwarf hair grass just to see what it will do. I’m letting some stray leopard val grow before moving it to another tank. No algae. Just slowly bopping along. (And that’s a kale leaf attached to the front glass that the pearl gourami, otocinclus, and RCS will devour in a couple of days.)