Journal Attempting a True Dutch

[Kwyet]

Ahem - “Technically speaking this is one of the best entries this year, if not the best.”
I mean, Wow!

Yeah, I loved that! There’s a lot of other stuff to figure out though.

 

[Burr740]

Ahem - “Technically speaking this is one of the best entries this year, if not the best.”
I mean, Wow!

Yeah, I loved that! There’s a lot of other stuff to figure out though.

Thats not hyperbole, I meant the whole paragraph literally. To me its actually a better Dutch than it looks like, if that makes any sense lol. A few plant choices and a couple spots where the heights or size of the groups could be improved are what held it back. Bart and Vin expounded on some of this too

Especially impressive is it being your first attempt at a true Dutch. Youve clearly spent a lot of time and thought studying the finer points of the style and how to apply them. It definitely shows

 

[Kwyet]

Thats not hyperbole, I meant the whole paragraph literally. To me its actually a better Dutch than it looks like, if that makes any sense lol. A few plant choices and a couple spots where the heights or size of the groups could be improved are what held it back. Bart and Vin expounded on some of this too

Especially impressive is it being your first attempt at a true Dutch. Youve clearly spent a lot of time and thought studying the finer points of the style and how to apply them. It definitely shows

Thank you! That means a lot! Are the judges able to answer questions now that the contest is over, or is that still verboten? Toward the end of the week I’ll probably put some out for whoever wants to shed some insight.

 

[Burr740]

Personally I have no problem if somebody wants to ask me a few specific questions. Glad to help really. Its not against policy now that its over or anything like that. Just be up to the individual judge. Dont quote me on this but Id say Vin and Bart wouldnt mind it either

Heres a fun fact. During the process judges only see the main pic, not all of them. I remember reading thats how it was a few years back but had forgotten it

 

[Kwyet]

Personally I have no problem if somebody wants to ask me a few questions. Its not against policy now that its over or anything like that. Just be up to the individual judge. Dont quote me on this but Id say Vin and Bart wouldnt mind it either

Thanks!

 

[Burr740]

Thanks!

Read my edit, we typed at the same time

 

[Kwyet]

Read my edit, we typed at the same time

Oh, that’s interesting! I thought they saw all but the original main shot, because some of the past comments complained about no detail shots.

 

[Kwyet]

Okay, I expect this will be a little bit long, but I want to be able to look back see all my thoughts/notes/questions at the same time. I'm not sure it'll be as organized as I would like either, so please bear with me. I'm going to divide it by judge's comments. Anyone can answer, especially our resident judge.

Bart Laurens--

1. He noted that it's a relatively small Dutch scape. I had lowered the water level to make the space look longer instead of taller, but it still doesn't look the same ratio as most of the other tanks. I also went through and noticed most well-liked tanks are at least 4 feet long. I have a 4 foot long tank on the way that I was planning to use as a high-tech farm tank. Should I switch and make the new tank my contest tank and make this current tank my farm tank? If I do that I'll gain 11 inches in length, but I'll lose 2 1/4 inches in depth front-to-back (19.7 inches vs 22).

2. He felt the Pseudomugils would be stressed by the Melanotaenia praecox. They don't seem stressed to me, but I could switch out one or the other. Are there any top-dwelling fish that are sassy and wouldn't be stressed by the Dwarf Neons? It seems like most people use hatchetfish for their surface fish, but I don't even know if they would work. I hear they're great jumpers too. Or, would it be better to give up the Melanotaenia (to another tank) and just choose different mid-dwelling fish?

3. Notes--Taiwan lily needed more presence/visibility, bolbitis should be near surface, triflora needs space to spread out, Limnophila wilsonii needs less presence. Thank you for the tips if you ever happen to read this.

Vin Cutty--

No real questions, just some notes--make moss wall less obtrusive, don't put "messy" plants next to each other, give plants more time to grow out.
Getting ready a month early and make final decisions even earlier would help a lot, the mold remediation and bathroom rebuild and then only having a few weeks left to make final decisions, trim, and replant would have helped a lot I think. Hopefully it'll be a one-time thing! Likewise, thank you for the encouraging words and critique if you ever happen to read this.

Joe Harvey --

1. I loved that first sentence! The street doesn't actually go all the way back, although I wanted it to. I had trouble keeping the shaded part of the street growing. Replanting the taller stems in back didn't help either, What to do? Just keep the back bushes with exaggerated spacing until near picture time? What do other people do?

2. "The picture doesn't do it any favors..." spoken about the bolbitis, but I think it applied to the photo in general? I noticed my photo looked a lot brighter than many others, almost overexposed, where many others were dark enough to be called moody. Is that the problem, or is it something else? I adjusted highlights, shadows and contrast, and maybe I went overboard?

3. Notes--Purple Knight not big enough for this tank to be a focal point, don't let bolbitis blend with moss (need more contrast), a little too much negative space in front (more blyxa)

4. About the Microsorum Narrow K--I actually didn't have the rhizomes buried. I stretched the plants way out so that the metal clips with the rhizomes were in the back of the tank, laying on the substrate, and the frilly tops were in the front held by plastic clips made from a black hair comb. Well, the plastic came loose that morning and I arranged it again, pushing the plastic clips further in, and then took pictures. It was only after I had cleaned everything up and gone upstairs to select photos that I realized it had become more of a 1/2 street than the bush I had wanted. I was going to fix it at the end of the week and try again, but the plant didn't like that treatment and had turned brown on the frilly edges,. I tried some other things, but nothing looked as good as this first picture, so I just went with it. I think maybe they wouldn't have turned brown if I hadn't pushed the clips further in to the sand, because it was doing well before all that. Anyway, that's the sad story, lol!

5. Thank you @Burr740 very much for the very kind words and detailed critique!

Other notes/questions:

1. Black sand is okay, but lighter sand/gravel seems to be preferred. Should I switch? This would be the time to do it, if it's worth it.

2. I've seen several comments through the years, that the plants look too healthy (not mine, lol) or too EI. Can someone explain that, because I just don't see what they're talking about.

3. In case anyone noticed and wondered, it says my CO2 is at 65 ppm, That is a mistake on my part. It should have said 50. I just was unable to get it fixed. I had included that in my emails to support when I asked whether my original photo uploaded okay, but there was never a reply and then suddenly the results were posted. I guess it was all fine though.

4. Lastly, thank you all sooo much for your help this last year! It would not have turned out this well, without the generosity of the members here. Also, thank you @Unexpected for the kind words on your YouTube channel!

Well, this year was about creating a true Dutch tank and gaining knowledge and experience, so I'm very happy with how it all turned out and feel like I accomplished my goals. Now hopefully , onward and upward. .

Thanks for reading!

 

[Kwyet]

One more question…is there a way to get a scoresheet of some kind that shows the weight and combined score by category?

 

[gjcarew]

I'm none of these people, but I'm willing to take a stab at these questions.

Okay, I expect this will be a little bit long, but I want to be able to look back see all my thoughts/notes/questions at the same time. I'm not sure it'll be as organized as I would like either, so please bear with me. I'm going to divide it by judge's comments. Anyone can answer, especially our resident judge.

Bart Laurens--

1. He noted that it's a relatively small Dutch scape. I had lowered the water level to make the space look longer instead of taller, but it still doesn't look the same ratio as most of the other tanks. I also went through and noticed most well-liked tanks are at least 4 feet long. I have a 4 foot long tank on the way that I was planning to use as a high-tech farm tank. Should I switch and make the new tank my contest tank and make this current tank my farm tank? If I do that I'll gain 11 inches in length, but I'll lose 2 1/4 inches in depth front-to-back (19.7 inches vs 22).

Aquascaping tends to be easier in a "landscape" aspect ratio. You're allowed for grow more plants, and therefore get more leeway, if you have a longer tank. Bart's tank is 10' long, its no surprise he likes the longer tanks.

The biggest thing when you lose actual depth is to create the illusion of depth with lots of layering of groups. I did pretty well one year with a 36x11x11 tank. It just takes practice to understand how to best grow plants in the size of tank you have.

2. He felt the Pseudomugils would be stressed by the Melanotaenia praecox. They don't seem stressed to me, but I could switch out one or the other. Are there any top-dwelling fish that are sassy and wouldn't be stressed by the Dwarf Neons? It seems like most people use hatchetfish for their surface fish, but I don't even know if they would work. I hear they're great jumpers too. Or, would it be better to give up the Melanotaenia (to another tank) and just choose different mid-dwelling fish?

You do you, but I'm never gonna buy or get rid of a fish because of an aquascaping contest. I'll allow the judges to assess my plants, but the fish are my pets and I will not be adjusting my stocking for "aesthetics."

3. Notes--Taiwan lily needed more presence/visibility, bolbitis should be near surface, triflora needs space to spread out, Limnophila wilsonii needs less presence. Thank you for the tips if you ever happen to read this.

Vin Cutty--

No real questions, just some notes--make moss wall less obtrusive, don't put "messy" plants next to each other, give plants more time to grow out.
Getting ready a month early and make final decisions even earlier would help a lot, the mold remediation and bathroom rebuild and then only having a few weeks left to make final decisions, trim, and replant would have helped a lot I think. Hopefully it'll be a one-time thing! Likewise, thank you for the encouraging words and critique if you ever happen to read this.

Joe Harvey --

1. I loved that first sentence! The street doesn't actually go all the way back, although I wanted it to. I had trouble keeping the shaded part of the street growing. Replanting the taller stems in back didn't help either, What to do? Just keep the back bushes with exaggerated spacing until near picture time? What do other people do?

Just keep the front of the street shorter? So start from the back, trim the next plant a little lower, the next forward plant a little lower, etc. It takes a lot of trimming, but street plants do well with a lot of trimming.

2. "The picture doesn't do it any favors..." spoken about the bolbitis, but I think it applied to the photo in general? I noticed my photo looked a lot brighter than many others, almost overexposed, where many others were dark enough to be called moody. Is that the problem, or is it something else? I adjusted highlights, shadows and contrast, and maybe I went overboard?

It seemed a bit overexposed. I think part of what made it seem bright was the lack of shadows under your plant groups. Checkout this scape that won in 2019. Notice how there is a line of shadow delineating each group. They fo that by providing a LOT of room between groups, and a really stark height contrast.

3. Notes--Purple Knight not big enough for this tank to be a focal point, don't let bolbitis blend with moss (need more contrast), a little too much negative space in front (more blyxa)

4. About the Microsorum Narrow K--I actually didn't have the rhizomes buried. I stretched the plants way out so that the metal clips with the rhizomes were in the back of the tank, laying on the substrate, and the frilly tops were in the front held by plastic clips made from a black hair comb. Well, the plastic came loose that morning and I arranged it again, pushing the plastic clips further in, and then took pictures. It was only after I had cleaned everything up and gone upstairs to select photos that I realized it had become more of a 1/2 street than the bush I had wanted. I was going to fix it at the end of the week and try again, but the plant didn't like that treatment and had turned brown on the frilly edges,. I tried some other things, but nothing looked as good as this first picture, so I just went with it. I think maybe they wouldn't have turned brown if I hadn't pushed the clips further in to the sand, because it was doing well before all that. Anyway, that's the sad story, lol!

5. Thank you @Burr740 very much for the very kind words and detailed critique!

Other notes/questions:

1. Black sand is okay, but lighter sand/gravel seems to be preferred. Should I switch? This would be the time to do it, if it's worth it.

I don't like the light sand because it ends up looking distractingly red/purple under modern LED's

2. I've seen several comments through the years, that the plants look too healthy (not mine, lol) or too EI. Can someone explain that, because I just don't see what they're talking about.

I think Vin learned the Dutch style from 1990's - 2000's NBAT and has not really updated his "ideal" look. There is a noticeable difference between a tank grown with leaner ferts, lower CO2, and lower light. The plants stretch a bit more, don't look as intensely colored, and tend to have a bit of a languid look about them. It's tough to describe, but look at Tim Gross's tank for an example.

3. In case anyone noticed and wondered, it says my CO2 is at 65 ppm, That is a mistake on my part. It should have said 50. I just was unable to get it fixed. I had included that in my emails to support when I asked whether my original photo uploaded okay, but there was never a reply and then suddenly the results were posted. I guess it was all fine though.

I was wondering about that CO2 level! I think the technical details really aren't that important as long as you can grow plants well, which you're clearly an expert at.

4. Lastly, thank you all sooo much for your help this last year! It would not have turned out this well, without the generosity of the members here. Also, thank you @Unexpected for the kind words on your YouTube channel!

Well, this year was about creating a true Dutch tank and gaining knowledge and experience, so I'm very happy with how it all turned out and feel like I accomplished my goals. Now hopefully , onward and upward. .

Thanks for reading!

 

[Kwyet]

Thanks for the detailed reply @gjcarew ! That’s very helpful! I think I am going to make the coming 4 foot tank my contest tank, if it would just hurry up and come. The wait is killing me, lol!

I’m not planning to actually get rid of any fish, but since I’m getting the new tank I’ll have a lot of opportunity to reconsider stocking. After thinking about it, I’ll probably just keep all of these fish in the tank that they are used to (they really do get along just fine) and have the fun of getting all new fish for the new tank. I’m thinking about some White Diamond Tetras and Peppered Cory cats, and maybe some Pseudomugil luminatus or Gold Ring Danios. How do those sound? Of course it also depends on if I can find them when I’m ready.

I don’t want white sand, but I do really like the Sunset Gold that I put in my 125 gallon. Do you think it would look too purple? My lights aren’t kept super high, just 60-ish par.

Thanks for the very kind words! I’m certainly nowhere near being an expert, but I do think I’ve learned a lot from this forum in the last year. There’s a long way to go though!

 

[gjcarew]

I have the CaribSea Peace River gravel for the main substrate in my tank. I think it looks too red, despite not looking very red out of the bag. Probably because my RGB lights just really highlight any red colors in the tank (granted this is a "sunset" photo so there is extra blurple in the spectrum).



I end up topping it with Lapis Lustre sand for my contest photos, which I think is a pretty ideal color and texture for a light-colored sand if you can find it.

 

[Kwyet]

I have the CaribSea Peace River gravel for the main substrate in my tank. I think it looks too red, despite not looking very red out of the bag. Probably because my RGB lights just really highlight any red colors in the tank (granted this is a "sunset" photo so there is extra blurple in the spectrum).

View attachment 12447

I end up topping it with Lapis Lustre sand for my contest photos, which I think is a pretty ideal color and texture for a light-colored sand if you can find it.

I have Peace River in my Hillstream tank, and you’re right, it doesn’t look anything like that. I’ll check on the Lapis Lustre sand, and also try out some of my Sunset Gold under my Dutch tank light to see how it looks. Thanks!

 

[Koan]

Are there any top-dwelling fish that are sassy

Maybe Medaka rice fish?



I haven't kept them.

Otherwise just about anything with barb or danio in the name is going to be sassy