Journal Attempting a True Dutch

[Kwyet]

Uggggg...is it really fun? Newbie here just wants a couple of small tanks with some live plants. Reading about mishaps like this makes me want to go with plastic plants for simplicity. Been researching for awhile and this website is on a whole nother level of complex.

It’s fun when you get it fixed without having to tear the whole tank down.

I think low-tech is a lot easier, and a lot less work. Everything happens slower, so it’s easier to deal with. On the other hand, I see lots of people that swear high tech/CO2 is the easiest, so I guess it’s partly just what you’re used to. I spend more time on this tank than on all the other 8 (soon to be 9) put together, but that’s because I like puzzles, I like a challenge, and trying to go Dutch really fits that bill.

The good thing is that there are plenty of knowledgeable people here that are willing to help!

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

I didn’t take a picture because I was embarrassed about it, but now I think I might as well have. It’s just a learning experience.

You should have, its just part of the learning experience. I think it inspires others to make mistakes and not shy away from them, because you see others do it and see that it happens to the best of us.

Also, I think I’m failing Plant Shaping 101, but I’ll keep working on it.

I disagree I see improvement from your last picture especially in the hydrocotyle. One thing to keep in mind is you started this in September, you will get better at it with time. One thing that one of the guys said after my presentation on my tank was that how far I had come in trimming and that you could see that throughout the pictures. You will get better but give yourself some credit, we are our own harshest critics.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

I didn’t take a picture because I was embarrassed about it, but now I think I might as well have. It’s just a learning experience.

Exactly. And truthfully, isn’t it a relief when you can salvage what appears unsalvageable? I think it’s even more important to show the ugly because it’s even more encouraging when you post pictures like your post maintenance shots.

 

[Kwyet]

I’ll do that next time, although hopefully it’ll at least be a different problem.

 

[Koan]

Reading about mishaps like this makes me want to go with plastic plants for simplicity. Been researching for awhile and this website is on a whole nother level of complex

Do yourself a favor don't try to drink from the fire hose. Really just take the high level pointers from Dennis, set yourself up to win with the basics, especially the easiest possible consistent cleaning routine that you'll stay with, and take your first stab at it.

Go ahead make mistakes and have fun with it. Great thing about plants is, they grow back! This isn't reefing, everything's either fixable, or reasonably priced to replace

And everyone here is up for answering questions as you go

 

[Art]

Uggggg...is it really fun? Newbie here just wants a couple of small tanks with some live plants. Reading about mishaps like this makes me want to go with plastic plants for simplicity. Been researching for awhile and this website is on a whole nother level of complex.

It can be very rewarding and, usually, fun. You are learning to grow living plants and everything in your aquarium will be better off for it, including yourself.

Like others have said, just take things one step at a time and start with basics. You haven’t found a site full of complex rules. You’ve found an online family that will take your learning journey with you and will support, teach and empathize with you along the way.

Start a journal and before you know it, you will feel the pride of what you created and how far you’ve come.

 

[Art]

I ended up with pea soup so thick I couldn’t even see the plants in the back. The lily completely melted away. I also had some blue-green algae on the substrate. I didn’t take a picture because I was embarrassed about it, but now I think I might as well have. It’s just a learning experience.

I absolutely love this! Of course, not the pea soup (we’ve all been there) but your attitude and wisdom. The best lessons are learned from thinking about your mistakes.

Like you said, we should all share your mistakes. This is when a number of mistakes (and life) impacted my tank. I’ve been keeping plants since the 1990s! This happens but I’ve learned that almost anything can be turned around. A reset is not starting from zero but re-starting with a much stronger foundation.

 

[Kwyet]

I absolutely love this! Of course, not the pea soup (we’ve all been there) but your attitude and wisdom. The best lessons are learned from thinking about your mistakes.

Like you said, we should all share your mistakes. This is when a number of mistakes (and life) impacted my tank. I’ve been keeping plants since the 1990s! This happens but I’ve learned that almost anything can be turned around. A reset is not starting from zero but re-starting with a much stronger foundation.

Thanks! I really appreciate it. Although you had to do a reset, I have to say that flowering Ludwigia was pretty cool!

 

[Frank Vugts]

It’s fun when you get it fixed without having to tear the whole tank down.

I think low-tech is a lot easier, and a lot less work. Everything happens slower, so it’s easier to deal with. On the other hand, I see lots of people that swear high tech/CO2 is the easiest, so I guess it’s partly just what you’re used to. I spend more time on this tank than on all the other 8 (soon to be 9) put together, but that’s because I like puzzles, I like a challenge, and trying to go Dutch really fits that bill.

The good thing is that there are plenty of knowledgeable people here that are willing to help!

Low-tech is not easier. Especially if no CO2 is considered low-tech. CO2 is a nutrient plants cannot do without. The CO2 that is in the water naturally can sustain limited plant life and even then the plants that are kept under such conditions show signs of sub-ideal development. So if you want good results High-tech is easier, but you do not have to push it to the limit. In case you put the pedal to the metal in terms of growth speed it is a lot of work. But the temperature, height of the tank and the amount of light largely control the pace. It you do not exaggerate those parameters you can keep a high-tech tank relatively easy, unless you take away nutrients. If you take away nutrients in a full high-tech you better get ready for trouble.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Low-tech is not easier.

Well not having to monitor CO2 is certainly easier, but yes that being the limiting factor can make things difficult. However there are plenty of successful examples of tanks grown without CO2 supplementation, some of which have been exemplified on this forum. However I think a blanket statement of one being “easier” than the other really depends on what aspect of the method is “easier” as there are pros and cons to each method.

 

[Kwyet]

I suppose I should have said high energy versus low energy. Sure, a tank with a little CO2 supplementation and low to medium light is pretty much just as easy as the same without any additional CO2. However, a high energy tank is another beast entirely. This is the first tank that I ever had BBA , Cyanobacteria, or pea soup, and I don’t even have the light at full strength. I’ve seen lots of journals with similar experiences from other people going from low energy to high energy, so I know mine is not an isolated occurrence. I really think trying to balance a high energy tank is a learning curve, because anything that goes wrong proceeds quickly. I didn’t mean to start a debate though, lol!

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

I suppose I should have said high energy versus low energy. Sure, a tank with a little CO2 supplementation and low to medium light is pretty much just as easy as the same without any additional CO2. However, a high energy tank is another beast entirely. This is the first tank that I ever had BBA , Cyanobacteria, or pea soup, and I don’t even have the light at full strength. I’ve seen lots of journals with similar experiences from other people going from low energy to high energy, so I know mine is not an isolated occurrence. I really think trying to balance a high energy tank is a learning curve, because anything that goes wrong proceeds quickly. I didn’t mean to start a debate though, lol!

It also depends on your goals, All.. my tanks have plants in them but not all are planted tanks, if you catch my drift. There are plenty of species of plants that do just fine without co2 inject, super soft water, additional nutrients, and bright light. Do they show the best shape, color or perfect leave without these? Of course not but they still grow. I also will say I do not have an abundance of algae in them. The most I get is diatoms from time to time because I am using cheap cheap led lights to light them. Some plants do not survive as I have been trying more and more since I have so many cuttings and my water is extremely hard out of the tap like 500tds 8.0pH high general hardness and carbonate hardness, so high I do not even bother to test anymore.

My 75gal that is right next to my main high tech tank has a bunch of anubias, some crypts, hygrophila corymbosa and difformis, limnophila aquatica and lobelia cardinalis in it and guess what those stems are doing just fine. But some are not nearly as compact internodes as others. The limnophila aquatica actually looks extremely good in this tank. It probably has middle light intensity and guess what no algae and I do not trim, nor remove decaying plant mater in this tank. Again it comes down to what your goals are in the hobby. I know I will never judge someone who has not spent money on top of the line equipment because they cannot afford it or they just do not want to have the maintenance that comes with a high energy tank. You can have a nice looking tank without going the high energy route but you may be limited some on your plant selection.

Sorry for the bit of a rant just something I wanted to say.

 

[Kwyet]

Yes, you do generally have to adjust your expectations and plant choices, although @sudiorca seems to have found a method that works even with difficult plants. I haven’t tried it, but his photos are stunning.

 

[2hotinphx]

Do yourself a favor don't try to drink from the fire hose. Really just take the high level pointers from Dennis, set yourself up to win with the basics, especially the easiest possible consistent cleaning routine that you'll stay with, and take your first stab at it.

Go ahead make mistakes and have fun with it. Great thing about plants is, they grow back! This isn't reefing, everything's either fixable, or reasonably priced to replace

And everyone here is up for answering questions as you go

Hey thanks everyone for the encouragement. I am checking out the 2HR link now. Sorry for the thread drift....

 

[Kwyet]

Hey thanks everyone for the encouragement. I am checking out the 2HR link now. Sorry for the thread drift....

No problem! All the activity is kind of fun.

 

[Kwyet]

1/1/2025: The good, the bad, and the ugly

High-tech

68 gallon, Honey gourami, Ember tetras, Pygmy Cory cats, Red neon blue eye rainbowfish, Oto’s


Low-tech

14 gallon backwater, neons


20 gallon hillstream loaches and CPD’s


20 gallon farm tank/quarantine, long-fin White Clouds


10 gallon farm/quarantine, Leopard Danio


125 gallon Pictus, Angelfish, Rainbow shark, Denison barbs, Cory cats, Bristlenose Plecos


28 gallon, male Endler’s


8 gallon, Red Neon Blue Eye Rainbowfish


7 gallons, about 6 weeks old, thinking of starting over


60 gallon, New hillstream project, very much in process


Complete fish room





We’ll see how much changes in a year!

 

[Kwyet]

These are the plants I’m considering for the 60 gallon hillstream tank. Any thoughts? The emersed ones need to be dog-safe, just to be cautious. One of my dogs thinks she’s a goat and will try pretty much anything.

Terrestrial/Emersed:

Money tree, Pachira aquatica
Maidenhair Fern, Adiantum
Dwarf Umbrella Palm, Cyperus alternifolius
‘gracilis’
Purple Waffle, Hemigraphis
Spider plant, Chlorophytum comosum
Nerve plant, Fittonia
Parlor Palm, Chamaedorea elegans
Dwarf red-stemmed parrot feather,
Myriophyllum brasiliensis

Aquatic:

Crypts balansae, lucens, willisi, Mi Oya, retrospiralis
Bolbitis
Madagascar lace
Buces

 

[Koan]

The good, the bad, and the ugly

Now that's some MTS.

Respect!

 

[Kwyet]

I guess it’s about time for an update.

This is what it looks like today after maintenance:



I’m trying out a slightly different arrangement. I moved the rock to the left side behind the tripartita, slid the crypt a little further back, extended the Penthorum to the right, pulled out half of the triflora because it was taking over, trimmed the Limnophila, and added Heteranthera Zosterifolia on the right side in back. I only had 2 stems of Zosterifolia that survived acclimating to my low-tech farm tank, so I put 1 in here and left 1 there in case this melts. It’s supposed to be a fast grower I think, so hopefully it’ll fill in soon.

Last week I had to remove the rock and pull the netting and all the mini Pellia off because it was infested with Staghorn. I pulled all the Staghorn off by hand and then glued the moss back on. I also sprayed the rock with hydrogen peroxide and let it sit for awhile before replacing the moss, then gave the moss a fine spritz of the peroxide from a distance before putting it all back in the tank. I had seen a little cloud of algae after returning it to the water, but I couldn’t find it today. Hopefully it died! There was still a cloud of dust/debris that came out of the rock/moss when I used the turkey baster on it today. Maybe that needs to be an every day thing.

There’s also 2 little wispy blades of Erio Featherduster that came back from the roots when I had pretty much given up hope (yay!). It’s also in the back right corner out of sight. If it actually grows then I’ll figure out how to use it. And, I’ve got the beginnings of a moss wall using Pilo Moss (thanks! @Mr.Shenanagins ). It’s starting to spread out.

After the help I got on the Kochi, I increased my macros by another 4 ml/week. I added 1/2 the week’s dose today after a 50% water change. I may lower the percent water change, but I wanted to see how this would work first. I tested nitrates after the water change and at light’s out, and both times the API liquid test showed 5 ppm. I’m sure that’s too low, so next week I’ll raise macros some more. I just want to take a gradual approach so I don’t end up with impenetrable pea soup again.

I also (re)set up this little 7 gallon tank last night. I’ll add a little DIY CO2 starting tomorrow. When I can get around to it, I want to try out @Yugang ‘s CO2 spray bar on a low setting. Anyway, it has some of the Sreepadma Crypt Sindoor and Crypt Jwala in it, so it’ll be interesting to see how they do.


That’s it for now. Thanks for reading!