Help 90g, Dutch style, first try

[riioKen]

I found a video made by "Aqua Rocks Colorado", they do PAR test of my light (Week Aqua P900 Pro) on a Ada 90p, considering that my tank is a bit longer and around the same height due to substrate thickness, can be used as a good baseline.

Seems that on ada 90p this light reach 200par at substrate level all around with a peak 236par and 190 in the corners, they have raised the light 17-18cm

 

[Burr740]

i don't know where to find different micros in EU

I'll send you some micros for regular price plus whatever shipping to Italy costs. Probably take 2-3 weeks to arrive

If you want to make your own I have a DIY kit with all the individual compounds. Will make approximately 75, 500ML bottles worth (cloning my recipe which is fairly rich)
Includes everything except Fe - $89 usd

Also have pre-mixed packs with everything, including two kinds of Fe (DTPA & gluc). You just add the entire contents to a 500 ML dosing container and mix using distilled/RO water. Shake well and boom, perfect micros.

They start at $14 each and get a little cheaper the more you buy

Shoot me a PM if you want and we'll work something out

 

[HardeeParty]

Also have pre-mixed packs with everything, including two kinds of Fe (DTPA & gluc). You just add the entire contents to a 500 ML dosing container and mix using distilled/RO water. Shake well and boom, perfect micros.

Shoot me a PM if you want and we'll work something out

Pm sent

 

[BigWave]

I have a DIY kit

Damn, that container and jars are kinda weirdly sexy

 

[BigWave]

Tropica soil will alter gH, pH and kH. Well most if not all soil based substrates that contain humic acids / peat will.
Keep up the water changes, the more the better. Especially when freshly started.
Masterline Golden is good stuff. Can not go wrong with using it.

 

[FrankZ]

Damn, that container and jars are kinda weirdly sexy

It’s way better then my ziploc bags and plastic shoe bin I’ve been using for years. I might have to order a kit just for the containers and storage….

 

[FrankZ]

Today is the eve of the start of the adventure with 90g, i'm excited.

Just few infos about water chemistry of the 90g (which seems quite different from the 20g, both use same water).
Ph: 7.2/.3 (should be degassed because i never injected co2 in this tank and last water change is 1 week ago. The degassed water of the 20g is 8.2, tropica can buffer ph?)
Kh: 2 (50kg of fresh tropica soil, the lowest kh in the 20g is 3, now its 4)
gh: 4.5 (quite strange, tropica can buffer gh too?, in the 20g is 7.5, EDIT: i've used MgSo4 3 weeks ago, but i did plenty wc since then)

About fertilization, i would like to try your (@GreggZ) or maybe Masterline Golden dosing schedule, the problem is, i can easily clone macro, but micro i'm limited to this one, i don't know where to find different micros in EU


About the starting, the tank will have lots of TC plants and only the healthy top of plants from the 20g. I plan to have the light up for 4-5h at 50% and raise week after week photoperiod and intensity (not at the same time, the light is a Week Aqua P900 Pro)

@riioKen i am not sure if you are aware but TC plants can be very sensitive in fresh aqua soil. I’ve read from @Dennis Wong that it is best to wait until the tank and soil have matured a number of months before planting TC plants. I believe the high levels of ammonia from the aqua soil causes issues with the TC plants converting growth.

I’m not sure if the specific plants you are targeting will be an issue or not. I haven’t had much success at all with TC plants so I may not be the best one for advice. I just wanted to give you a bit of I formation going into your Dutch tank so you can have the best success without frustration.

 

[riioKen]

@riioKen i am not sure if you are aware but TC plants can be very sensitive in fresh aqua soil. I’ve read from @Dennis Wong that it is best to wait until the tank and soil have matured a number of months before planting TC plants. I believe the high levels of ammonia from the aqua soil causes issues with the TC plants converting growth.

Yeah i know, i did a dark start because of this. The tank is running without plants since mid september, considering that i had an already enstablished oase biomaster thermo 600, i used 1L of matrix in the new filter. The tank almost cycled in 1 week (0 ammonia and nitrite), i have almost 10L of matrix considering both filters (only 1 is on the 90g, the other is on my old 20g tank, that will be removed).

I just wanted to give you a bit of I formation going into your Dutch tank so you can have the best success without frustration.

I truly thank you, any tip will be ALWAYS appreciated

Tropica soil will alter gH, pH and kH. Well most if not all soil based substrates that contain humic acids / peat will.
Keep up the water changes, the more the better. Especially when freshly started.

Im following the "Dark start method", the tank is running with only soil and filter for about 1 month and half. I do weekly WC (i do it usually when i see too much bubbles at the surface, has been weeks without seeing it though)

Masterline Golden is good stuff. Can not go wrong with using it.

Well, im sure that APT3 is great too, but something is off with my water that it triggers GSA (rotalas struggle to keep its old leaves). Since I doubled the dosage, the GSA has disappeared from the tank and the plants are way more colorful without any sign of that "stripes".

Old post for reference

 

[riioKen]

The plan did not go as hoped, DHL decided to cancel the delivery of the plants, scheduled for this Friday, and instead carry it out on Monday.

This is a big problem for me, I had everything planned for this weekend, but instead I think I'll be forced to take a couple of days off from work to be able to prepare everything... (just for reference, the shipping "express 1-2 days" cost 24€, i ordered Wednesday...)

Anyway, nothing is lost, I still have spare days to take off at disposal from work before the end of the year so, nothing to worry about.

Considering the "new" soil, should i dose fertilization in the water column with all the TC and juvenile top stem that i'll be add to the tank? The plant mass should be on the lower side

 

[BigWave]

Plants even the TC Cups will be fine floating at the surface as long as there is water movement and light. In fact might help them transition better to your tank parameters. We do this often with difficult TC like Chai or Glosso platinum etc.
Dose acording to directions on the new setup. The theory of this is that the new growth needs every bit of nutrients to grow out the new submersed growth.

 

[BigWave]

I might have to order a kit just for the containers and storage….

same

 

[riioKen]

First day of planting... Tomorrow I'll complete the scape.

I still have left:
- rotala macrnadra
- rotala orange juice,
- rotala h'ra
- lancea araguaia
- limnophila hippuridoides
- Egeria densa
- rotala Wallichi
- AR
- hygrophila Rosanervig


Tomorrow I'll move plants from 20g, I'll only take healthy top, how to sanitize them? Bleach dip? Excel dip? H2o2 ?

 

[Burr740]

Dont dip them in any of that stuff. Why do you want to sanitize them? Just move em over

 

[riioKen]

Dont dip them in any of that stuff. Why do you want to sanitize them?

I would like to not transfer too much algae spores. I heard that 1pt of Bleach and 20pt of water is effective, then 10m in water with prime.

Do you think that it'll kills the plants?

A friend of mine gave me sessiflora, but he hadn't told me he had Cladophora problems, now I can clearly see fuzz of Cladophora on some plants, not on the healthy top though

 

[Art]

Hi @riioKen, what part of Italy are you in?

I too am not a fan of dipping plants unless there are clear signs of algae. Usually, good husbandry will deal with the algae in any case.

I have heard of 1 to 20 parts bleach to water as a dip. IMO that would work if you decide to do it. However, just keep an eye on the plant to see how it’s doing. Perhaps try it with a smaller handful first to see how they react?

 

[riioKen]

Perhaps try it with a smaller handful first to see how they react?

This was the idea. I never did it, 1 part of bleach and 20 of water, it means that if I use a glass for the bleach, I should add 20 glass of water right?

Hi @riioKen, what part of Italy are you in?

I'm from Naples, in the south of Italy.

I too am not a fan of dipping plants unless there are clear signs of algae. Usually, good husbandry will deal with the algae in any case.

Me neither, I have excel but probably I used it only 2-3 times but honestly, I felt that the algae increased after used it, idk why.

About husbandry, you're right, it always works even with me, the algae problem was greatly improved since I posted here, but I heard that Cladophora thrive in the same condition of the plants, and if you kill Cladophora "doing something" probably the plants are harmed too.

What do you think about plants positioning? It's for sure too early I know, TC can easily melt. I have finished planting few hours ago, ofc CO2 isn't yet added, it will be added tomorrow.

About light, I plan to start at 50% and 5h (30m ramp up and 30m dim)

I'm very excited...

 

[Art]

This was the idea. I never did it, 1 part of bleach and 20 of water, it means that if I use a glass for the bleach, I should add 20 glass of water right?

I'm from Naples, in the south of Italy.


Me neither, I have excel but probably I used it only 2-3 times but honestly, I felt that the algae increased after used it, idk why.

About husbandry, you're right, it always works even with me, the algae problem was greatly improved since I posted here, but I heard that Cladophora thrive in the same condition of the plants, and if you kill Cladophora "doing something" probably the plants are harmed too.

What do you think about plants positioning? It's for sure too early I know, TC can easily melt. I have finished planting few hours ago, ofc CO2 isn't yet added, it will be added tomorrow.

About light, I plan to start at 50% and 5h (30m ramp up and 30m dim)

I'm very excited...

Excellent! I’m glad you’re excited! Good things will surely happen. Just be patient.

Yes, a 20:1 ratio is 20 parts water to 1 part bleach. I would probably use ounces or whatever the metric equivalent to that is.

What you will find is that algae and plants have a lot in common. However, when plants are growing healthy, there will be very little algae visible. Something happens that healthy plants keep algae away. No one has been able to explain it to me with any sort of scientific explanation that has been tested. However, even though we don’t know exactly why, it has been proven for many years.

As for plant positioning, I am a big fan of keeping two inches between plant groupings and giving each stem room to grow in. As for TC, I’m not the best to answer that as I have an entire thread talking about how I tend to kill TC plants.

On your lighting, that is usually my starting point.

Lastly, I have ancestors from Northern Italy - Torino.

 

[riioKen]

Something happens that healthy plants keep algae away

Probably something like alleopathy.

As for TC, I’m not the best to answer that as I have an entire thread talking about how I tend to kill TC plants.

Yeah ahahaha, considering how inexperienced I'm, the only TC I ever killed was cryptocoryne Pink flamingo, which isn't that bad, I always used TC plants.

Lastly, I have ancestors from Northern Italy - Torino

Nice, it's great to know, I have relatives near Torino, but they went there for working, we are native of the south.

Yes, a 20:1 ratio is 20 parts water to 1 part bleach. I would probably use ounces or whatever the metric equivalent to that is

Ok, do you know if the roots shouldn't be exposed to bleach?

Perhaps try it with a smaller handful first to see how they react?

Usually the reaction is immediate? Or, I mean after few hours? As I said never used it

 

[Art]

You dip the entire plant. I would NOT leave it a few hours. I would leave it for only a minute or two. Bleach immediately works to kill anything organic.

Maybe we should start a thread on how to properly dip plants?

 

[riioKen]

I would NOT leave it a few hours

Probably I misspelled, few hours AFTER the dip. If the plants react bad, the effect appear after few hour?

I would leave it for only a minute or two

Yeah, a dip in the bleach for few hours probably it would dissolve the plant

Maybe we should start a thread on how to properly dip plants?

Probably isn't a bad idea if it's a thing that could enrich the community. Especially if it was tested to work (if someone tried it, like one-two punch)