Welcome to ScapeCrunch

We are ScapeCrunch, the place where planted aquarium hobbyists come to build relationships and support each other. When you're tired of doom scrolling, you've found your home here.

Stable nutrient dosing using hobbyist test kits

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dennis Wong
  • Start date Start date
  • Featured
  • Tagged users Tagged users None
Joined
May 21, 2023
Messages
337
Reaction score
1,396
Location
Singapore
This is an extension/excerpt from the longer nutrient stability article and why it matters :

I have added a portion and simple guide for folks that are using hobbyist test kits to dial in their levels:

To have stable nutrient levels, the goal is to have the same visual shade of color when using a nitrate test kit on your aquarium at any time of the week.

Nutrient_dosing_hobbyist_tools_1024x1024.png


To do this, you need to start by having a stable method of dosing nutrients daily. By testing to see whether nutrients build up or deplete across the week, you will know whether your daily dosing rate is higher or lower than your tank's uptake rate of nutrients.

To do this, take measurements using the test kit across the week. Take the pictures in a fixed location and store the pictures on your phone or computer to use as color comparisons for readings across the week. If your nitrate tests show lighter colors at the end of the week compared to the first day of the week, it shows that your dosing rate is lower than your aquarium's uptake rate. In aquariums where the difference in uptake and dosing rates is small, the difference may only be seen by comparing the colors on the first and last days of the week. In aquariums where the daily dosing rates differ significantly from the uptake rates of the aquarium, a color difference may be seen by mid week.

Nutrient_dosing_hobbyist_tools_high_uptake_1024x1024.png


A dropping nitrate test reading at the end of the week indicates that daily additions of nitrogen are less than what the aquarium uptake rate is. In such a scenario, you should increase your daily dosing slightly to maintain stable levels. For slight differences in color (less than 5ppm), you increase your dosage by just 0.5ppm Nitrate per day. For color differences larger than 10ppm, try increasing it by 1ppm Nitrate per day.

Nutrient_dosing_hobbyist_tools_accumulation_1024x1024.png


A rising nitrate test reading at the end of the week indicates that daily additions of nitrogen are more than what the aquarium uptake rate is. In such a scenario, you should decrease your daily dosing slightly to maintain stable levels. For slight differences in color (less than 5ppm), you decrease your dosage by just 0.5ppm Nitrate per day. For color differences larger than 10ppm, try decreasing it by 1ppm Nitrate per day.

EI_vs_zerobound_system_1024x1024.png


If you are using the EI dosing approach, water change day is used to reset nutrient levels. One way to hit your target saturation level on the spot without the use of test kits is to change 100% of your water and dose exactly the amount of ppm in nutrients you want. i.e. 100% water change, dose 15ppm NO3, boomz, guaranteed 15ppm of NO3 in the water column.

If you are doing say a 50% water change, and your water has 20ppm of nitrates before the water change, you would want to dose back 10ppm of nitrates back to keep nutrient levels stable at 20ppm. If your target level is 15ppm of nitrates instead, then after a 50% water change (removing 10ppm from 20ppm), you will need to dose back 5ppm of nitrates instead. Over the long run, the goal should be to keep levels the same before/after water changes.

If instead you are using the zero bound approach to nutrient dosing, then the goal is to just keep nitrates at 5ppm and below after water changes. If nutrients levels have spiked significantly during the week, say it is at 10ppm now, then just do a larger water change (80-100%).
 
I have found that on some test kits such as the API liquid test kit it can be hard to discriminate between certain color swatches. 10 and 20 ppm look annoyingly the same.

To overcome this I do a base test and a 50% dilution test. Ie, I mix a quarter cup of tank water with a quarter cuo if tap water and test this diluted sample. If the second test is exceedingly closer in color to the first I conclude the tank is sitting closer to 20 ppm. If however the second test looks a lot closer to 5 ppm swatch then I conclude the tank is sitting closer to 10 ppm nitrate.
 
Thank you @Dennis Wong ! Given the inaccuracy of most hobbyist test kits. Are there any brands other than Hanna that are okay-lah, to use Singapore parlance.
There are some China side test kits that test for a narrow range, i.e. 5-40ppm,. and they give easier color matching. I came across them a couple of years back so I don't remember their names, but if you check china online shops like taobao/aliexpress they are there I think.
 
If i can give advice for good and accurate test kit for nitrate and phosphate : Red Sea !

They are a reef brand but i tested those 2 for freshwater and they are easy to read and narrow range !


Like Rocco have already said, the salifert are very good too and cheap ( at least in Europe)

I myself use the Hanna checker No3 and Po4 and with them i know exactly what nitrate is consumed per day.

Unfortunatly for the phosphate, due to my aquasoil « eating » them more rapidly than lukyluke pull out is gun 😅 i can’t apply the principle that Dennis advice here for a stable level.
 
I have found that on some test kits such as the API liquid test kit it can be hard to discriminate between certain color swatches. 10 and 20 ppm look annoyingly the same.

To overcome this I do a base test and a 50% dilution test. Ie, I mix a quarter cup of tank water with a quarter cuo if tap water and test this diluted sample. If the second test is exceedingly closer in color to the first I conclude the tank is sitting closer to 20 ppm. If however the second test looks a lot closer to 5 ppm swatch then I conclude the tank is sitting closer to 10 ppm nitrate.

Very true. My eyes literally cannot see any difference between the 10 and 20 ppm colours on the API nitrate test colour chart. Doing a 50% dilution test is a clever option, and is certainly really very useful in some situations. You are clearly doing this ina n intelligent way.
I have gone the route of using the Salifert nitrate test as I find it reliable and my eyes can tell the difference between the colours much better. Maybe my eyes find different shades of pink easier to distinguish between than different shades of orange.

@ Dennis Wong ............. using nitrates as the parameter one is trying to keep stabilised during the week. Just as a guestimate, what do you think would be a reasonable range of weekly nitrate swing without the plants really noticing ? I think I'm reasonably successful at keeping mine as steady as possible with daily dosing but, even so, I know that as the tank evolves and changes, nitrate-appetite changes and I can have up to a 5ppm swing (mean daily average nitrate of around 10 ppm) during the week.
 
Very true. My eyes literally cannot see any difference between the 10 and 20 ppm colours on the API nitrate test colour chart. Doing a 50% dilution test is a clever option, and is certainly really very useful in some situations. You are clearly doing this ina n intelligent way.
I have gone the route of using the Salifert nitrate test as I find it reliable and my eyes can tell the difference between the colours much better. Maybe my eyes find different shades of pink easier to distinguish between than different shades of orange.

@ Dennis Wong ............. using nitrates as the parameter one is trying to keep stabilised during the week. Just as a guestimate, what do you think would be a reasonable range of weekly nitrate swing without the plants really noticing ? I think I'm reasonably successful at keeping mine as steady as possible with daily dosing but, even so, I know that as the tank evolves and changes, nitrate-appetite changes and I can have up to a 5ppm swing (mean daily average nitrate of around 10 ppm) during the week.
as a rough gauge I think a 10ppm will affect delicate plants. Hardy plants don't really care so much, so this information isn't very useful for java fern growers I think. A 10ppm shift at 30ppm saturation NO3 will also have less impact than a move from 10ppm to 20ppm. I haven't test much for the higher ranges i.e. 40ppm shift to 60ppm etc, so this applies mostly for the 0-20ppm range.

If a tank is in long term deep deficit at 0pmm residual NO3 - like year old ADA style nature setups run purely on ADA dosing, a spike of 5ppm can be impactful. New growth will be better but older growth will spawn algae due to the adaptation changes.
 
as a rough gauge I think a 10ppm will affect delicate plants. Hardy plants don't really care so much, so this information isn't very useful for java fern growers I think. A 10ppm shift at 30ppm saturation NO3 will also have less impact than a move from 10ppm to 20ppm. I haven't test much for the higher ranges i.e. 40ppm shift to 60ppm etc, so this applies mostly for the 0-20ppm range.

If a tank is in long term deep deficit at 0pmm residual NO3 - like year old ADA style nature setups run purely on ADA dosing, a spike of 5ppm can be impactful. New growth will be better but older growth will spawn algae due to the adaptation changes.

thanks Dennis. Its all great info.
 
I would like to add some complexity to this discussion. This is the approach I usually take, particularly with nitrate dosing, but my current main tank has behaved differently to usual.
I test using a Hanna colorimeter, same time every day, or every second day and log them to look for meaningful rise/fall trends. I then adjust the dosing amounts from my dosing pump based on these trends.
While setting the dosing levels on my current 130 litre tank, I have had a bizarre loop while trying to maintain nitrate levels in the 8-10ppm range. I would get an upward trend (about 3ppm rise over a week, with some spikes and dips between WCs) while dosing quite lean. I would drop the amount I dosed daily to accommodate this rise in nitrate levels. Every time I did this I would get a short plateu for a week, then the rise would happen again. As my dosing got leaner and leaner, I was seeing the same cycle. The result has been an increase in algae on older leaves and degradation of older growth.
My working theory is that the plants were getting so much of what they needed from fresh aquasoil, that they didn’t take a lot from the water column. As I reduced my dosing to match my testing, they adapted to take even less from the water and more from the soil. This change meant the older leaves were being discarded to make way for the newly adapted growth. This was a downward spiral until I was dosing crazy lean amounts (3ppm per week in a heavily planted tank!).
I am now front loading to 10ppm and dosing more, to allow for a rise and planning to maintain higher nitrate levels to see if things steady out a bit.

Not the usual behaviour from any tank I’ve had over the years, but as we know every tank seems to have its quirks!
 
Interesting comparison


Hi Macek,

I think his salifert test kit is off as i have used them extensivly against known concentrated solutions ( 2, 10 and 20 ppm) and recently tested it against the hanna no3 checker and the result are always spot on !

Salifert is a well reputed brand for the test kit in the reefer community here in europe .
 
Hi Macek,

I think his salifert test kit is off as i have used them extensivly against known concentrated solutions ( 2, 10 and 20 ppm) and recently tested it against the hanna no3 checker and the result are always spot on !

Salifert is a well reputed brand for the test kit in the reefer community here in europe .
Hi Mitelog
You should be aware that NO3 tests are problematic due to interference from other anions. You can read about this on UKAPS; Darrel has mentioned it multiple times in several threads, as has Tom Barr, for example, here:


and



Ten years ago, I bought a Hanna N-NO3 test and a year later a Multi Parameter. After many experiments and discussions with a Hanna representative, unfortunately, they are not free from the problems mentioned above.
The only method for NO3 is ion chromatography (IC) and, for verification, UV/Vis spectrophotometry. This is the device shown in the video,
as the company that provides ICP testing writes in the question I asked here:


Regarding the explanations regarding the video and the Salifert test, you're right that every batch of tests can be problematic, as you can learn more about in the next video explaining the issues.

 
Hi Mitelog
You should be aware that NO3 tests are problematic due to interference from other anions. You can read about this on UKAPS; Darrel has mentioned it multiple times in several threads, as has Tom Barr, for example, here:


and



Ten years ago, I bought a Hanna N-NO3 test and a year later a Multi Parameter. After many experiments and discussions with a Hanna representative, unfortunately, they are not free from the problems mentioned above.
The only method for NO3 is ion chromatography (IC) and, for verification, UV/Vis spectrophotometry. This is the device shown in the video,
as the company that provides ICP testing writes in the question I asked here:


Regarding the explanations regarding the video and the Salifert test, you're right that every batch of tests can be problematic, as you can learn more about in the next video explaining the issues.


If the other ions are consistent, are the tests still accurate on a relative basis ?
 
Back
Top