Question of the Day Why has reefing exploded in popularity but planted aquariums are lagging behind?

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If you look around in the US, reefing, as a hobby, has exploded over the years. Freshwater planted aquariums have grown, don't get me wrong. However, they are a far cry from the size of the reef hobby.

It's curious because freshwater tanks are the majority in the US. However, live plants in freshwater tanks is only but a small fraction.

Why do you think that is? Anything we can do to start changing the ratio?
 
I think a major problem is supply and demand. I know of only one major nursery in Florida that supply’s aquatic plants for most of the country, but I think their supply is limited because they also sell pond plants and someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that’s their priority. Some of the largest aquatic plant distributors are in Europe, making availability to products and plants way more economical and easier to come by. I know there is a Tropica facility in Canada, and the only vendor I’ve used in the US that sells Tropica plants, is GLA. Not to mention, those products are also their most expensive plants since they come from across the border. I think until a major manufacturer comes to the US with their products and plants, it will be a very long time before the freshwater side can catch up to the reefers.

All my opinion of course 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
I think a lot of it has to do with conventions, as well. A good friend of mine has a HUGE reef (800'ish gallons), and he has saltwater tank shows that he goes to at least once a month to buy / sell / trade frags. Nothing like that exists for the planted tank world AFAIK.
 
I think a lot of it has to do with conventions, as well. A good friend of mine has a HUGE reef (800'ish gallons), and he has saltwater tank shows that he goes to at least once a month to buy / sell / trade frags. Nothing like that exists for the planted tank world AFAIK.
I think I would have to agree with you on the convention note. Cichlids in my area seem to be very popular along with Discus and Bettas. Around 4 times per year my friend Alex does a fish swap QC Fish Swap. The previous swap drew over 3,000 people and he is having another this month.
I attended the AGA convention in Chicago last year. Great event but I am pretty sure there was not 3,000 people attending the event.
I can only assume the saltwater side of things is even bigger. As @Art stated "a far cry from the size of the reef hobby". I strongly suspect, at least in this country, the freshwater planted aquarium will never be as popular as the saltwater hobby.
 
So for me this is still about culture. If it's Fish vs Plants, in the US the fish will win. If saltwater was easier to do and less expensive it would dominate because of the fish color. Freshwater is the easiest entry point to having fish in the house.
With that being said, most have fish and maybe a few plants thrown in, but the plants aren't the attraction. So a scape or a collection of plants grown in a tasteful way does not garner the excitement as fish do for most.

I've often likened this to Amercian football and soccer. Most don't appreciate soccer here because of the low scoring. They don't enjoy the "beauty of the game" (scape) and how it's played, but give them a long touchdown pass (big colorful fish) and the beer is all over the place. :ROFLMAO:

So yeah if a niche is going to breakthrough, I would count on reefing more than planting.
 
Low-tech planted tanks are technically accessible to almost anyone, but exposure to even easy plants like anubias and crypts is pretty limited. My LFS has 60-80 different fish, but only a handful of sick, ugly, algae-infested plants. A store a couple of hours away has a much better selection and one o two CO2 display tanks, but their best tank is still visually nothing next to their 1000g densely populated reef tank.

I doubt 1 in 100 "fish people" have ever laid eyes on a really nice freshwater aquascape. Everyone knows what a nice reef setup looks like. They're in restaurants, airports, malls, etc.

The "Highest-tech" freshwater tanks are pretty temperamental. Many people give up after a couple of algae wars go bad.
 
In my opinion a large part of the problem is the resistance to CO2. What I am seeing over and over is that new hobbyists try plants but don't want to spend the money to get a proper CO2 system. They try plants without CO2, fail, and give up on plants.

On one side of the coin, we have a lot of people doing low tech and recommending plants that can "tolerate" environments without CO2 injection, to get more people into it as training wheels. But the issue is that they go too hard in that direction and we get people thinking they can keep all sorts of plants hanging onto dear life, so beginners have this false belief and false hope.

People are going into this thinking CO2 equipment as an optional, rather than essential part of the system like a light, filter, or even tank stand. Tank stands often cost just as much if not more than the tank itself, the same people willing to spend several hundred dollars on a stand will not spend 120$ for a CO2 regulator.

On the other side of the coin, we have gatekeepers that make planted tanks seem way harder than it actually is, so beginners are intimidated by planted tanks (and now it seems that "aquascaping" is lumped in as an interchangeable term). My perception is that these "gatekeepers" are making it seem this way as a way to make themselves look more impressive.
 
...People are going into this thinking CO2 equipment as an optional, rather than essential part of the system like a light, filter, or even tank stand. Tank stands often cost just as much if not more than the tank itself, the same people willing to spend several hundred dollars on a stand will not spend $120 for a CO2 regulator.

Yep, I've stated that same thing. When you start without co2, your starting with 1 or 2 strikes against you, because I believe all plants are somewhat co2 deprived without injecting it, even if they "grow". Success rate just increases dramatically with it. But I do understand the argument against starting with it.

It would take a ton of education and reassurance for people to view it as essential, similar to how they think of a light or filter.
 
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Over the past few years I have got to know and help quite a few reefers who changed over to freshwater planted. They usually enter the hobby thinking it will be much easier. And it could be. But that depends on your ambitions.

If they want to stay low tech and stick with lower level light that is one thing. But most of them want to create something just as colorful as their reefs and create a beautiful underwater garden. That is another thing.

I tell them a high tech high light tank full of stems is also complicated. Just in a different way. And it's not a casual undertaking. It takes some commitment and dedication to get it right.

And I agree with the comments about CO2. Once you add you add it you bring up the level of knowledge you need to have. Many don't want to get that involved.

And let's face it, when you add everything up a high tech planted is beyond what many are willing to spend on an aquarium. Go visit one of the "beginner" planted tank groups and you will see the resistance to investing in a tank.

As to how to increase the number of people in the hobby, I don't have an answer. Personally I have been trying to promote the hobby as much as I can for a good number of years. And sites like this can really help people and also create a sense of community. If anyone has any ideas I am all ears and willing to do my part to help.
 
If it's Fish vs Plants, in the US the fish will win

I think it is mainly this ^^^

The average aquarium hobbyist (at least in the US) has an under-maintained tank with a few fish and some plastic plants where the fish are lucky to even survive. While sad, this is the reality of the hobby for the vast majority of aquarium owners.

The average user's entry into live plants is to buy some overpriced, sick and dying plants from petco and have it die on them in a few weeks. Then they give up. The learning curve to properly keep plants is simply too great for the average user. They go online and see these detailed guides, all kinds of new hardware they need to buy, etc and just think: "nah". Then those who want to put time/$$ into aquarium hobby just go reef because the fish are prettier.

I also don't think the average hobbyist has experienced a well maintained planted tank at all. The vast majority of people who see my tank for the first time have never seen anything like it vs literally everyone has seen an amazing reef tank at their local aquarium.
 
...The vast majority of people who see my tank for the first time have never seen anything like it vs literally everyone has seen an amazing reef tank at their local aquarium.
Very much agree with all you said.

This is very interesting and starting to take on a deeper meaning. Many of us here have joked in several threads that when people see our tanks, they ask "that's Saltwater right" and it makes a lot of sense. They just haven't seen a well executed planted tank like you stated. They simply don't know what it is, so the first reaction is saltwater since they have been more exposed to that.
 
recommending plants that can "tolerate" environments without CO2 injection, to get more people into it as training wheels
*cough* Aquarium Co-Op *cough* *cough*

Just echoing what JPog said here:
In some cases The bar has been set very low. Some hobbyists will see a few struggling plants with any amount of green, and conclude wow "a beautiful planted tank!" meanwhile many of us are cringing, zooming in on half dead specimens and deficiencies. If more examples of lush healthy plants existed in stores and in home tanks, the absolute majesty of it would convert more hobbyists to planted tanks, I feel certain.

A pro aquarium maintenance person helped me move my tank last year before I went high tech. I received compliments on my plants which were IMO in terrible shape at that time, just barely hanging on.

"that's Saltwater right" first question I get every time.
 
I think a major problem is supply and demand. I know of only one major nursery in Florida that supply’s aquatic plants for most of the country, but I think their supply is limited because they also sell pond plants and someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that’s their priority. Some of the largest aquatic plant distributors are in Europe, making availability to products and plants way more economical and easier to come by. I know there is a Tropica facility in Canada, and the only vendor I’ve used in the US that sells Tropica plants, is GLA. Not to mention, those products are also their most expensive plants since they come from across the border. I think until a major manufacturer comes to the US with their products and plants, it will be a very long time before the freshwater side can catch up to the reefers.

All my opinion of course 🤷🏻‍♂️
The nursery is Florida Aquatic Nursery and it's a good shop. In the second generation, family-owned. Unfortunately, the pond market in the US is MUCH bigger than the planted aquarium market. They focus on that. Also, 100% of their aquarium plant production is sold so no incentive to assist in expanding the hobby.

They do support the AGA and are friendly. We went to tour the place when the AGA convention was in Fort Lauderdale.

I tried to assist Tropica in getting the USDA to allow them to come into the US with a waiver. You see, the USDA won't let aquarium plants into the US if their roots are hidden such as with rock wool. It was a no go. So, Tropica exports to most other countries except the US.

Now that tissue culture is a thing and plants are being exported in agar, this may be different. However, I'm not aware that Tropica has tried again. Perhaps they thing the US market is currently not worth the effort.
 
I think a lot of it has to do with conventions, as well. A good friend of mine has a HUGE reef (800'ish gallons), and he has saltwater tank shows that he goes to at least once a month to buy / sell / trade frags. Nothing like that exists for the planted tank world AFAIK.
No. AGA convention every two years. The Chicago annual event. A few larger local clubs around the US.
 
I strongly suspect, at least in this country, the freshwater planted aquarium will never be as popular as the saltwater hobby.
Why do you think that is?
 
I've often likened this to Amercian football and soccer. Most don't appreciate soccer here because of the low scoring. They don't enjoy the "beauty of the game" (scape) and how it's played, but give them a long touchdown pass (big colorful fish) and the beer is all over the place.
Yet soccer is one of the most played sports in high school. Similar to freshwater tanks in the US. It is WAY more than saltwater but there is never a "conversion" or evolution from a freshwater aquarium to a freshwater planted aquarium. I've been after the "why" for years without a satisfactory answer.
 
Low-tech planted tanks are technically accessible to almost anyone, but exposure to even easy plants like anubias and crypts is pretty limited. My LFS has 60-80 different fish, but only a handful of sick, ugly, algae-infested plants. A store a couple of hours away has a much better selection and one o two CO2 display tanks, but their best tank is still visually nothing next to their 1000g densely populated reef tank.

I doubt 1 in 100 "fish people" have ever laid eyes on a really nice freshwater aquascape. Everyone knows what a nice reef setup looks like. They're in restaurants, airports, malls, etc.

The "Highest-tech" freshwater tanks are pretty temperamental. Many people give up after a couple of algae wars go bad.
This is one of my frustrations. LFS have terrible stock, if they have stock. Then they say plants aren't popular. Well... of course! You don't stock it so how can it get popular?

Claus Christensen of Tropica went to various LFS in the US with data showing that adding plants to inventory increased profits. Every store told him they didn't want to do the investment to keep plants alive. Investment?

They are willing to spend $$$$ to set up a system to keep delicate SPS alive, but a $ system to keep plants alive is too expensive?
 
In my opinion a large part of the problem is the resistance to CO2. What I am seeing over and over is that new hobbyists try plants but don't want to spend the money to get a proper CO2 system. They try plants without CO2, fail, and give up on plants.

On one side of the coin, we have a lot of people doing low tech and recommending plants that can "tolerate" environments without CO2 injection, to get more people into it as training wheels. But the issue is that they go too hard in that direction and we get people thinking they can keep all sorts of plants hanging onto dear life, so beginners have this false belief and false hope.

People are going into this thinking CO2 equipment as an optional, rather than essential part of the system like a light, filter, or even tank stand. Tank stands often cost just as much if not more than the tank itself, the same people willing to spend several hundred dollars on a stand will not spend 120$ for a CO2 regulator.

On the other side of the coin, we have gatekeepers that make planted tanks seem way harder than it actually is, so beginners are intimidated by planted tanks (and now it seems that "aquascaping" is lumped in as an interchangeable term). My perception is that these "gatekeepers" are making it seem this way as a way to make themselves look more impressive.
Hmm. Interesting take. Going to think more about this.
 
Yep, I've stated that same thing. When you start with co2, your starting with 1 or 2 strikes against you, because I believe all plants are somewhat co2 deprived without injecting it, even if they "grow". Success rate just increases dramatically with it. But I do understand the argument against starting with it.

It would take a ton of education and reassurance for people to view it as essential, similar to how they think of a light or filter.
This is why ADA came out very early on with a simple to set up, complete kit.
4_00.jpg It is sold as part of your initial set up so a beginner starts using CO2 right from day 1. Do we have something similar with brands available in our hobby?

Cost is a barrier to entry, although many jump into reef aquariums and invest well over $3,000 to start in the US. But, if a beginner is starting with a 10 or 20 gallon, do they need a full regulator with 5 or 10 pound cylinder or would it be better to purchase a kit like the above initially?
 
Very much agree with all you said.

This is very interesting and starting to take on a deeper meaning. Many of us here have joked in several threads that when people see our tanks, they ask "that's Saltwater right" and it makes a lot of sense. They just haven't seen a well executed planted tank like you stated. They simply don't know what it is, so the first reaction is saltwater since they have been more exposed to that.
Is this the fault of
  1. Local Fish Stores
  2. Big Box Stores
  3. Lack of National Events to Promote the Hobby
  4. No Companies in the Hobby Pushing for Sales and Growth
  5. A Conspiracy by the Reef Hobby??
 
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