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PO4 reduction from water column in tanks with new aquasoil

Pepere

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When I started a tank with Aquasoil I was advised to dose the water column with 10 ppm PO4 as the substrate would pull it out of the water column and test every few days and then re dose it as levels approached zero.

Over time the capacity to pull po4 out of the water column reduced.

I am left wondering how the aquasoil pulls it out. PO4 is an anion not a cation, so CEC shouldnt pull it out…

Basically I was looking up a list of cations to see what would tend to pull out of water column to the soil.

Can anybody explain it to me?
 
In a short abreviated answer: Its called Ionic Binding. PO4 ions are negatively charged. It gains 3 electrons. Soil is mostly positivly charged ex NH4+, 1 electron. The PO4 ions in water are attracted to and bind with the charged ions in the soil thus removing it from the water coloum.
 
well, Cations are positively charged. How do they get attracted and bound to the soil? How does the soil attract and bind both negatively charged and positively charged particles?
 
Soil particles have a net weak negative charge, not positive. I know that anion exchange capacity is a thing, and that it's inversely proportional the pH. Usually CEC >> AEC. I have no idea if that is what is happening here. Ion adsorption is loose - the ions become unavailable when they are adsorbed, but they pop off pretty easily too. There are other bonds that are much more permanent, like you see with iron and aluminum in acidic conditions and calcium in alkaline conditions in terrestrial soils. I don't know how those processes are affected by inundated soils.

Do people observe this phenomenon outside of 0 kh systems? It doesn't seem like something everyone experiences (I think? I haven't experienced it myself) so if there's a common factor that would give us a good clue.
 
Digging deeper I am finding some articles addressing it.


I dont fully understand the articles yet, but I will read it again…

Information Exchange Capacity…
 
I have heard about this. I have never compensated for it particularly and it hasn't prevented me from completing all my projects in less than 2 months (algae cycling finished, planted grown in with good density - examples below ).

As far as I know, ADA does not compensate for it either and their nature style tank successes span the globe with quite a smooth run in for the initial 3 months. From my estimations, probably less than 0.01% of all hobbyists dose extra PO4 to make up for the aquasoil binding. What makes these tanks so special, and what do their outcomes look like? I'm kinda skeptical. Is this yet another outcome of small group echo chambering.

2hrAquaristBeforeAfterTank2.webp


2hrAquaristBeforeAfterTank3.webp


2hrAquarist10 week growth.webp
 
A few years ago I won a Seachem contest. They gifted me 20 liters of Aquavitro Aquasolium (5x 4 liter bags). The stuff is darn expensive and hard to get due to how they sell it only in certian stores. Anyways its very black almost charcoal black. After a few months of use I kept finding these little white granules pop up all over the place when ever I uprooted a plant. All I can think of is something was binding to the soil creating them but did not investigate further.
Edit: Now I know they advocate putting Seachem Onyx Sand down in most of their planted tanks. It contains lots of carbonates and I believe calcium too. This was before they came up with the Aquasolium soil. Maybe they added / combined the two?
 
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@Dennis Wong, are you saying that this phosphate binding something that you experience and don't compensate for, or that you have heard of but haven't experienced?
experienced, but never compensated for. I use fertilizer that already contains PO4, but have never added extra in the initial stages where the substrate absorbs PO4. I just didn't find that it affects plants settling in.
 
The point of my initial query had a lot less to do with whether adding phosphates to compensate at the start of cycling aquasoils was a good idea, than wondering how it is that aquasoils cause a scavenging of carbonates and phosphates that are anions given the soil has Cation Exchange Capacity given ait has a net negative charge.

I have been digging into it deeper and am reading up on the internet and still have more questions than answers, but it does seem that while soils have a net negative charge they also have afeas of positive charges at well that do innfact bind anions too, but that the cation binding capacity is greater than the anions binding capacity…

In fact one of thesites I read was specifically saying not to worry about the phosphate issue as the plants could obtain phosphate from the soil as it was still in the tank though not in the water column early on..

Of course that leads me to wonder about rhizhome plants such as Anubias.. i have lost a latge stand of Anubias leaves in a tank once due to an serious outbreak of green spot algae covering leaves of the anubias that then was followed by the leaves melting away. The plant survived, but its beauty was marred and took months to recover. Again I am left with more questions than answers…. Does green spot algae form on anubias leaves because the anubias not have sufficient phosphates, or does green spot algae get triggered from a scarcity of phosphate in the water column? I have heard it claimed and seemed to experience outbreaks of green spot algae in association with very low levels of phosphates in the water column… but again, I have more questions than clarity and answers..

At this point my initial inquiry seems to have been answered that soils have both cation and anion binding ability and the ability to exchange both cations and anions
 
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