Playing around with sugar reactor.

[Pepere]

I am playing around with a sugar reactor on a 20 high.



The plants did fine when I had livestock in this quarantine tank and then seriously stunted and hair algae came in to play over a few weeks after livestock were removed.

Its a quarantine tank in the basement, so neatness and appearance doesnt count..

I started with 1 reactor and one co2 bell to get a feel for the output of the reactors.



I have all three reactors feeding into the wash water bubble indicator that then splits co2 into three separate bells in tank.



Calculations were telling me I would need 3 bells to get up to 15-20 ppm co2. Just looking for this midrange co2 level vs the 30 ppm of a full on display tank.



In the background you can see I have a very small flow powerhead to directs some flow beneath the co2 bells.


After running overnight I am seeing a PH drop of around 0.8-0.9 ish… leading me to think I am seeing a co2 level in the 15-20 ppm range.



Currently the reactors are producing enough co2 to have overflow with excess gas released in a large bubble that rises to the top of the tank and dissipates.


By having 3 reactors I can stagger the replacement if them so I will always have one bottle producing well, and able to extract the last bits out of the remaining 2 as they deplete…



Still experimenting on how much sugar gelatine to put in each bottle and how much water yeast to have on top to maximize production…



The glass bells were $9.99 each at Amazon and the only thing I bought for this. All the other bits I had on hand..

 

[Phish Tank]

I tried yeast based co2, but then went to citric acid based co2, which was my gateway drug to pressurized co2.

Maybe we should start a new trendy co2 delivery using sourdough starter to deliver co2 with less gluten and that sour taste the plants just thrive on.

 

[Koan]

By having 3 reactors I can stagger the replacement if them so I will always have one bottle producing well, and able to extract the last bits out of the remaining 2 as they deplete…

One fewer gas bottle to monitor and replace? Is gas access a hassle for you up there Down East?

 

[Pepere]

One fewer gas bottle to monitor and replace? Is gas access a hassle for you up there Down East

Mostly it is about experimenting. I am only looking for low level co2 in this aquarium to keep the plants thriving between times I have livestock in the tank.

I could tie in the co2 bells into a spare port on one of my tanks and pipe it downstairs.

I am going to play around with the sugar gelatin fermenters for a bit and may drop the system size a bit. CO2 in the 5-10 ppm range would be fine for this tank. I was surprised it got up to the level it did. I might drop to 2 co2 bells.

I want to experiment with bottle sizes and how much sugar and gelatin I put in them. MJ aquascaping reports 2 month run time with 250 grams of sugar, 3 gelatine packets and 1 cup of water. The gelatine slows and moderates the fermentation…. This was in a 1 liter bottle. Larger diameter bottles would likely see more co2 production rate due to larger surface area…

If I can get to a 2 bottle system with replacing 1 bottle per month, it wouldnt be too bad….

 

[Yugang]

A few years ago I looked into this, hoping to develop a more affordable method for CO2 injection. I gave up after having calculated that the costs of sugar consumption would exceed the cost of CO2 refill in a high pressure cylinder.

 

[Pepere]

I have done those calculations as well. The cost per pound of CO2 in a pressurized cylinder is much lower than the cost of consumables to generate a pound of co2 gas with citric acid and baking soda by a wide margin. Over $8.00 a pound.


Locally a 20 pound tank of co2 costs me $60.00 a swap. $3.00 a pound for gas. If I go with a 5 pound tank the cost of a swap is $47.00. $9.40 a pound. 5 pound tanks make no sense to me locally. I marvel at some of the prices I see that some of you are paying…

2 grams of sugar yields about a gram of alcohol, just under a gram of co2 and a small amount of waste.

Sugar costs $0.75 a pound. The gelatin input cost of moderating the reaction costs is the bigger input at $0.40 a packet, 6 packets per pound of sugar. Maybe $6.50 a pound for co2 from sugar reaction,,,, if everything goes right….

However there is no question that the cost of equipment for pressurized co2is much higher than the cost of used plastic bottles, used cut off bits of airline tubing and the odd spare gang valve or two.

It is then a question of how long before the gas savings of pressure system amortizes the cost of equipment required.

Co2 regulator at about $150.00 and 20 pound tank purchase at about $200.00.. $350.00. Looking at around 100 pounds of gas to break even.

In the case of this 20 high it remains to be seen how quickly a batch of sugar and gelatine will last. $1.80 a charge per bottle. MJ aquascaping reports he gets 2 months per charge per bottle. If I get good production for 2 months it would be a ceiling of $3.00 a month or $36.00 a year.

Pressurized co2 in a 20 pound tank would possibly save me $18.00 a year. When I make an energy saving investment in my properties I am pretty much looking for a return on investment of 7 years maximum. 4 years is much more attractive…. An 18 year roi would only be interesting if I already had to upgrade because existing item was failing.

$350.00 equipment cost would take nearly 20 years to amortize from savings from consumables. Interest costs of the equipment would exceed savings.

The economics of this only makes sense with small tanks with smaller co2 ppm increases in the tank.

I would never consider sugar fermentation co2 for a 75 gallon display tank.

 

[techman81]

I have done those calculations as well. The cost per pound of CO2 in a pressurized cylinder is much lower than the cost of consumables to generate a pound of co2 gas with citric acid and baking soda by a wide margin. Over $8.00 a pound.


Locally a 20 pound tank of co2 costs me $60.00 a swap. $3.00 a pound for gas. If I go with a 5 pound tank the cost of a swap is $47.00. $9.40 a pound. 5 pound tanks make no sense to me locally. I marvel at some of the prices I see that some of you are paying…

2 grams of sugar yields about a gram of alcohol, just under a gram of co2 and a small amount of waste.

Sugar costs $0.75 a pound. The gelatin input cost of moderating the reaction costs is the bigger input at $0.40 a packet, 6 packets per pound of sugar. Maybe $6.50 a pound for co2 from sugar reaction,,,, if everything goes right….

However there is no question that the cost of equipment for pressurized co2is much higher than the cost of used plastic bottles, used cut off bits of airline tubing and the odd spare gang valve or two.

It is then a question of how long before the gas savings of pressure system amortizes the cost of equipment required.

Co2 regulator at about $150.00 and 20 pound tank purchase at about $200.00.. $350.00. Looking at around 100 pounds of gas to break even.

In the case of this 20 high it remains to be seen how quickly a batch of sugar and gelatine will last. $1.80 a charge per bottle. MJ aquascaping reports he gets 2 months per charge per bottle. If I get good production for 2 months it would be a ceiling of $3.00 a month or $36.00 a year.

Pressurized co2 in a 20 pound tank would possibly save me $18.00 a year. When I make an energy saving investment in my properties I am pretty much looking for a return on investment of 7 years maximum. 4 years is much more attractive…. An 18 year roi would only be interesting if I already had to upgrade because existing item was failing.

$350.00 equipment cost would take nearly 20 years to amortize from savings from consumables. Interest costs of the equipment would exceed savings.

The economics of this only makes sense with small tanks with smaller co2 ppm increases in the tank.

I would never consider sugar fermentation co2 for a 75 gallon display tank.

Man! The cost of living on the east and west coast is crazy, although, I don't recall the cost of living in Florida to be that bad when I lived there in the late 80s-early 90s.

A 5lb CO2 refill costs about $34 in the midwest with a 10lb tank only being about $3 more and a 20lb $3 more than that. The cost of CO2 is cheap. Most of the cost is labor.

 

[Pepere]

A 5lb CO2 refill costs about $34 in the midwest with a 10lb tank only being about $3 more and a 20lb $3 more than that. The cost of CO2 is cheap. Most of the cost is labor

$60.00 is the cost of a swap. It covers the gas, labor, regulatory compliance fees and hydrostatic testing needed every 5 years.

It still seems rather pricey to me.

And $47 for a 5 pounder is rather insane.

I could inrease to a 10 pounder to save more, but 20 pounder is about as much as I want to manhandle…

 

[techman81]

$60.00 is the cost of a swap. It covers the gas, labor, regulatory compliance fees and hydrostatic testing needed every 5 years.

It still seems rather pricey to me.

And $47 for a 5 pounder is rather insane.

I could inrease to a 10 pounder to save more, but 20 pounder is about as much as I want to manhandle…

Hydrostatic testing does cost an additional $30 to $40 here but yeah, that cost is divided over 5 years. The only thing I use my 20lb tank for is refilling my 20oz paintball tank since it's hard to get those refilled., but I've used it to also refill a 5lb when I didn't feel like driving across town to get 1 tank refilled.

 

[Unexpected]

Locally a 20 pound tank of co2 costs me $60.00 a swap

Wow, my swaps cost 27 bucks. Crazy.

 

[Koan]

cost of living on the east and west coast is crazy

But then, we so very rarely have tornadoes

 

[techman81]

But then, we so very rarely have tornadoes

Right, just hurricanes, wild fires, nor'easters, earthquakes.....etc...etc....

 

[Koan]

hurricanes, wild fires, nor'easters, earthquakes

Don't forget volcanoes! and tsunamis

Haha, we'll take them. You can keep tornadoes

 

[Pepere]

Wow, my swaps cost 27 bucks. Crazy.

We gotta pay for all the snow removal from the parking lot…

 

[GreggZ]

I pay $20 for a ten pound canister. It's been $2 a pound for quite a while now.

Local fire supply store that fills a lot of CO2 cylinders.

 

[techman81]

I pay $20 for a ten pound canister. It's been $2 a pound for quite a while now.

Local fire supply store that fills a lot of CO2 cylinders.

We have one place left in all of KC that does refills, serving all the aquarists and home brewers, and their price hasn't changed in years (not that there are a lot of aquarists in KC using CO2 ) . Unfortunately it's on the opposite corner of the metro from me so I try to put off refills until I have at least a couple empty tanks.

 

[Pepere]

Only 1 company doing swaps in my town.

I could take a ride south to Portland and have choices of companies and likely cheaper prices with the competition, but that would be half a day to drive down and back.. and that would end up being more expensive than just paying the price locally. Time is money and all.