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Journal Frank's Dutch Attempt

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IMG_2900.webpIMG_2901.webpGot back from being a jet flyin, wheel dealin, kiss stealin, son of a gun very early this morning. Tanks were without a water change for 8 days so once I got some rest I got to water changes. AR mini and chameleon sword look way better now and I hope it continues.

GDA was NOT there at 1:30 am when I checked on my tank with a flash light when I first walked into the house (yeah I’m nuts just like the rest of ya’ll) but was when I got to the water changes.

More to come later once I collect my thoughts better. Probably two rambling posts with numbers and nerd stuff coming one for GDA and one for my micros.
 
Probably two rambling posts with numbers and nerd stuff coming one for GDA and one for my micros.
I am looking forward to it. I can only speak for myself but personally I love rambling posts with numbers and nerd stuff! :D :D
 
Your java fern windelov is coming in nicely.
Thanks! I was able to split a plantlet off a couple weeks ago to fill in the mess. Might get another one soon for the right side of the mesh.

Still looking for buckets of moss LOL. Might just setup a moss farm tank with one of my empties. Because I don’t have enough to do already.
 
GDA Thoughts

First off my observations here are for my tank only and shouldn’t be take as absolute for every situation.

I have been observing some things in this tank over the last few months. Mainly since the powerhead mess. Firstly, the plants always perk up and pearl more one water change day and for a few days after. Normally I’d blame that on poor CO2. However I don’t have any of the other issues that go with poor CO2 and for just about two months I have been rocking my @Yugang reactor so let’s throw that issue out.

What else happens on water change day or for a few days after? Front loading macros that’s what. The GDA has really only been showing up towards the end of the weekly water change cycle. IF I get in some extra water changes (more frequent macro dosing) it hasn’t show up.

My macro routine is front load 20-5-26 NPK based on changing 50% of the water. I use 32 gallons to determine my dose.

Based on this line of thinking I used rotalla buttery fly to some accumulation modeling. I could’ve used excel but rotalla butterfly is easy to use once you figure it out and you can’t break formulas with fat fingers.

Here is the boring base line graph using 20 ppm NO3 as a target. This assumes a couple thing. One that the plant uptake and water generation equal each other. So it’s a nice perfectly flat curve. Secondly RB assuming your dose amount is for the full tank volume so for my 50% water change I had to change my dose from 20 ppm to 10 ppm for it make sense. All things being equal front loading should be a flat line of accumulation. IMG_2902.jpegNow here is the same dosing regime assuming a 1 ppm daily uptake from plants for NO3

IMG_2903.jpeg
Notice how towards the end of the week the NO3 is getting lower and lower? My tank is very lightly stocked, maybe 20 small fish so there is virtually no bioload to generate much in the way of NO3. So I did the model again for 2 ppm daily NO3 uptake which is more realistic for my tank. IMG_2904.jpegAs you can see it bottoms out pretty quickly. I wasn’t totally satisfied with that one so I shortened up the time period to more closely match the time frame for when I’m seeing the GDA show up. IMG_2905.jpegSo if go more that two weeks without any extra water changes the NO3 starts dropping out which pretty much exactly matches the GDA issues I have been seeing.

I only used NO3 because it was first on my mind when I started down this rabbit hole, it could very well be PO4 or K bottoming instead.

Based on this I’m going to significantly up my front loading or maybe even switch to straight up EI style 3 x per week but I’m not sure which yet.

I am also musing the idea that the micro issues with certain plants that I’ve been having is directly related to the macros bottoming out. The micro symptoms have been sporadic (pallustrus white spots) very similar to the GDA coming and going and I think when the macros are good the sensitive plants are fine with XXX ppm of micro. Inversely when the macros start bottoming out or getting too low the micros start becoming an issue where the ar mini, chamelon sword etc. start throwing a fit.

I could be 100% wrong on all of this but this makes the most sense based on what I’m observed. It could just also be conformational bias and the real answer is I just stink at this.
 
GDA Thoughts

First off my observations here are for my tank only and shouldn’t be take as absolute for every situation.

I have been observing some things in this tank over the last few months. Mainly since the powerhead mess. Firstly, the plants always perk up and pearl more one water change day and for a few days after. Normally I’d blame that on poor CO2. However I don’t have any of the other issues that go with poor CO2 and for just about two months I have been rocking my @Yugang reactor so let’s throw that issue out.

What else happens on water change day or for a few days after? Front loading macros that’s what. The GDA has really only been showing up towards the end of the weekly water change cycle. IF I get in some extra water changes (more frequent macro dosing) it hasn’t show up.

My macro routine is front load 20-5-26 NPK based on changing 50% of the water. I use 32 gallons to determine my dose.

Based on this line of thinking I used rotalla buttery fly to some accumulation modeling. I could’ve used excel but rotalla butterfly is easy to use once you figure it out and you can’t break formulas with fat fingers.

Here is the boring base line graph using 20 ppm NO3 as a target. This assumes a couple thing. One that the plant uptake and water generation equal each other. So it’s a nice perfectly flat curve. Secondly RB assuming your dose amount is for the full tank volume so for my 50% water change I had to change my dose from 20 ppm to 10 ppm for it make sense. All things being equal front loading should be a flat line of accumulation. View attachment 4514Now here is the same dosing regime assuming a 1 ppm daily uptake from plants for NO3

View attachment 4515
Notice how towards the end of the week the NO3 is getting lower and lower? My tank is very lightly stocked, maybe 20 small fish so there is virtually no bioload to generate much in the way of NO3. So I did the model again for 2 ppm daily NO3 uptake which is more realistic for my tank. View attachment 4516As you can see it bottoms out pretty quickly. I wasn’t totally satisfied with that one so I shortened up the time period to more closely match the time frame for when I’m seeing the GDA show up. View attachment 4517So if go more that two weeks without any extra water changes the NO3 starts dropping out which pretty much exactly matches the GDA issues I have been seeing.

I only used NO3 because it was first on my mind when I started down this rabbit hole, it could very well be PO4 or K bottoming instead.

Based on this I’m going to significantly up my front loading or maybe even switch to straight up EI style 3 x per week but I’m not sure which yet.

I am also musing the idea that the micro issues with certain plants that I’ve been having is directly related to the macros bottoming out. The micro symptoms have been sporadic (pallustrus white spots) very similar to the GDA coming and going and I think when the macros are good the sensitive plants are fine with XXX ppm of micro. Inversely when the macros start bottoming out or getting too low the micros start becoming an issue where the ar mini, chamelon sword etc. start throwing a fit.

I could be 100% wrong on all of this but this makes the most sense based on what I’m observed. It could just also be conformational bias and the real answer is I just stink at this.
Interesting, I also get some GDA towards weeks end, started getting white dots on my Ludwigia and checked PO4 today (water changed last night) and was less than 4ppm. I was trying to keep PO4 at 10ppm. My guess is K is doing something similar.
 
This also makes me wonder if I should do something with Ca and Mg, because they are essentially front loaded.
I don’t think plants use much per week in the way of ca or mg. Maybe 1 ppm. So I think as long as your adding back as much as your taking out it shouldn’t decrease by any significant amount. That assumes your tank starts with an appropriate amount of GH. I don’t think front loading leads to any accumulation, it’s more for constant stable parameters.

When I was playing with the accumulation calculator last night no matter how I high I changed the dosing, it was always decreasing over time with 50% water changes. I didn’t think to mess with increasing the water change % - which also changes the “front load dose” to see what effect it had. Per @Burr740 it should keep things from bottoming out.
 
Interesting, I also get some GDA towards weeks end, started getting white dots on my Ludwigia and checked PO4 today (water changed last night) and was less than 4ppm. I was trying to keep PO4 at 10ppm. My guess is K is doing something similar.
One thing to keep in mind. If you are using the API PO4 kit it is repeatable but not always accurate. So if you want to dig deeper right before a water change take a sample of your pre dosed source water and tank water, then take another sample right after the water change. Then test all three. This will give you a better picture of what is going on. Just saying I have tested the API kit against calibrated samples over the years and it can be off quite a bit.
 
One thing to keep in mind. If you are using the API PO4 kit it is repeatable but not always accurate. So if you want to dig deeper right before a water change take a sample of your pre dosed source water and tank water, then take another sample right after the water change. Then test all three. This will give you a better picture of what is going on. Just saying I have tested the API kit against calibrated samples over the years and it can be off quite a bit.
Good idea, I’ll do this next water change day.
 
IMG_2927.jpeg

Minor trim and big ol’ water change of 90% give or take. Dosed the entire tank to 20-5-26 (N-P-K). Going to start my @Burr740 style macro additions on Sunday.

plant groups need some TLC to separate them better for width and height.

I need to update my micro dosing later tonight when I get more time.
 
Why is it the tank looks so yellow? Is that your lights or the phone? Just curious I feel like it’s washing out your greens and reds.

The plants look like they are really filling out and growing nicely!
It’s the stupid phone camera. I can’t make it stop turning everything yellow. If I take closer shot it looks WAY better but then the photo is too large to upload. I need to take a photo from far away and crop out a lot of it to get it down to size.
 

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