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Help 90g, Dutch style, first try

  • Thread starter Thread starter riioKen
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Having been in the hobby for 60 years I have learned to spend money on quality equipment from companies that care about their products. My wife doesn’t like me spending money to buy something again and again just because it’s cheap.
Thats very true but I've yet to run into a problem with jebao. I also love vipar specture LEDs lol.

But I'm team reef octopus for skimmers and geo for CARX. Buying used equipment and the right cheap equipment is a skill learned over time lol.
 
I just noticed this. Typically you calibrate with 4 and 10 and use 7 as a check that way your calibration is linear across your measurement/control range.
Didn't know that's a two point 4 10 is better than 4 and 7, but no, this controller uses 4/10 and 7 as calibration, but considering that I use 100% with 0 KH, I shouldn't be worried about above 7 measurements.
Instrumentation is only as good as the calibration and maintenance allows it to be. I often tell my clients, automation does not decrease work load, it shifts the work to a different area. It’s the same with a pH controller for CO2, you don’t have to watch flow rate or mess with your needle valve as much, but now you have to clean and calibrate the probe properly to ensure it operates the way you want.
Honestly, I prefer this kind of work, I'm tired to increase or decrease CO2 everytime I change light brightness, or when I change surface agitation. In the next weeks I'll receive the reactor, and 0 change on my side on the CO2 is way better. The pH controller has reminder every 3o days for the calibration of the probe

I need a suggestion on pipe placement (and again, when the jebao pump arrives, its placement, I bought the one that can be controlled both with physical button and through app, I chosen the safest way)
This is how I have the pipes now:
SKY20240121_073358~2.jpg

It's better this spot or where I placed the Cross?

About the wavemaker, it's better placing it just below surface level, to increase surface agitation (or maybe just behind the pipe with CO2?) or at substrate level?

@GreggZ @FrankZ I've tested my Ro water this evening, it was already remineralized with MgSO4 and CaSO4, 114ppm TDS (I filled the reservoir with ro water yesterday, I tested water after 24h), I checked the pH (remember, tank water is at 7.4 degassed, or it seems, tomorrow I'll test again) and the pH of ro water just before I adding it to the tank, was 6.18ph
 
@GreggZ @FrankZ I've tested my Ro water this evening, it was already remineralized with MgSO4 and CaSO4, 114ppm TDS (I filled the reservoir with ro water yesterday, I tested water after 24h), I checked the pH (remember, tank water is at 7.4 degassed, or it seems, tomorrow I'll test again) and the pH of ro water just before I adding it to the tank, was 6.18ph
The 6.18 pH sounds about right. Do you have anything in the tank that could be raising dKH ??

If so that would be counter productive.
 
Hi guys, long time since last update, the work, the gym and others irl things literally consumed me.

The tank in the last month was a HUGE MESS, why? Well when your slower plant (except AR) grows 5cm a week and you don't do maintenance (except wc) for a month (or a bit more), what do you expect?

I did 2 intensive maintenance back-to-back (last Saturday and Sunday) and one more is needed (probably this Wednesday), I literally did a reset. Unintentionally, I tested firsthand how much the filtration is limited in an aquarium with many, overgrown plants, I remember the thread "rotala kill tank" when Vin said that when algae appear usually a trim is very helpful (if plants are overgrown).




I did few changes, I've bought a jebao fan ELW-3M, it works great:

Before this I bought the "bigger" ones, ELW-20M but at minimum fish couldn't even swim and plants struggles to stay straight. I plan to buy another one and put it at the other side (can't decide if near the bottom or at the same height, just underneath the filter outflow). The setup with wifi was easy enough (remember, you can't connect it to a wifi 5ghz , only 2,4ghz, newer modem are all 5ghz but usually have a switch to 2,4ghz).

In 2-3 weeks I had leaks due to hoses, the inline diffuser broke and my chihiros auto doser literally exploded (the plug to the wall...). That's why the tank was a mess too.

Anyway, I rolled up my sleeves, I bought the new chihiros pro hose (they're freaking great, but they curve a lot), and installed them. I've bought even the reactor that I showed it some pages ago. It's working very good, 0 bubbles (except tiny ones that go straight out of the tank), it even has a spot of the pH probes, so, for now everything seems on track.

I plan to add more livestock, around 15-20 amano, and, with the help of @GreggZ, I plan to add some smaller rainbow fish, I would like to know if my tank is suitable for them.

I was thinking into Pseudomugil species (idk if they are true rainbow fish, if not I don't mind, I love them).
The one that I'm looking for are:
- Pseudomugil luminatus "red neon"
- Iriatherina Werneri
- Pseudomugil gertrudae
- Pseudomugil furcata
- Pseudomugil Paskai
- Pseudomugil signifier
- Pseudomugil celebs

Ofc, I already did research on Google (well our hobby is, if Dutch style, 50% trimming, 20% wc, 20% gathering information on net and 10% look at the tank after work, right?), just for reference, I'll list water params.

- pH 5.7 co2 on (for now I have co2 on H24, with a controller)
- tds before wc 230ppm, after wc 180ppm
- ro water GH 5 KH ~ 1
- temp heated 22°, in summer around 26° (27° if very hot day).

As you know, the tank is around ~280L.

Where I live they are a bit pricey, Gertrudae is around 16-17€ considering the size.

My question are:
1) is the tank suitable for them?
2) I read that they are picky eater, will frozen food be enough? If yes which one?
3) are vitamins/garlic nice for them?
4) will they interbreed? If yes, it will cause problems?
5) what should I except? Can all of them lives together (I would like to buy 3 big school, 10 each, not all of them)

The preference goes to Gertrudae, Paskai, celebs and werneri but I really love all of them. If I can I would buy 10 of each.
 
so your tank is around 75g, plenty big for the small rainbows. A quick search shows those fish consume live foods in nature, well so do all fish in nature. I would think, frozen and tiny pellet/flake would go over just fine.

I would think all would live together just fine considering they are all very similar. if they top out around 1.5", yeah I don't see why 10 of each would be an issue. I would not add all 30 at the same time though.
 
Technically blue eyes are not Rainbowfish, but that is of little concern. They are often lumped together as they are all from the same water in New Guinea and Australia.

I wish I could be of help but I have never kept them. I have always doubted they would do well with my mature Rainbows, as they are much faster and larger than the blue eyes species.

That being said I would love to see a Dutch type tank with them. If you go that route I will be very interested to see how they do.

On a side note if you feed frozen it's best to thaw and rinse before adding to the tank. Frozen foods that are just tossed into a tank can be an issue and tend to foul the water if used often.
 
Technically blue eyes are not Rainbowfish, but that is of little concern. They are often lumped together as they are all from the same water in New Guinea and Australia
Yep, I read that somewhere, they are more related with each other due to location than biology.
I have always doubted they would do well with my mature Rainbows, as they are much faster and larger than the blue eyes species.
Probably the blue eyes will be snacks, a very pricey ones.
That being said I would love to see a Dutch type tank with them. If you go that route I will be very interested to see how they do.
Definitely I'll follow this route, I've contacted few shops, the online ones have single varieties and not every species, so I would spend lots of money only for the shipping fees. I have a store near me (almost 100km from me) that is a bit annoying, but he said that usually with these kind of species he place a monthly order from a German retailer. I'll need to contact him mid March. We'll see.

The only thing that concern me, would be the interbreeding between species.
 
The only thing that concern me, would be the interbreeding between species.
I haven't raised them but I do know with Rainbowfish it is a concern. That's why breeders keep them separated.

There are hybrids out there, even some that have become common place and given names. If they just stay in your tank I wouldn't worry about it. If you were to want to sell offspring would be frowned upon by the breeder crowd.
 
I've found a shop that sell all of them, but can't guarantee the sex, what happens if there are more males? Something like "apocalypse now"?
No worries. I keep an all male tank. They will establish a pecking order and will be fine.
 
Guys I did a new macro soup, I mixed it as always, kh2po4, kno3 and k2so4.

I started using this new soup 2 weeks ago. But since using it I found that something is off. All the plants stunted, big diatoms blooms everywhere, wallichi is growing (first symptom thanks to "rotala kill tank") and Pantanal is stunted too but with tops turning white.

If I remember correctly, Wallachi grows when nutrients are low, and Pantanal turns white for the same problems.

I think something precipitated
I bought a new batch of k2so4 and kno3, it arrives next week.

These symptoms could be a sign of bad macro mix?
 
Guys I did a new macro soup, I mixed it as always, kh2po4, kno3 and k2so4.

I started using this new soup 2 weeks ago. But since using it I found that something is off. All the plants stunted, big diatoms blooms everywhere, wallichi is growing (first symptom thanks to "rotala kill tank") and Pantanal is stunted too but with tops turning white.

If I remember correctly, Wallachi grows when nutrients are low, and Pantanal turns white for the same problems.

I think something precipitated
I bought a new batch of k2so4 and kno3, it arrives next week.

These symptoms could be a sign of bad macro mix?
Nothing should have precipitated, those macros are fine together. Maybe you mixed the wrong amounts on accident?
 
Hey guys, I did it:


This guy is a Pseudomugil Paskai, and I have 6 tiny Pseudomugil Furcatus too.

Next week 10 Gertrude Aru 2 arrives and 10 Iriatherina Werneri.

I thought a lot of having only 1 species (Aru - paskai - luminatus) due interbreeding, but I heard that Werneri and Furcatus will not crossbreed, only paskai, Gertrudae and luminatus could. BUT, since I have cpds, tetra, pygmeus, I never had a single baby, so 100% guarantee that the eggs will be eaten (and the fry too), so what's the plan? 30L cube, where I place a spawning mop with only one specie at time. What do you think? Could it work?


Another thing, I heard that Pseudomugil are Jumpers, so I placed this thing on top of the tank
But I'm afraid of light being blocked, what do you think?

The squares are 1cm x 1 cm (0,39in)
 
But I'm afraid of light being blocked, what do you think?
It depends how much light you have, and how much you need for what you want.

The squares are 1cm x 1 cm (0,39in)
How much light gets lost depends not only on this, but also how high your lights are above your tank and at what angles the light comes in.

The light rays coming straight down, perpendicular to the tank, see this - very little losses
1710800351585.png
However, for light rays coming in at other angles, and see the mesh as below (same mesh but from your second picture), the losses may be close to 100%
1710800475805.png

So it is not easy to work out with a simple calculation how much light you lose. The light losses depend not only on your mesh but also how your light is positioned and the pattern of light radiation. Estimations, based on simple assumptions, may be far off from reality.

I would cover half of the tank with the mesh, leave the other half uncovered. Our eyes are very poor at detecting light intensities, so I would prefer to use a cheap PAR meter

Move the PAR meter in the tank and see what the mesh does and how PAR compares to your light intensity objectives for your tank.
 
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You are right, I'll check the photone which I already have and honestly I forget about it.

But the light is straight above tank, no strange angles, so perpendicular. The loss should be minimal.

Just as reference how is placed the light.
1000067911.webp

The mesh is placed exactly on the glass that you can see on top of the tank.

I think that the mesh is necessary because:
Next week arrive Iriatherina Werneri and I read that these guys are nice Jumpers, the Pseudomugil Furcatus, when the light is on, swim all around the tank, from top to bottom and then, when the light turn off they stay all the time at water level at very top of water column, so I'm afraid that they could jump.
 
But the light is straight above tank, no strange angles, so perpendicular.
Here light and optics maybe a bit counterintuitive. Think as each of the many LED's in your bar acting as a point source (reality is more complicated than that, LED have lenses focussing their beams, but for the moment assume it is), radiating in every direction - not only straight down into your water. The perpendicular light rays see little obstruction from the mesh, but there will still be light rays following other trajectories and experience more losses.

To make a long story short, you only know for sure when you measure it.

Note: if all light would go straight down, why would you need a shade/bezel on your light bar to limit the glare?
 
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