Journal Quag's tank journal(s) - 45g + 120XH

[Quagulator]

Spent the weekend transferring everything over from the 40 Breeder in to their new home. Took 2 days and 600w of heater to get the water from 60 to 84 degrees, but I made it work.

Plants are all broad leaved - swords / crypts etc. I will be adding more as I find them. This will be a "planted fish tank" (not to be confused with a "planted tank with fish")

I went ahead and checked the water parameters of my well water, and the water is a bit harder than I initially expected, however all the discus I will be purchasing are / will be bread in "local" tapwater and honestly the ones I have now are doing very well in my well water. "Local" tapwater is most often fairly hard.

From the tap:

205ppm TDS
11 dkh
10 dgh
0 NO3
0 PO4
pH - Didn't check, as I find this redundant if I'm not injecting CO2 (for now ) and I don't trust my liquid kit or my dried up probe.

Safe to assume most of the kh is Calcium Carbonate???

I'm going to ditch the idea of trying for root tabs only, too much inconsistencies, some plants were thriving, others were dying off. I'll likely still supplement some nutrients via tabs, but I won't be using O+ anymore. I'm going to focus on leaving these root zones untouched, and letting the rhizosphere develop and mature, and only use low salt index, slow release granular fertilizer in my supplemental root tabs.

So, instead I have front loaded (and will continue to front load):

15ppm NO3 (unless I notice NO3 creeping up from feeding live + pellet foods quite often)
25ppm K
5ppm PO4
5ppm Mg

Additionally, I will be using Burr's recommended micro mix from the Custom Micro Thread as a starting point - starting at 2x weekly vs 3x weekly doing levels.

Additional info:

CO2 - None for now, this will likely change within 6-12 months as CO2 just makes planted tanks so much better.
Substrate - Pool filter sand, not too thick because I ran into anaerobic pockets with this in the past.
Filtration / Water Circulation - Marineland C220 with sponges / biomedia (from the 40 Breeder) and a Hydor circulation pump for mass flow. Plants have a gentle wave back-and-forth and fish are freely swimming throughout the tank. Sump is still planned for the future.
Lighting - 2 x 32w JC&P Full Spectrum RGB LED's with reds + blues on 100% and whites at 60% - 6 hour photo period for now. DIY 2 x 80w T5-HO is in the works.
Temperature - 84 degrees, 2 x Fluval E300 heaters.

Livestock - 3 Discus, 1 small super red bushy nose pleco - I have another discus in quarantine right now to total 4. Will likely plan for 8-12 depending on size and aggression.

Plants are focused in the center, like a tropical island style scape, allowing for plenty of swimming room around the outside.

Feeding brine shrimp, pellets and sticks (not sure what to call them) 2-3 x per day.

First time I've ever had the chance to use an adapter on a normal water faucet.

 

[GreggZ]

Nice update Quag. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

I love the Discus and good luck with them. I've been keeping tanks for decades but am not sure if I am grown up enough yet to try them!!!

Is that the same size tank as mine.........60" x 18" 26"??

 

[Immortal1]

Obviously you are going further with the tank, but, it would make me smile to see the above pic submitted in the aquatic garden submission

 

[Quagulator]

Obviously you are going further with the tank, but, it would make me smile to see the above pic submitted in the aquatic garden submission

Lol! I have 2 dozen or so plants in shipment at the moment, so my Island Scape will grow and become much more dense! Perhaps if I can get these plants actively growing with some consistency I will submit This photo was from the day I set it up, so the water is a bit cloudy - I'll grab a photo of how it's sitting now.

Nice update Quag. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

I love the Discus and good luck with them. I've been keeping tanks for decades but am not sure if I am grown up enough yet to try them!!!

Is that the same size tank as mine.........60" x 18" 26"??

So far, the largest problem with Discus is finding selection that are not sick, and are actively eating. A few discus keepers I have spoken with are always stocked up on meds and are very diligent with selecting stock. My struggles are choosing between high quality, locally bred fish that have only ever eaten a custom beef heart mix (hard to get them onto my brine shrimp / pellets / sticks / flake program) or choosing from higher end fish stores that have them actively eating... but are prone to having parasites.... I don't like risking the main display tank, but I also don't like having to medicate every fish I buy.


Yes, 60" x 18" x 26"

This tank is VERY nice in my opinion. It has very thin black bracing, with thick glass bracing on the top. This makes equipment easy to get up and over the rim, and it gives the lights / lids tons of room to sit without risk of falling in the tank.


Couple photo's from just now:

 

[Art]

Hey love the tank. Island style will play very nicely with the discus just make sure to leave enough room behind the island for them to do circles around it. It also provides a hiding place for them which will make them stay out more. I've seen the circling behavior before and it's very cool.

I tried discus back in the 90s and failed miserably. I'm hoping you have good success with this tank as the combination of plants and discus (like big rainbows) is absolutely stunning.

 

[Quagulator]

Ordered plants late yesterday morning, 1500 miles later they are in my tank first thing this morning, great shipping experience.

Picked up:

Red tiger lotus x 1
Barclaya longifolia (bulb) x 1 - I'll be patient with this, hopefully it will grow in the tank eventually.
2 dozen various crypts


I'll grab some photo's later on when the tank lights are on and the glare from the sun calms down.

 

[GreggZ]

Barclaya longifolia (bulb) x 1 - I'll be patient with this, hopefully it will grow in the tank eventually.

Here's my advice. Plant it where you want it to grow then DON'T touch it. Could take a month or more. If you start to see any tiny leaves start to sprout then it's on it's way. But still don't move it. Barclaya hates being uprooted and can melt back to nothing but a bulb then start the process over again. Ask me how I know.

 

[Quagulator]

Here's my advice. Plant it where you want it to grow then DON'T touch it. Could take a month or more. If you start to see any tiny leaves start to sprout then it's on it's way. But still don't move it. Barclaya hates being uprooted and can melt back to nothing but a bulb then start the process over again. Ask me how I know.

It's in a spot where I will not need to touch it, no worries. If it grows, I will be happy, if it doesn't grow, no big deal.

 

[Quagulator]

45 gallon will simply not cooperate. I have never been the one to get frustrated with algae, typically good maintenance, water changes, fertilizer and patience works for me, but this time it has not been working. I think I'm going to try the 1-2 punch with my next water change, seems like a good time to crack the filters open too and clean out the sponges, I'll try for some back-to-back water changes after it's all done too. Plants aren't exactly growing like weeds, but they are growing, just not enough to out compete the algae.

Quick summary:

2 year old ADA soil version 2
4 x 54w T5-HO
Front loading all macro's and secondary nutrients - 20-5-20-30Ca-10Mg
Dosing daily micro's using Burr's recommended starting rates (sum of 3x weekly / 7 days = my daily dose)
CO2 was running lower than usual, and my timer's got a bit mixed up so CO2 was shutting off 1 hour early. I resolved this issue, but after a few weeks, algae continues to get worse. BBA , Green spot, green fuzz, brown fuzz are the ones I am battling.


I think I'll remove all plants that simply are too far gone, and focus on the fast growing species I have.

Couple reasons I think I am struggling:

1) Aquasoil is decomposing too fast - even though I have been gravel vacuuming like crazy each water change, it's straight black muck every time. I'm not upset over this, but it's something I will have to replace if it continues.

2) I'm overstocked and feeding a lot. This is introducing a lot of organics into the system, however I am heavily over-filtered and perform 70% water changes every week. This might not be enough, and only adds to the breaking down of Aquasoil.

3) When I was struggling with maintenance, I switched to tapwater for a while, everything started to go down hill from there, and I couldn't resolve it. Algae unhealthy plants and substrate breakdown.

The plan:

1-2 punch (using @Art 's updated version), clean out filters during this process, wait a day (to let Glute do it's thing) and then another 70% water change. Any plants that are struggling will see the trash.

If things do not improve after this, I think it will be time for a substrate change. And if that's the case, I'm not sure if I want to swap for an inert substrate again, or a soil, or completely upgrade the tank and join the 6' club.


Discus tank is doing very well, everyone is settled in nicely now. My oldest Discus was showing some signs of stringy feces, but it wasn't thick and white so I'm not sure if it was parasites or not. I fed her some medicated food for 2 days, and 2 days later, she seems okay. She never stopped eating, and isn't underweight, so I'm thinking stress from the move and adding a new tankmate might have caused this. Plants are showing good signs of steady growth, and I have all but 1 of 4 fish eating pellets - took me a while to figure out how to get them off brine shrimp. This tank get's 30% water changes 1x per week, but I might increase this to 2x per week when we order more fish.

I'll grab photo's once the sun is down a bit, way too much glare for a photo during the working ours.

 

[*Ci*]

I am really enjoying your tank journey
Following closely because I am considering a one-two punch as well. Please remind me what fish you have in your 45? My biggest concern is livestock safety. I hope you will detail your 1-2 punch procedure and outcome.

 

[Quagulator]

I am really enjoying your tank journey
Following closely because I am considering a one-two punch as well. Please remind me what fish you have in your 45? My biggest concern is livestock safety. I hope you will detail your 1-2 punch procedure and outcome.

~ 10 rainbowfish(2"-3")
3 congo tetra (2"-3")
4 cory cats
3 small angelfish


If I do the 1-2 punch, I will be sure to document the process and the outcome.

 

[Jellopuddinpop]

or completely upgrade the tank and join the 6' club.

If you're planning on doing another Dutch 'scape, this could be amazing.

If you're planning on having hardscape, I would suggest against it. As someone who's had a 6' tank for years, it's very, VERY difficult to aquascape. Depending on your dimensions, it's very difficult to use the full vertical space, either. Mine is 18" deep / 22" high, and it's a nightmare to get above like 50% height in the tank.

 

[GreggZ]

1) Aquasoil is decomposing too fast - even though I have been gravel vacuuming like crazy each water change, it's straight black muck every time. I'm not upset over this, but it's something I will have to replace if it continues.

2) I'm overstocked and feeding a lot. This is introducing a lot of organics into the system, however I am heavily over-filtered and perform 70% water changes every week. This might not be enough, and only adds to the breaking down of Aquasoil.

3) When I was struggling with maintenance, I switched to tapwater for a while, everything started to go down hill from there, and I couldn't resolve it. Algae unhealthy plants and substrate breakdown.

Nice update Quag!

Here's a couple of thoughts. You say "vacuuming like crazy". This can actually be a problem. Light surface vac is good, but deep vac over and over can be hard on the beneficial bacteria, and also releases lots of gunk into the water column.

But in general I think you might be on to something with the soil. I have heard when it turns to mush like that people have problems. And I know you well enough to know that you likely have everything else pretty well tuned in.........so that usually leaves the substrate, which is a source of more problems than people suspect.

And no doubt overstocking makes everything a bit more difficult. I have been guilty of that over the years, and in fact might need to cull my herd a bit right now. Good thing is I know some people near me who are glad to take on some stock.

I'm curious what is the tap water like? You were all RO before, right? Just wondering what issues it might bring with it?

 

[Quagulator]

Nice update Quag!

Here's a couple of thoughts. You say "vacuuming like crazy". This can actually be a problem. Light surface vac is good, but deep vac over and over can be hard on the beneficial bacteria, and also releases lots of gunk into the water column.

But in general I think you might be on to something with the soil. I have heard when it turns to mush like that people have problems. And I know you well enough to know that you likely have everything else pretty well tuned in.........so that usually leaves the substrate, which is a source of more problems than people suspect.

And no doubt overstocking makes everything a bit more difficult. I have been guilty of that over the years, and in fact might need to cull my herd a bit right now. Good thing is I know some people near me who are glad to take on some stock.

I'm curious what is the tap water like? You were all RO before, right? Just wondering what issues it might bring with it?

I've since stopped aggressively gravel vacuuming for the last 2-3 weeks / water changes. I wasn't finding any sort of benefit other than a big tank reset.

As for the other things, the only thing that was not in line (again, I have since corrected) was the CO2 timer issue, and the flow meter dropping flow just slightly. Instead of the 25cc's per minute it was 22-23cc's, I'm actually running slightly higher than 25cc's per minute with no luck in algae control.

I was all RO yes, life got busy and I swapped to tapwater for 2 months or so in the summer. Also, I was running an EI rate of CSM+B for this period, which likely did not help.

Tapwater is a bit worse than I initially thought (I only tested these recently when I re-set up the discus tank):

11dKH
10dGH
205ppm TDS
0 NO3
0 PO4


So most of the KH I would assume is Calcium carbonate because the TDS values are so close for both GH and KH.

I assume this vastly disrupted the tank's biome, and then I again switched back to RO 3-4 months ago doing a big tank reset, so this probably further disrupted it, and the added KH probably took it's toll on the soil, which is why I am seeing the decomposition of it.

100% RO @ 20-5-20-30Ca-10Mg are my front loaded values, 68% weekly water changes.

I think I'll go ahead and do a purge of plants + assess the tank for a potential 1-2 punch during my next water change. By purge, I mean any plant that is giving me struggles I will toss. These include mostly crypts in this tank. Cabomba's + rotala's + ludwigia's are giving me no trouble.

If you're planning on doing another Dutch 'scape, this could be amazing.

If you're planning on having hardscape, I would suggest against it. As someone who's had a 6' tank for years, it's very, VERY difficult to aquascape. Depending on your dimensions, it's very difficult to use the full vertical space, either. Mine is 18" deep / 22" high, and it's a nightmare to get above like 50% height in the tank.

Definitely will not be doing a true Dutch scape if I upgrade tanks - Garden scape would be the plan, probably with coal slag, colourful T5's plus RGB LED's.

I do like the dimensions of a 125, and the cost is substantially less than a 180 or 220. I have no issue filling the up the 18" of height with only 12" of depth currently, I would really like an extra 6" of depth and some more height. I typically build my stand's much higher than anything offered for purchase (aquarium specific). So when I look at the tank, I do not have to bend over to see under the rim - this gives the impression of a much larger tank, and allows me to see the entire scape standing / sitting anywhere in the room.

 

[GreggZ]

I typically build my stand's much higher than anything offered for purchase (aquarium specific). So when I look at the tank, I do not have to bend over to see under the rim - this gives the impression of a much larger tank, and allows me to see the entire scape standing / sitting anywhere in the room.

+1.

I built mine the same way. No bending over to look at the tank. One of the advantages of building your own, you can make it any height you like.

 

[Jellopuddinpop]

I do like the dimensions of a 125, and the cost is substantially less than a 180 or 220. I have no issue filling the up the 18" of height with only 12" of depth currently, I would really like an extra 6" of depth and some more height. I typically build my stand's much higher than anything offered for purchase (aquarium specific). So when I look at the tank, I do not have to bend over to see under the rim - this gives the impression of a much larger tank, and allows me to see the entire scape standing / sitting anywhere in the room.

A traditional 125g is 22" High & 18" deep (front to back).

 

[Quagulator]

A traditional 125g is 22" High & 18" deep (front to back).

Exactly, I would like the additional 6" of depth and the extra height. Plus, having 6' of length is a nice touch

 

[GreggZ]

Exactly, I would like the additional 6" of depth and the extra height. Plus, having 6' of length is a nice touch

Do it!!! I love following a new big tank build!

 

[Quagulator]

Do it!!! I love following a new big tank build!

I have found a very good deal on a 125g + stand the is the right height (36" tall) + Eheim 2217 + glass lids, but it also comes with a few cichlids and goldfish, white pea gravel, plastic decor, T8 lights etc that I would have to throw out, sell, rehome or give away..... it's in my hometown though, so maybe it's meant to be??

The only things keeping me on the fence are: I am planning on buying a bunch more discus in the next week or two (already bought 2 last night ) - I also want to get the sump going for that tank, I still need overflows, return pump, plumbing and media for that project - I would also need to buy substrate, re-finish the stand, buy more lighting and likely buy a larger heater or two (my office sits in the low 60's during winter - current low for today is -24 degrees! ) Oh, and of course my baby is due next month, so I don't want to have a brand new project on the go that needs a lot of my attention.

 

[Jellopuddinpop]

You're a brave, brave soul to start a project like this with a baby on the way!