Journal Frank's Dutch Attempt

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Yeah crypts will lay flat if they have the room, the more crowded it is the more vertical they will grow. Yeah getting nice and full, I keep eyeing the parawitota as a replacement for my hygro. Eventually I’ll bite the bullet and grab some.

Haha yes I have two little ones as well that can’t keep their hands to themselves.

 

[FrankZ]

Yeah crypts will lay flat if they have the room, the more crowded it is the more vertical they will grow. Yeah getting nice and full, I keep eyeing the parawitota as a replacement for my hygro. Eventually I’ll bite the bullet and grab some.

Haha yes I have two little ones as well that can’t keep their hands to themselves.

I’m going to have to thin out this massive street of parawitota soon. I can send you some when I do if you want.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Well hey that’d be great thanks!

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

If you want, I’ve been getting a lot of good side shoots from my Persicaria, it gets a beautiful red/pink at the top. I had some yeaterday but binned em before I realized I could give them away on here picture doesn’t do it justice, every pic I take on my phone the colors are washed when I transfer them to the website idk why.

 

[FrankZ]

If you want, I’ve been getting a lot of good side shoots from my Persicaria, it gets a beautiful red/pink at the top. I had some yeaterday but binned em before I realized I could give them away on here picture doesn’t do it justice, every pic I take on my phone the colors are washed when I transfer them to the website idk why.
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Thanks! I think that would be perfect for the right side of my tank that I’m struggling with a bit. I will let you know when I’m ready to up root and thin the parawitota, probably going to need a shovel.

 

[Count Krunk]

Tank looks good. For some reason it looks kinda of cloudy on the fts. Is that just the picture? Or do you have some cloudiness?

 

[Burr740]

Yea I hate when nice crypts lay flat. I think its more of a response to light intensity than anything else. Ive never seen any stand up from crowding but...cant say Ive ever specifically tried it either lol

Most nurii Ive had lay flat under big light which really sucks. Some Ive had that dont, or at least not too bad: Jacobsenii pink, Pa hang mutated, and Wendtii green gecko, other wendtii lay flat as a pancake

This is just ime running about 120-150 uMol at the sub level

 

[FrankZ]

Tank looks good. For some reason it looks kinda of cloudy on the fts. Is that just the picture? Or do you have some cloudiness?

There is something causing the cloudy appearance that I can’t figure out. It isn’t there all day only towards the end of the photo period. It doesn’t filter out either I ran 25 mls through a 0.22 micron syringe filter to see if it the filter would turn green or brown. It did neither and didn’t even bog down.

It sort of looks like Teenie tiny bubbles when I get real close. I guess it could be from the plants pearling maybe

 

[FrankZ]

Yea I hate when nice crypts lay flat. I think its more of a response to light intensity than anything else. Ive never seen any stand up from crowding but...cant say Ive ever specifically tried it either lol

Most nurii Ive had lay flat under big light which really sucks. Some Ive had that dont, or at least not too bad: Jacobsenii pink, Pa hang mutated, and Wendtii green gecko, other wendtii lay flat as a pancake

This is just ime running about 120-150 uMol at the sub level

It could be my light. 4x54 T5HO 26 inches off the substrate. Think that puts me in the 100-ish umol range.

I’ll check those out. I think the crypt leaf shape and color is perfect for that spot, just not way it’s laying down in the job. Although I might need to look at other players for that position.

 

[Burr740]

That downoi would SHINE in front of something red. AR mini behind it is a classic look and for good reason. Samolus parviflorus red would be another good option. You dont wanna get too dramatic or you'll have a focal point over there on the end. The palustris red should be the biggest most dramatic red in the tank because its in the focal spot. But itll catch up, work on making that group bigger

 

[Burr740]

Fertilization as of 8/4 is NPK 26/6/29 and Mg 5 ppm, once per week with 70% water change. Micros are burraqua at 3 x dose at water change then double dose mid-week.

Are you still doing this? Id back micros down to a 2x dose after the wc and another single or possibly two through the week. Nothing looks particularly bad but everything will do better

Thats a lot of NO3 too. Its probably not hurting anything but there no reason to have a nutrient soup if you dont need it. Its not helping the cloudy water situation either (not saying its the cause) Id try about 20. PO4 and K are fine

 

[FrankZ]

Are you still doing this? Id back micros down to a 2x dose after the wc and another single or possibly two through the week. Nothing looks particularly bad but everything will do better

Thats a lot of NO3 too. Its probably not hurting anything but there no reason to have a nutrient soup if you dont need it. Its not helping the cloudy water situation either (not saying its the cause) Id try about 20. PO4 and K are fine

I dropped down to 20-5-26 NPK after I switched to RO/DI. I front load them but I could easily split that up to 2 or 3 doses. Might be worth a shot

Edit: missed your comment about the micros. Current dosing is 0.17 Fe three times per week for a total of 0.51 Fe. Started that at the same time as the RO/DI. I reduce both macros and micros because I was reducing my water change %

 

[FrankZ]

I think I may solved the haze issue. It’s definitely not as bad after my chemistry experiment. Also swapped some stuff out. Crypts are gone. Replaced with AR mini (still kind of fugly from my low tech) and removed some of the meeboldii green for rosette swords just to see if I like it. The few days they have been in I think they will do better.

 

[FrankZ]

I need to get a gyroscope for my phone to take straight pictures.

Things are looking decent. Left side is really taking shape since I changed the crypts to AR mini and thinned out the rugosa and stellata.

I need to thin that hygro street in the next couple of weeks. It’s really taking over. I plan to widen the ludwigia red, left and right, once I thin the hygro street.

The right side I’m still working on. If I can find some blyxa japonica I want to use that with a small narrow bush of bacopa followed by a tall thicket of persicaria.

On the algae front, I’ve had persistent dust algae that won’t go away so I dropped my NO3 from 20 to 15. New dose is 15-5-26 NPK with burr Aqua micros still at 3 times per week for a 0.51 ppm Fe total. I’m not certain dropping the NO3 will stop the GDA but it won’t hurt and seriously doubt the plants are using 20 ppm NO3 per week anyway.

I licked the haze issues for good I think. A bit of bench top chemistry and microbiology made it disappear and it hasn’t returned in 3 weeks or so.

 

[Unexpected]

View attachment 3498
I need to get a gyroscope for my phone to take straight pictures.

Things are looking decent. Left side is really taking shape since I changed the crypts to AR mini and thinned out the rugosa and stellata.

I need to thing that hygro street in the next couple of weeks. It’s really taking over. I plan to widen the ludwigia red left and right once I thin the hygro street.

The right side I’m still working on. If I can find some blyxa japonica I want to use that with a small narrow bush of bacopa followed by a tall thicket of persicaria.

On the algae front, I’ve had persistent dust algae that won’t go away so I dropped my NO3 from 20 to 15. New current dose is 15-5-2 NPK with burr Aqua micros still at 3 times per week for a 0.51 ppm Fe total. I’m not certain dropping the NO3 will stop the GDA but it won’t hurt and seriously doubt the plants are using 20 ppm NO3 per week anyway.

I licked the haze issues for good I think. A bit of bench top chemistry and microbiology made it disappear and it hasn’t returned in 3 weeks or so.

I’m having the same issue with GDA. Lowered to 20,6,30 and it’s only slightly better. Hopefully your 15 will take care of it.

 

[FrankZ]

Some different viewing angles

 

[Art]

I licked the haze issues for good I think. A bit of bench top chemistry and microbiology made it disappear and it hasn’t returned in 3 weeks or so.

So Frank, how did you beat it? What was it or causing it?

Also, why do you use the foam filter in the tank? I think I see a canister filter outlet in there.

Lastly, your plants, to me, are looking very healthy. Great job! A suggestion is to stay away from straight lines.

Your aquarium seems to have enough depth given that you're able to have four lines of plants, especially with the pogo in the front as they take up quite a bit of space. Therefore, you should be able to create more visual depth in your aquarium by using curved streets with a vanishing point. Just my 2 cents.

For an example, look at this one by a top aquascaper. Notice the vanishing point that that there are no straight lines resulting in a heightened sense of depth.

 

[FrankZ]

So Frank, how did you beat it? What was it or causing it?

Also, why do you use the foam filter in the tank? I think I see a canister filter outlet in there.

Lastly, your plants, to me, are looking very healthy. Great job! A suggestion is to stay away from straight lines.

Your aquarium seems to have enough depth given that you're able to have four lines of plants, especially with the pogo in the front as they take up quite a bit of space. Therefore, you should be able to create more visual depth in your aquarium by using curved streets with a vanishing point. Just my 2 cents.

For an example, look at this one by a top aquascaper. Notice the vanishing point that that there are no straight lines resulting in a heightened sense of depth.

View attachment 3509

Thanks for the comments. Right now it’s straight lines because of my shoulder. I’m limited as to how I can twist and turn and how long I can stress it without causing to much pain. Part of the straight line layout was due to me just wanted to see how everything grows before putting in the effort to shape the groups. Honestly I’ve never been able to grow anything this consistently and nicely before.

I am not sure what was causing the haze exactly. It was very small whatever it’s was, in my professional world it would be considered soluble since it passed through a 0.22 micron filter.

Anyways, I did some bench top testing of the tank water using some inorganic coagulants to figure out a dosage of a coagulant I would be comfortable using. It only took 1 ppm to clear the water so I dosed the tank.

A few days later I added some bottle bacteria (tetra safe start plus) to boost the bio-film growth in the filter. That slime the bacteria generate is a great filter media for grabbing stuff that makes haze.

I am planning on pulling the sponge filters shortly. They were just a try and see type of thing before putting on my lab coat and goggles.

I do this sort of thing a lot for work, especially with freshwater discharge facilities so I know what is going to be safe for the fish and plants. If I don’t and things go wrong people show up with warrants and hand cuffs.

I was leery of sharing the details because you can do a lot of damage to an aquarium if you do not know what you’re doing by using coagulants and/or flocculants. The bacteria option is the safest and easiest but requires lots of patience.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

I was leery of sharing the details because you can do a lot of damage to an aquarium if you do not know what you’re doing by using coagulants and/or flocculants. The bacteria option is the safest and easiest but requires lots of patience.

Yes those clarifying products can wipe out your livestock in one dose.

The straight lines may not work for a Dutch but they are sure crisp! I totally get wanting to just grow the plants right first, especially if your still figuring things out.

 

[Art]

Understood.

I also agree that it is first most valuable to learn to grow plants and only then focus on improving their layout. One can't do the second without first doing the first well.