Competition to bury Java fern, Bucephalandra and Anubias rhizomes.

[Dennis Wong]

Inspired by growing slower growing rhizome plants as foreground/midground plants on substrate.
Makes me wonder just how deeply can one bury the rhizomes before it becomes an issue.

I guess for practical reasons, once the rhizome is slightly covered by substrate it will hold in place. However, what if we shove it a couple of inches deep ?

 

[JacksonL]

Aquarium Mythbusters is a Youtube series I would watch!

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

This post is perfect timing, I love all of your mythbusting in this hobby.

I can add my experience as well, representing the inert-substrate side in this exploration of planting "epiphytes/rheophytes" directly in the substrate. You'll cover this on the leaner, rich-aquasoil side of the hobby, I'll try it on the inert-substrate-rich-column-dosing side

I recently did a semi-reset on my experiment tank and about 3 weeks ago I planted 5 different bucephalandra species directly into the inert (BDBS ) sand:



Most I planted with the roots in the substrate and the rhizome exposed, but some are buried full rhizome in the sand.

90% of the buces I had came from emersed-grown setups from Daku aquatics, and after 3 weeks, all the old emersed leaves have BBA /algae, but the new growth is algae-free and growing just fine buried in the sand. I've tried to trim as many of the algae-covered emersed leaves as possible, but it's hard with some of these smaller buce varieties! I'll eventually just uproot them for easier emersed-leaf-removal, then replant them.

Dennis, you have me tempted to try the same with some Java Fern! I have a few dwarf java ferns I could try in here for the same purpose...

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Dennis, you have me tempted to try the same with some Java Fern! I have a few dwarf java ferns I could try in here for the same purpose...

I can only imagine they’d do extremely well, as those long stringy roots grow like mad when established and always find their way down to the substrate.

 

[Dennis Wong]

The smaller buceps do look like they will make a nice foreground cover

 

[snowballs99]

I think they just hate low oxygen and high organics in water column more than anything.

I've also planted them directly in ada Colorado sand around 1 inch and it grew fairly well. But it was a medium size stem and not a nano species.

 

[Jeff Miotke]

I know Barr has been doing this for a long time. i visited him a few years back and most of his buce was in the substrate.

 

[hamfist]

Interesting discussion. I'd imagine the grain size of the substrate could make a large difference - larger grain size giving better water flow and oxygenation in the substrate. Also the cleanliness of the substrate could well affect things significantly, which seems a difficult things to control and compare between different setups.
I will watch this space with interest.

 

[SingAlongWithTsing]

it was his 70 gallon tank right?

I see a lot of people in viet fb collector groups bury their roots in the sub too to farm em for sell

 

[snowballs99]

Interesting discussion. I'd imagine the grain size of the substrate could make a large difference - larger grain size giving better water flow and oxygenation in the substrate. Also the cleanliness of the substrate could well affect things significantly, which seems a difficult things to control and compare between different setups.
I will watch this space with interest.

I can't quite describe the term, but is there something to describe high volatile organics that's not just ammonia? You know, when organics are actively breaking down and consuming a ton of oxygen.

Sudipta had some planted in aqua soil bowls with visible ammonia readings. The buces didn't melt and grew fine.

Maybe it has something to do with how well ur substrate supports a wide variety of microbes to keep it stable as well. Etc, Seasoned sand with broken down fish mulm grows plants a lot better, more stable than new sand.

And oxygen demand of your substrate as well.

Plain sand doesn't have much oxygen.... But it probably doesn't need much either?

 

[*Ci*]

I can't quite describe the term, but is there something to describe high volatile organics that's not just ammonia? You know, when organics are actively breaking down and consuming a ton of oxygen.

To me this is the definition of DOCS (dissolved organic compounds).

 

[Jeff Miotke]

it was his 70 gallon tank right?

I see a lot of people in viet fb collector groups bury their roots in the sub too to farm em for sell

Yes that one and a couple more in his garage.

 

[Dennis Wong]

If/when the small buceps take off I think it would work very well. Then we have a different color tone for foreground. Might be slightly higher in upfront costs, but they do multiply over time

 

[Jeff Miotke]

Yea it works really well for scaping and adding some different color and textures in more traditional carpeting plants. I used this technique in this layout with both buce and anubias.

 

[ElleDee]

I can't quite describe the term, but is there something to describe high volatile organics that's not just ammonia? You know, when organics are actively breaking down and consuming a ton of oxygen.

I'm late to the party, but I was reading about the decomposition of organic matter in my soil science textbook (Elements of the Nature and Properties of Soils, Brady and Weil) and came across this relevant list:


For a frame of reference, I have pine bark bits in a substrate that is 6 years old that are still intact. These have a very high lignin content before they break down and at this point I assume it's only a lignin skeleton that remains. The substrate is still productive though.

 

[MrJG]

Joining in for this on the low/no tech side I added a Java fern ‘Philippine’ baby and some Anubias ‘petite’ buried in quite old (6-7 yrs?) Ada Amazonia v1 under around 30 par at substrate, no co2, tank is ~6 gallons and currently gets .1 ml of apt3 on water change day 10-20% once a week.l

Need to jam the fern in there a bit further, couldn’t be bothered to remove the full lid to fit my hand in.

Will report back in August?

 

[JayP]

Joining in for this on the low/no tech side I added a Java fern ‘Philippine’ baby and some Anubias ‘petite’ buried in quite old (6-7 yrs?) Ada Amazonia v1 under around 30 par at substrate, no co2, tank is ~6 gallons and currently gets .1 ml of apt3 on water change day 10-20% once a week.l

Need to jam the fern in there a bit further, couldn’t be bothered to remove the full lid to fit my hand in.

Will report back in August?
View attachment 15216

I've heard anti aquasoil people claim it turns to mud too fast. They should see this photo.

 

[MrJG]

I mean if you treat it terribly sure it can/will disintegrate. I do a deep dive vacuum at least 1 small section every few months and I know there are spots that I can’t reach that may have some compaction.
I can’t remember what the lighter brown stuff is in there it’s been so long but it hasn’t held up as well structurally speaking.

 

[JayP]

I can’t remember what the lighter brown stuff is in there it’s been so long but it hasn’t held up as well structurally speaking.

Did you start with a layer of ADA powersand? I used it in my farm tank and over time as the aquasoil gets stirred up from planting and removing, the small white pumice like material ends up strewn around the top. perhaps it turns brown over time.

 

[MrJG]

Definitely not powersand in this case. I used it in multiple tanks and had it in 5 gallon buckets of old soil. Still has that whitish coloring and is super light. Always works its way to the top. I feel like this was a non-ada soil just can’t recall the name.