Journal Advanced Planted Tank .... Amateur version

[techman81]

I am planning to get some Amano Shrimps as part of clean up crew.

No prior experience with shrimp.

How many do you think would be good for this 25 gallon tank? There is good amount of filamentous algae.

If there are tips to prevent them from coming out of the tank, let me know as well since I don’t plan on getting a lid.

Thanks

I started with a dozen young Amanos in my 49 gallon main display tank just over 9 months ago. As of today, I have at least 4 and maybe up to 7 remaining. It's a big range because, while mine aren't too shy and do spend good time foraging in the front, there are lots of good hiding places, so it's hard to get a accurate count. I have found at least 3 bodies around the house while cleaning. It's amazing how far they can travel from the tank. I'll likely get some more soon because, even with the losses, I think they are well worth it. I will say also, that I think big tank maintenance days are when they have been most likely to escape.

 

[Sb1415]

Ended up adding 3 Amano shrimps, and now i can't find them

 

[techman81]

Ended up adding 3 Amano shrimps, and now i can't find them

When they're young and small, they're hard to spot. They can blend in well in a tank even with no hardscape. Once they get large, they stick out much better.

 

[Dennis Wong]

I remember this incident from years back. I gave a local shop 20 stems of Rotala florida, and the guy bundled them loosely and placed them in his Amano holding tank just for holding. He forgot about them for a day and when he returned virtually every stem had been stripped of its leaves. Most Amanos avoid most plants, however, I've seen enough damage that I have avoided keeping amanos since 10 years ago. I find the smaller shrimp types better replacements as they are more aesthetic as well.

 

[Sb1415]

I remember this incident from years back. I gave a local shop 20 stems of Rotala florida, and the guy bundled them loosely and placed them in his Amano holding tank just for holding. He forgot about them for a day and when he returned virtually every stem had been stripped of its leaves. Most Amanos avoid most plants, however, I've seen enough damage that I have avoided keeping amanos since 10 years ago. I find the smaller shrimp types better replacements as they are more aesthetic as well.

Just as I was happy that I spotted the Amanos! I read about them munching on AR but did not realize about R.Florida.

Do you use any other Algae eating crew? I was going to get cherry shrimps but did not want them to over populate.

The other Algae eating crew I have now are Otos (3 for this 90L) and 3 nerite snails.

Thanks for sharing info as always.

 

[Dennis Wong]

Just as I was happy that I spotted the Amanos! I read about them munching on AR but did not realize about R.Florida.

Do you use any other Algae eating crew? I was going to get cherry shrimps but did not want them to over populate.

The other Algae eating crew I have now are Otos (3 for this 90L) and 3 nerite snails.

Thanks for sharing info as always.

I use dwarf shrimps in every tank, not so much from an algae aspect but because I kinda like them for adding colour and life to the tank environment. I think snails and microbial maturity consumes algae to some extent, and matured setups are more stable/algae resistant than newer tanks. I'm not so big for adding fish algae eaters unless I want to keep the fish itself as part of the display.

 

[Count Krunk]

FW live bearers can store "fertilizer" (lol) for i believe several months so they can continue reproducing without males present.

 

[Sb1415]

Day 34 - Updates, Additions and Findings

Water change
- 65 - 70% twice/week. Moving forward will be once/week.

Co2

• I have tested with the Hanna Co2 kit and i get about 40 ppm when lights come on and relatively stable
• Got a HM Ph meter as well for ease of use

-- 5 am - 6.9 (Co2 turns on)
-- 7 am - 5.9
-- 1 pm - 5.7
-- 4 pm - 5.9 (Co2 turns off at 3 pm)
-- 10 pm - 6.4
- Ended up increasing the bubble count slightly (I don't know where people get 1 bubble/sec rule mine is going crazy fast). All fish doing well.

Light
- Went from 60% to 80% intensity.

Testing
- Phosphate 0.25 ppm, Nitrate 0.2 - 1 ppm

Additions

• Added some H.Pinnatifida
• Added small stalks of B.Carolina (took over my prior tank - so being very careful)
• Added some more hairgrass mini
• Added 3 Nerite snails, 3 small Amano shrimps

Plant updates
Main view - Overall happy with the growth so far, definitely some Algae.


Side view





P.Decannensis street - I like the smaller ones in the front. I might need to re-think about this since I had wanted something smaller width wise. Maybe a Tonina sp ?


R.Florida and R.Tulu - These are very slow growing but very stable. The tulu need sometime but no melting and looks good just need to grow


R.Indica Bonsai - Doing well, got some orangish hue on top.
L. Arcuata - This plant does NOT like my tank - it won't grow - I am thinking of removing this and just filling it with R.Blood red which is thriving. @Dennis Wong @Burr740 or others any thoughts on this ?


B.Japonica - I don't have a PAR meter nor the iphone app but i think the reddish tones of the thriving Blyxa tells me there is good amount of light.


B.Carolina - new addition, looking forward to see tall plants with pink plants to merge the AR to the L.Wilsonii. THe L.Wilsonii and the L.Hippuroides needs time.


S.Repens Melt - @Dennis Wong had warned about this on his website, but this plant develops these spots and then the leaf just melts. Tom Barr made a comment on this decades ago and said it is just the plant adapting so waiting to see what happens



Fertilizing:
I saved this part for the end since I wanted to understand it better before making changes. After watching Tom Barr’s recent video, I got more interested in the EI method and went down the rabbit hole a bit. I also came across Greg Watson’s old “Guide to Dosing” ,worth a read if you haven’t seen it.
My main takeaway is that the EI approach is the simpler approach The regular water changes make it forgiving, and you don’t have to constantly chase test numbers. In my case, though, I prefer slower, steadier growth with less trimming, so I’m aiming for something between lean dosing and full EI. I initially wanted to rely mostly on soil based nutrition, but that doesn’t seem realistic long term, so I’m taking a more calculated approach with water column dosing.

Rather than tracking every parameter, I’m just going to follow nitrates and use that as my guide for plant growth. I trust Dennis’s macro and micro ratios in APT 3, so instead of tweaking everything, I’ll only adjust based on nitrate trends.

Here’s the plan for now:

• Start with 1 mL of APT 3 daily, which should give about 0.5 ppm NO₃ for my tank.
• Dose 2 mL after every water change.
• Recheck nitrates before each water change and fine-tune from there to ensure Nitrates around 1-2 ppm

 

[techman81]

Looking great!

- Ended up increasing the bubble count slightly (I don't know where people get 1 bubble/sec rule mine is going crazy fast)

Yeah I never could figure out that 1 bubble per second guidance either. My bubble count is fairly high on my 49 and 40 gallon tanks. My 7 gallon tank is closer to 1 bubble per second though. I'm hoping, switching over to the Yugang will improve efficiency.

 

[Dennis Wong]

You should quickly remove the affected leaves in Staurogyne repens !!!! It spreads to adjacent areas and plants.
Quickly removing all affected leaves, siphoning the localized area can stop it's spread.

For Ludwigia arcuata, the sample you got may have been badly stunted for whatever reason. But its a super adaptable plant and I can't see it not adapting eventually. I think if you just wait it will come back for sure.

 

[Sb1415]

You should quickly remove the affected leaves in Staurogyne repens !!!! It spreads to adjacent areas and plants.
Quickly removing all affected leaves, siphoning the localized area can stop it's spread.

For Ludwigia arcuata, the sample you got may have been badly stunted for whatever reason. But its a super adaptable plant and I can't see it not adapting eventually. I think if you just wait it will come back for sure.

Chopping more leaves off then. They seem to keep coming back but lets see.
L.Arcuata - Never crossed my mind that a sample of TC might be different and not as good. Will wait till Day 60 and make a call on getting new L.Arcuarta

 

[Lush_Aqua]

Nice journal! What's driving me crazy is that I seem to be the only one I know not getting bright red growth from my R. Bloodred (Singapore) from new leaves right away. I'm also running the WRBG II Anniversary + APT1 on my 40g tank + C02. I've got a mass of healthy plant, but it only the tops get bright red after spending some time "tanning." Most of the leaves are showing a mix of dark green-pinkish initially. Perhaps I am planting wrong and should replant only the tops?

On a side note, I laughed at your Tripartita comment to keep it at bay. I have a small baseball clump growing that is starting to have older leaves yellow and slightly fray. I started adding occasional doses of Potassium, but I have a feeling some of the new leaves are getting chewed on.

I attached a photo from a few weeks ago when the jungle was just absolutely taking over, so plant growth is strong overall. Just these small details are starting to unnerve me. I spent quite a bit re-organizing this weekend, so this feels a bit like having a messy room with guests coming over...

 

[Burr740]

@Sb1415 Love the detailed updates! Tanks looking great too

@Lush_Aqua Rotala BR SG isnt exactly a low dosing plant, its also fast when its happy. Most of my tanks roll with a rich water column and itll be one of the first to start looking poor if anything runs low. Im not saying it needs high nutrients in the water, thats just what my plants are adjusted to. Under those conditions it is one of the first to want more.

I can tell by your H trip color that your water column levels are pretty lean. You might need to change your pruning/replant habits with fast stems like the rotala. Instead of replanting tops leave the bottoms. Cut the current crappy top off and let it grow new ones, whixch should be better because the bottom has time to grow some roots. Thats a good way to handle any fast stem in lean water, just takes a little more patience. If most nutrients are at the roots you gotta give the plant time to make some

 

[Lush_Aqua]

@Sb1415 Love the detailed updates! Tanks looking great too

@Lush_Aqua Rotala BR SG isnt exactly a low dosing plant ime. Its fast when happy too. Most of my tanks roll with a rich water column and itll be one of the first to start looking poor if anything runs low. Im not saying it needs high nutrients, thats just what my plants are adjusted to. Under those conditions it is one of the first to want more

I can tell by your H trip color that your water column levels are pretty lean. You might need to change your pruning/replant habits with fast stems like the rotala. Instead of replanting tops leave the bottoms. Cut the current crappy top off and let it grow new ones, whixch should be better because the bottom has time to grow some roots. Thats a good way to handle any fast stem in lean water. If most nutrients are at the roots you gotta give the plant time to make some

Really appreciate the feedback! I am about to run out of my first bottle of APT1. I am planning to move over to APT3. I understood APT1 was ideal for newer tanks, but I presumed I was going to run out of ferts in 3 months (tank is 5months old). I will have to follow-up in a bit to see if this has major impact. This fits my concerns over my P.Decannensis also showing some changes in behavior since its last big chop. I heard it would stunt at times when ferts/changes occurred. I originally thought the spotty stunted stems was shock from being cut/uprooting.

 

[Burr740]

Really appreciate the feedback! I am about to run out of my first bottle of APT1. I am planning to move over to APT3. I understood APT1 was ideal for newer tanks, but I presumed I was going to run out of ferts in 3 months (tank is 5months old). I will have to follow-up in a bit to see if this has major impact. This fits my concerns over my P.Decannensis also showing some changes in behavior since its last big chop. I heard it would stunt at times when ferts/changes occurred. I originally thought the spotty stunted stems was shock from being cut/uprooting.

I think switching will be of great benefit. Your water has to be very lean from the H trip color. As to the rest, its not so much "shock" after trimming, just that a fresh cut top with no roots is gonna starve til it makes some, if thats where all the nutrients are

Changes in parameters often stunt stems, even a good change. The plant adjusts by abandoning the current growth (top) and puts all its energy toward making new side stems that are better wired for the new conditions. The top stunts but its really just adapting with new growth. Same principal that makes stable co2 so important. Plants make dramatic inner adjustments around co2, if its not stable theyre in a constant state of stunt/adapt/regrow

 

[Sb1415]

What's driving me crazy is that I seem to be the only one I know not getting bright red growth from my R. Bloodred (Singapore) from new leaves right away.

Hey thanks for reading! I differ to @Burr740 who is a pro on this. My only observation is that the the R.blood red looks much redder underneath the leaf than on the top aspect of the leaf. Most of my pics are done at night (when my kids are asleep and i have some time to myself), when the leaves are closed and they appear redder. The lighting definitely plays a role. See pic below during day without too much light. Hope this comment helps. Not sure if this is the case with others as well, but this is my honest response.



In regards to the H.Tripartita - I hate to make any comment based on my singular experience which likely does not have any value than someone with more experience with multiple tanks. But in my prior 29 gallon tank which you can see in my other journal Beginner scaper journal, entirely took over a section. I was not dosing much fertilizer, occasional Easy green but did have handful of fish (almost the same amount i have now). It just seemed to like my tank, it grew ok in my tap water (high GH, high KH) but really took off with RO water with KH close to zero and GH around 5-8.

I love how red your H.Pinnatifida looks when hiding, look forward to seeing it more. It is one of my fav. plants although did start taking over parts of my now deceased 29 gallon tank.

You should start a Journal !

 

[Sb1415]

I decided to pull out my L. arcuata since it wasn’t growing well and was turning into an algae magnet. I’ve ordered three new bunches of Ludwigia arcuata from Buce Plant.

It’s been a while since I’ve worked with emersed forms—assuming Buce sends them that way, what’s the best approach to planting? Do you remove the emersed leaves completely and plant just the bare stems, or do you leave them as-is and let the submersed growth replace them naturally?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

I decided to pull out my L. arcuata since it wasn’t growing well and was turning into an algae magnet. I’ve ordered three new bunches of Ludwigia arcuata from Buce Plant.

It’s been a while since I’ve worked with emersed forms—assuming Buce sends them that way, what’s the best approach to planting? Do you remove the emersed leaves completely and plant just the bare stems, or do you leave them as-is and let the submersed growth replace them naturally?

Thanks in advance!

For emersed stems, I strip the lower leaves and leave a small number of leaves on the top. For example, with emersed S repens, I remove all but the top 4 leaves (two pairs).

For rotalas that have tons of leaves, I don't bother removing emersed leaves and just stick them into the substrate, but I do keep their length kept to ~2" max. You don't want to plant 5" long emersed stems in your tank, since the new growth will leave the emersed stems in tact and shaded beneath, which isn't good for longevity. Giving your emersed-grown stem plants a chance to grow 90% of their size as aquatic forms is much better, IMO, than having partly or majorly emersed tissue in the tank that will eventually become problematic.

 

[Koan]

You don't want to plant 5" long emersed stems in your tank, since the new growth will leave the emersed stems intact and shaded beneath, which isn't good for longevity. Giving your emersed-grown stem plants a chance to grow 90% of their size as aquatic forms is much better, IMO, than having partly or majorly emersed tissue in the tank that will eventually become problematic

Brilliant!

 

[Sb1415]

Day 39 - Updates and Findings

Water Change - 70%
Fertilizer - APT 3 - 2 ml daily, 4 ml post water change

Co2 - Checked with Hanna Co2 kit and got 60 ppm, double checked and the same. This was around the time the Co2 was going to turn off. Interestingly none of the fish seems bothered. The Nerite snails seem to be at the air - water level during the daytime, maybe this is their way to show sensitivity to Co2. Good surface agitation, no scum. Might be safer to turn down Co2 to have a better buffer, but left it as it is for now.

Nitrate - I added just 2 ml of APT 3 post-water change on the night of Day 38, and found Nitrate to be Zero in the morning. Ended up dosing extra with the plan of 4 ml post-water change moving forward.

Plant updates

Rotala Blood Red - First shaping trim


Blyxa
Definitely gotten more red than I had expected. Hopefully the Rotala Indica Bonsai which is right behind it and the L.Cardinalis mini which is at its base will have some nice contrast. The Space behind the R.Indica is for a new bunch of Ludwigea Arcuata. I am concerned that the color tones of the Arcuata, Indica and now the Blyxa will all be the same ..... but planning to stick to the plan and see where it goes.


AR Roseafolia, L.Wilsonii, L.Hippuroides, R.Tulu.
The AR has been growing well but the leaves have some fuzz algae, let's see if it is going to need more trimming. The Limnophilla Hippuroides, L.Wilsonii and the Rotala Tulunadensis have been growing well. The B.Caroliniana has gotten some new leaves. Wanted to see if I could plant some Anubius (nana) but not holding onto the substrate next to the AR. Might not be a good idea given the slow growth but lets see. The Rotala Tulu. is one of my fav. plants slow and steady it is a beautiful color and shape! I might need something to separate that from the syngonathus but hopefully the AR leaves will be big ebnough to seperate them.



Rotala Florida/P.Decannensis
The R.florida continues to look great, and as @Burr740 warned me, it it the main star of the tank. But has pretty slow growth compared to all the other plants, see comparison. The P.Decannensis street looks ok as well. The more recently planted shoots still have'nt caught up with the ones in the front. The front ones might need a trim soon, but feel that trimming them will just result in lot of side shoots and not look like a nice street.



Algae
At this point I consider it part of my tank! But no pics for them!
Filamentous algae all over the tank, easily pulled out but it is present everywhere. Hopefully as the tank mature it will go away.

Upcoming updates
Excited for the L.Arcuata emersed plants to come from Buce plant. Updates to come next weekend........

As usual thanks for reading, and feel feel to post questions, comments, suggestions etc..