When Auto Pilot Goes Wrong

Unexpected

Unexpected

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I figured I would post here versus posting in my journal this odd issue I'm having; maybe others will find this post helpful versus stumbling across my journal. I hate typing so bear with me when I shorten sentences.

I have 2 tanks battling the same issue of GDA. One tank has high bio load and the other low bio load. I try to keep both tanks at 30/10/40 and .45 Fe as proxy (inert substrate). I've recently discovered a flaw in my true water volume for one tank and assume both tanks have been calculated incorrectly. Both tanks have GDA issues currently when before I had no issues with my oldest tank which took 2nd place in the AGA (if my water volume was wrong now, why now have GDA?). The old AGA tank had near flawless issues and I front loaded nutrients until recently. The new tank, I will refer to as the 100, developed GDA and I chalked it up to new tank issues. GDA was serious and I was able to get it under control with UV. I have removed UV and GDA, although less, has come back. So here's the issue. In my mind either too much light or too much NO3 causes GDA (recently spoke to Joe who mentioned very high K could cause it as well).

The issue now. Water change day is tomorrow morning so I decided to test NO3 and PO4. The AGA tank tested 35ppm NO3 and PO4 above 5ppm (APT test I take little faith in) and have GDA. The 100 tested 10-12 NO3 (I front loaded to 30ppm) and below 5ppm PO4 (front loaded to 8ppm) and getting GDA. So my thinking of GDA is obviously incorrect.

So what in the heck is the cause? Too much light? Too high of nutrients? Too low of nutrients? Let's ignore the dosing method differences and focus on one tank is lower tested, and the other higher tested. It has to be light right?
 
Too much light is always my go to when algae issues appear and I’ve ruled out maintenance issues, such as a missed water change.

however, it would help if you can provide the be,ow information for both tanks:

1. Size of tank in litres.
2. Age of the set - up.
3. Filtration + Media/Sponges.
4. Lighting and duration.
5. Substrate.
6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing.
7. Fertilizers used & Ratios.
8. Water change regime and type.
9. Plant list + When planted.
10. Drop Checker.
11. Inhabitants.
12. Full tank image & Surface image.
.
 
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@Unexpected The information you provide is in my opinion a bit too succint to understand what is happening in your tanks with GDA. However, you provided some critical information that could potentially be the trigger to your issue. As a general rule, GDA usually roots in the following conditions:
- too high fert levels for the available plant mass. In other words you may be over doing it when it comes to ferts. I see you are dosing even above EI highest levels particularly PO4 and K.
- higher temperatures than usual;
- poor or inadequate oxygenation levels.

In my exprience GDA always hit harder when summer came or when I did heavy trimmings but kept dosing the same amount of ferts. During cooler seasons GDA was kept to a minimum although my tank was hosting similar amounts of plants and my fert regime were basically the same.
 
@Unexpected sorry you're dealing with GDA. It has been a pain for me in the past. As @hypnogogia said, making sure my maintenance routine was solid and lower light levels helped me every time. It probably had to do with plant health as I usually was able to ramp light back up without bringing GDA back. I never thought about tank temperature as @Hanuman says probably because I live in Florida where it is always hot.

Few thoughts on the comments:
  • You probably want to link to this thread from your Journal thread so people can take a side skip to read about it in your timeline. The new Journal system we will be implementing shortly will help with this as Updates will be separate but also linked from your thread timeline assisting people to follow along with side discussions.
  • The new Journal system will also have a separate tab for tank specifications including maintenance routine, fertilizer percentages, plant and fauna list, etc. This will allow answers to what @hypnogogia is asking for and will allow you to update it easily when you make a change like you did with front loading.
Anyway, those above have asked great questions to get to the bottom of things.
 
In my tank, I don't grow any GDA in the display, and NO3 measures at 4 ppm, and PO4 at 2 ppm. However, recently in my duckweed index container, which is closest to the light, I killed all the snails because they were making a lot of waste and eating the floaters. With no snails in there, the container got covered in GDA in a matter of days. I reintroduced snails, and within hours the container was spotless. A few weeks later, GSA started growing in there. If only I could find a way to get rid of this one.
Here is a before and after video
 
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Art said:
never thought about tank temperature as @Hanuman says probably because I live in Florida where it is always hot.
Click to expand...
Because solubility of CO2 and O2 are inversely proportional to temperature, in hotter climates you need to pump more CO2 and increase oxygenation to make sure everything is fine. So if temperatures increase and CO2 is not adjusted accordingly plant growth will be impacted since there will be less CO2 available.

Temperature has a huge impact on tanks/plants health but it is not something that most people talk about because it is simply something more difficult to control, specially when you are in a hot country. Sure you have chillers but those can actually be quite expensive to buy AND to run so not everyone has one. So most of us just go along with ambient temperatures crossing fingers for it not to go too high. Truth is that we live most of the year under air conditionning but at night or durring prolonged holidays, when air-con is off, temp affects the tank.

In colder countries you can use a heater which is more practical and certainly cheaper than a chiller.
 
hypnogogia said:
Too much light is always my go to when algae issues appear and I’ve ruled out maintenance issues, such as a missed water change.

however, it would help if you can provide the be,ow information for both tanks:

1. Size of tank in litres.
2. Age of the set - up.
3. Filtration + Media/Sponges.
4. Lighting and duration.
5. Substrate.
6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing.
7. Fertilizers used & Ratios.
8. Water change regime and type.
9. Plant list + When planted.
10. Drop Checker.
11. Inhabitants.
12. Full tank image & Surface image.
.
Click to expand...
120 is 450L and the 100 is 303L
120 over a year old and the 100 is less than 6 moths old
120 is AIO with 200 micron socks, 30ppi sponge and Seachem Matrix/100 is sumped, 200 Micron socks, 20PPI sponge and lava rock
120 has WeekAqua P series/100 has Netlea AT6 Pro's. Both are on for 8 hours
Black Diamond Blasting sand in both
CO2 dosed in both, near 1.5 drop in the 120 and 1.3 drop in the 100
Dry ferts used and dosing both tanks to 30/10/40 .45Fe as proxy, Ca35ppm Mg5ppm (accumulation total)
120 gets 50% changes every 7th day and the 100 is getting about 80% more or less changes every 7th day
I will skip the plant list, too many but the 120 has been planted for over a year and the 100 has been planted for 3 months?
Drop checker on the 100, but only recently as I monitor pH
120 over stocked, 100 19 Harliquins, 12 Cory cats, 6 killifish/ both tanks have bladder snails

both tanks are around 76 degrees Fahrenheit. I am battling heat in my garage where I keep my RO storage. After water changes, the tanks can reach 80 degrees for about 12 hours over night.

Both tanks are near 10x turnover.

Here is the 120, recently abandoned from my attempt at the AGA 2024 and just shoved all my plant into it120.jpg
Here is the 100, I'm still working this tsnk for the AGA, please forgive the chaos and these are not the ligh settings, this was just a temporary mode to take this picture.IMG_0442.jpeg
 
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Hanuman said:
In my exprience GDA always hit harder when summer came or when I did heavy trimmings
Click to expand...
I am battling heat where I store my RO water. I will buy bags of ice to get the water cooler before the changes today. It's just weird as last year GDA was not an issue in similar heat but this year is hotter than normal.
 
Unexpected said:
both tanks are around 76 degrees Fahrenheit. I am battling heat in my garage where I keep my RO storage. After water changes, the tanks can reach 80 degrees for about 12 hours over night.
Click to expand...
Dam I wish I had those temps. Lowest I ever got my tank water to was 28C, else most of the time it's 29C/30C, peaking at 31C in summer time. The amount of CO2 I had to pump was outrageous.
Unexpected said:
I am battling heat where I store my RO water. I will buy bags of ice to get the water cooler before the changes today. It's just weird as last year GDA was not an issue in similar heat but this year is hotter than normal.
Click to expand...
How hot does the water go up to in your store room? But I think this might not be the issue if you say that your tanks reach 80F after water change. That's just 26C and I would say it's actually on the low side which is good.

Unexpected said:
The issue now. Water change day is tomorrow morning so I decided to test NO3 and PO4. The AGA tank tested 35ppm NO3 and PO4 above 5ppm (APT test I take little faith in) and have GDA. The 100 tested 10-12 NO3 (I front loaded to 30ppm) and below 5ppm PO4 (front loaded to 8ppm) and getting GDA. So my thinking of GDA is obviously incorrect.
Click to expand...
You can't conclude much just because the two tanks have tested differently in terms of ferts. It's probably a combination of high light, high nitrogenous waste / NO3, slightly hotter temps, etc, plus not 2 tanks are the same. Technically both tanks have more than enough NO3 so that could be it. I would lower NO3 slightly see how that goes.

I remember one time I decided to use urea and had a massive GDA outbrake. I might have gone a little overboard with it though so that explains it.
 
Hanuman said:
How hot does the water go up to in your store room?
Click to expand...
The garage can reach over 37 Celsius, and the water can reach 28 Celsius. I live in a high desert. Temps here can reach 40 during the day and drop overnight to 19.
Hanuman said:
I would lower NO3 slightly see how that goes.
Click to expand...
I use inert substrates, I will definitely lower it for the 120. Too many fish will cover me if I drop too low. However, the 100 testing at 10 or 12 by weeks end scares me a bit with the inert substrate.
 
Unexpected said:
I use inert substrates, I will definitely lower it for the 120. Too many fish will cover me if I drop too low. However, the 100 testing at 10 or 12 by weeks end scares me a bit with the inert substrate.
Click to expand...
Well you still have 10ppm of NO3 before water change so clearly it is still in excess of what the tank needs. I would reduce it slightly and feed the fish more to compensate if you worried.

Unexpected said:
The garage can reach over 37 Celsius, and the water can reach 28 Celsius. I live in a high desert. Temps here can reach 40 during the day and drop overnight to 19.
Click to expand...
These temps are wild and could be part of the reason for your GDA outbreak.
 
Hanuman said:
Well you still have 10ppm of NO3 before water change so clearly it is still in excess of what the tank needs. I would reduce it slightly and feed the fish more to compensate if you worried.


These temps are wild and could be part of the reason for your GDA outbreak.
Click to expand...
Done, I lowered significantly and it will be interesting to see where things test at next week.

Yes, the weather here is quite crazy. I can’t wait for fall and winter.
 
I was wondering where both tanks with the two tanks having different parameters yet having the GDA, and making water in the garage, that perhaps sanitizing the garage equipment between uses might help too…. A peroxide spray down on surfaces and through hose?
 
Pepere said:
I was wondering where both tanks with the two tanks having different parameters yet having the GDA, and making water in the garage, that perhaps sanitizing the garage equipment between uses might help too…. A peroxide spray down on surfaces and through hose?
Click to expand...
I would imagine the extreme heat would bake the equipment. But who knows. The only object that touches the aquarium is the hose nozzle.
 
Unexpected said:
120 is 450L and the 100 is 303L
120 over a year old and the 100 is less than 6 moths old
120 is AIO with 200 micron socks, 30ppi sponge and Seachem Matrix/100 is sumped, 200 Micron socks, 20PPI sponge and lava rock
120 has WeekAqua P series/100 has Netlea AT6 Pro's. Both are on for 8 hours
Black Diamond Blasting sand in both
CO2 dosed in both, near 1.5 drop in the 120 and 1.3 drop in the 100
Dry ferts used and dosing both tanks to 30/10/40 .45Fe as proxy, Ca35ppm Mg5ppm (accumulation total)
120 gets 50% changes every 7th day and the 100 is getting about 80% more or less changes every 7th day
I will skip the plant list, too many but the 120 has been planted for over a year and the 100 has been planted for 3 months?
Drop checker on the 100, but only recently as I monitor pH
120 over stocked, 100 19 Harliquins, 12 Cory cats, 6 killifish/ both tanks have bladder snails

both tanks are around 76 degrees Fahrenheit. I am battling heat in my garage where I keep my RO storage. After water changes, the tanks can reach 80 degrees for about 12 hours over night.

Both tanks are near 10x turnover.

Here is the 120, recently abandoned from my attempt at the AGA 2024 and just shoved all my plant into itView attachment 5505
Here is the 100, I'm still working this tsnk for the AGA, please forgive the chaos and these are not the ligh settings, this was just a temporary mode to take this picture.View attachment 5507
Click to expand...
Thank you. GDA is also associated with low nutrients and low CO2, which going by what you’re saying isn’t the case in your situation. I’ve also had outbreaks when I’ve missed water changes, but you’re doing regular and sizeable changes.

Perhaps try following the advice here to get rid of it:

 
Unexpected said:
The only object that touches the aquarium is the hose nozzle.
Click to expand...
I was thinking more pockets of water inside the hose that sits and festers.

Recently I noticed my clear hose on my gravel vac had a fair amount of growth. I mostly dont worry about it as it is only used to remove water from the tank, but it was unsightly so I filled it up with peroxide and let it bubble away and then flushed it..

Fwiw, I tend to think elevated tank temps after water change a more reasonable explanation, but thought I would throw it out as food for thought.. low effort and expense to run some through…
 
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