Help Tank reset - sterilize or not?

[Art]

I've taken some time to take stock of the current state of my tank. You can read more about it on my tank journal.

Build Thread - Art's tank(s)

I have found that the tank has algae in many places. It's an AIO tank so the filtration is in the back portion of the aquarium. All of my sponges are covered in algae. The return outlet, internal pump and internal UV sterilizer are covered in BBA . It clearly loves flow areas.

My Aquasoil has a lawn of BBA . I'm sure BBA spores are literally everywhere. There's also GDA on the glass.

So, I've decided on a full tank reset. The question I have and hope you will give me your opinion is:

In a situation like this, would you simply clean things as best as you can or would you somehow sterilize everything to try to get rid of the algae and its spores?​

If you suggest sterilizing, please tell me how to go about doing that.

Thanks for helping me with this reset.

Best,
Art

 

[Burr740]

Id pull all the plants and do a deep gravel vac. Scrape the glass and clean the equipment. Peroxide anything you cant manually get to. go back with the healthy parts of your plants or get new ones, toss everything thats in poor shape

Dont worry about bba spores, there everywhere anyway and always will be. Even if you started with all sterile tc in a brand new set up, soon as a leaf or two melts boom, in walks bba

The way to eradicate bba (and most all algae) is to take away whats feeding it. Which is degrading leaves from unhappy plants and/or dirty conditions (high doc, dirty filters, etc) A good bit of the latter comes as a by product of the former

So just clean it up good and go back with healthy plants. Then as long as you keep the plants happy and conditions clean, bba or any other algae wont be an issue

 

[Yugang]

Id pull all the plants and do a deep gravel vac. Scrape the glass and clean the equipment. Peroxide anything you cant manually get to. go back with the healthy parts of your plants or get new ones, toss everything thats in poor shape

Dont worry about bba spores, there everywhere anyway and always will be. Even if you started with all sterile tc in a brand new set up, soon as a leaf or two melts boom, in walks bba

The way to eradicate bba (and most all algae) is to take away whats feeding it. Which is degrading leaves from unhappy plants and/or dirty conditions (high doc, dirty filters, etc) A good bit of the latter comes as a by product of the former

So just clean it up good and go back with healthy plants. Then as long as you keep the plants happy and conditions clean, bba or any other algae wont be an issue

In addition to what you say here @Burr740 , which sounds perfectly reasonable, would you consider anything on

• Lighting (perhaps lower levels for a couple of weeks)?
• Water changes (perhaps more frequent for a few weeks)?
• Adding a couple of fast growing plants, to help stabilise the system?

I also don't like the idea of sterilising, as an immature microbiome probably only adds to the challenges for a restart and as you say it will be impossible to perfectly remove spores anyway.

 

[Burr740]

In addition to what you say here @Burr740 , which sounds perfectly reasonable, would you consider anything on

• Lighting (perhaps lower levels for a couple of weeks)?

For established tanks having algae problems, in general Im not a fan of reducing light. Because you want the plants growing as fat and fast as possible, esp when dealing with algae. Happy surging plants are the best weapon against algae so why do anything that would slow them down too? Makes no sense

Besides that, light has zero to do with bba , literally zero. Bba comes from unhappy plants leeching shit that bba feeds on, and the dirty conditions(water) that it creates. Flow doesnt cause it. We see it in high flow areas because those areas have more direct contact with the highest volume of "dirty water". Thats why it often shows up on filter outputs even if its nowhere else in the tank

Back to light, Art's case here its more like he's starting a brand new tank, and he probably wont have it packed full of plants in the beginning. Its certainly not a bad practice for a brand new tank, esp with sparse plant mass, to roll with lower light levels for a little while. That'll run everything at a slower pace while the system matures and plant mass increases.

I feel the same way about reducing ferts to somehow "combat" algae. The only time ferts need lowering is if they themselves are causing the plants to be unhappy, which is rarely the case especially with macros

• 
  
• Water changes (perhaps more frequent for a few weeks)?

Well, we do water changes to remove something. Unless he goes back with fresh soil there's really nothing to be removed in Art's case. Everything's clean and the tank is cycled (as long as he doesnt kill the cycle). So whats to remove?

But for an established tank dealing with a bba outbreak extra water changes are a good idea, because there's a lot of stuff that does need to be removed from the water, and a lot of maintenance required that's gonna generate more of it (substrate vac, aggressive pruining/uprooting, etc)

• Adding a couple of fast growing plants, to help stabilise the system?

Absolutely. The more fast growing stuff the better when kicking things off, esp where there's not a lot of plant mass to begin with

 

[Zeus.]

If you suggest sterilizing, please tell me how to go about doing that.

Sterilisation isn't possible by definition ie. make (something) free from bacteria or other living microorganisms

The term is used loosely by the public and commercial products eg, sterilise baby's feeding bottles.

However we can Disinfect -reducing the number of microorganisms on a surface or equipment to a level that is not harmful to health or the quality of perishable goods

So what I do disinfect tank, rocks and equipment etc.

Remove any solid material first.

Use Milton solution or weak bleach (thin/cheapo bleach)

Soak the tank, rocks and equipment in a solution of the disinfection agent.

give it time - the bleach/miltons is only active for short time relatively.

Good rinse a few times. then a solution of Prime on the stronger side than normal for treating our tap water for WC.

Rinse/flush again.

Good to go

 

[Hanuman]

I was in a somewat similar situation. I have a tank (60L) that is basically a retirement tank for my fish with very little plant mass: 2 bunche of anubias petite and some sad microsorum mini bunch. Soil was sand. Part of the tank was modified to be an UGF (powered by some airstones) which contained MasterSoil on a top later and pumice in the lower section. I also had a canister running on that tank. Anyways, needless to say that the tank was riddled with BBA because I was pretty lax on maintenance and it was overstocked (2 BN plecos, ~8-9 Ember tetras, 1 blue neon, 4 ottos, 5 amanos + snails). I just reset it a few days ago because the BN plecos decided to have a one night stand that ended up with over ~50 fry...
So basically I removed all plants and woods that was infected with BBA since I don't want to bother cleaning them. I cleaned the glass with a scraper, removed the UGF, bathed in bleach the spraybar and all the bits and pieces that had BBA . I didn't bother cleaning the canister. Added new wood, new substrate.
This short story is just to say if you don't want algae, it's quite simple. Grow loads of plants, keep them happy and keep your tank clean.

In a situation like this, would you simply clean things as best as you can or would you somehow sterilize everything to try to get rid of the algae and its spores?

In your case Art, because your have an AIO tank and everything seems infected to the bones I would put all the hardware parts that are seriously infected with BBA in a bleach or H. Perox bath. Get rid of the soil and infected plants. Use new soil if you want and salvage what you can from the plants. Use a scrapper on the glass to remove as much algae as you can but IMO there is no need to go nuclear and spray everything with bleach or H. perox hoping that you will eradicate all BBA . You can do it no problem, just don't fool yourself that you have eradicated it completly. That just won't happen in a non-sterile environment.

 

[Art]

@Burr740, @Yugang, @Zeus. and @Hanuman, THANK YOU! Don't look now but your years of experience are showing!

So I have 3 or 4 inches of AquaSoil that is probably about 2 years old now. It has substantial amounts of mulm and detritus and has a nice BBA lawn at the top. Also has the typical amount of crushed soil that you see at about this time period with AquaSoil. However, it is obviously well stocked with bacteria and microorganisms.

What's your thinking here?

• Deep vacuum like @Dennis Wong would recommend?
• Pull out and clean in buckets like @Marian Sterian would do? Or
• Replace the substrate with new substrate as @Hanuman is suggesting?

The downside of a new replacement would be going through the initial AquaSoil period which is a PITA. However, I do remove a significant amount of detritus that way.

I very much appreciate your thoughts.

Best regards,
Art

 

[Yugang]

Pull out and clean in buckets like @Marian Sterian would do? Or

This is what I do annually. Pull out all soil, rinse in dechlorinated water, back in the tank and replant.
I believe that this helps to keep the bacteria relatively unharmed, removes detritus and saves me the cash out and cycling of new substrate. I do regularly add a few handfuls new substrate to my tank, to compensate for the dust that I pull out when deep vacuuming. So far, it worked very well for me.

 

[Zeus.]

So I have 3 or 4 inches of AquaSoil that is probably about 2 years old now. It has substantial amounts of mulm and detritus and has a nice BBA lawn at the top. Also has the typical amount of crushed soil that you see at about this time period with AquaSoil. However, it is obviously well stocked with bacteria and microorganisms.

What's your thinking here?

AS (Aquasoil) is great stuff esp what new as it has capacity to buffer lots of stuff and release/capture nutrients. However over time the active sites which exchange ions and cations get blocked with ions and cations which have a stronger affinity to the clay granules.

If your using RO water and remineralizing it or have soft water this can take some time, however if your water is hard or very hard these active sites soon get blocked and become inactive. Once inactive reg WC and getting the correct water column dosing is more critical IMO/IME.

Can AS be recharges - well it theory it can, spoke with an expert about this. If the AS is removed and RO water passed over the AS for some time the Blocked sites should become unblocked. How long this would take I dunno.

So much depend on size of tank, what water your using and high or low tech IMO, small tank I would just replace it, easy way is stick it in a bucket with water and small filler running and leave it 6 weeks - Dark start in way, then stick in in tank leave livestock out a few days and good to go. The bigger the tank the bigger/longer the job.

So I would take the same way @Hanuman suggested, plus you could always go for an AS that doesn't have any nutrients in it - so little no need to cycle it.

I was thinking of using an inert substrate in a bigger tank, I did do a Journey 'Pot Scape', basically plants in pots in inert substrate to try out inert substrate - went well IMO

 

[Burr740]

When one of my tanks need a thorough substrate cleaning, something more than one pass with a gravel vac can do, what I do is remove everything but the substrate. Then with the tank near full of water take my hand and basically stir it all up. Stick my fingers down to the bottom glass and gently go back and forth across the whole bottom

Then immediately drain the water. I use a pump for draining which is a lot faster than siphon, and sucks out more of the suspended particles before they have time to settle back down. Then I fill it up again, stir the sub again and repeat. The sand tanks might need 2-3 cycles of this, soil tanks 4-5

Obviously this wont work if the aquasoil has broken down much and turned to mud. I just did a 20 gal last week with 3+ year old landen soil. The granules are still solid intact for the most part

Thats just what I do

The whole "carpet of bba " brings another factor to the equation. Depending on how thick a carpet we're talking about, Id probably drain the water and spray the top with peroxide. Let it sit for 30-45 minutes then start the stir and drain. But then youd have dead bba all through the sub, may or may not be a problem. One or two extra wc for the first week or two while all that disintegrates would probably take care of it, but maybe not

Still Id probably just do that if the granules are solid because I hate breaking in new aquasoil

But you cant go wrong by just replacing it either

 

[Hanuman]

• Deep vacuum like @Dennis Wong would recommend?
• Pull out and clean in buckets like @Marian Sterian would do? Or
• Replace the substrate with new substrate as @Hanuman is suggesting?

All viable options although if you have BBA covering the susbtrate you would at least need to discard the susbtrate layer with BBA . Not worth dealing with that.

At the end it really all depends what you are planning to do with that tank. Yes it's always possible to reuse old susbtrate and add some root tabs to give it some new life but in my experience, old susbtrate + root tabs does not match new susbtrate. Still it's possible and I have done it. Plus as @Zeus. mentionned, AS looses its buffering capacity with time. It's not technically a big deal but has its upsides when starting a new project or if you are planning to have specific types of fish/shrimps which might require lower PH .

The downside of a new replacement would be going through the initial AquaSoil period which is a PITA. However, I do remove a significant amount of detritus that way.

If you are in a rush, yes. It will take more time, but as we all know, this hobby is about patience. You can always keep a bit of your old deeper susbtrate (maybe something like ~ 10%/20%) when doing your reset and use it as a base layer before adding the new susbtrate. This will speed up your cycle. If you do not want to be changing water every other day during the initial phase then simply do a dark start without any plant and fish. Leave the tank to cycle until it's ready. Do a 100% water change when tank is cycled and you are ready to plant.

 

[Hanuman]

Depending on how thick a carpet we're talking about, Id probably drain the water and spray the top with peroxide. Let it sit for 30-45 minutes then start the stir and drain. But then youd have dead bba all through the sub, may or may not be a problem.

Something to keep in mind when spraying certain soils with H₂O₂ is that the soil will litteraly desintegrate or make it much more brittle and prone to breaking much easier. This happens with AS which are rich in organics.

 

[Burr740]

Something to keep in mind when spraying certain soils with H₂O₂ is that the soil will litteraly desintegrate or make it much more brittle and prone to breaking much easier. This happens with AS which are rich in organics.

Interesting, never heard that before. What about gluteraldehyde?

Could also just skim the top layer off and remove that part, suck it out with a siphon hose or rake it off with something

 

[Yugang]

Pro’s and con’s for discussion

Rinse and reuse

• Money saver
• (Partially) inert, reduced CEC and probably no nutrients anymore.
• May avoid the need for (full) cycling of tank (no ammonia release and maintain established micro organisms)
• No worry about ammonia spike, safe for livestock
• Besides good stuff (microbes) may still contain some bad stuff (spores, organics, etc)

New soil

• Nice original size granules
• Factory clean
• Nutrient buffering / CEC as manufactured
• Nutrients release.
• May need to be cycled, and beware of ammonia spike

The question is whether for a water column dosed tank (assume EI, or similar) we have practical evidence that new AquaSoil CEC and nutrients release improve the tank and plants? Could the theoretical claims (to some extent) be a myth and/or marketing argument? Where can the evidence be found, observed?

Is the evidence for new soil convincing enough and do the assumed/claimed advantages outweigh the disadvantages (price, cycling, ammonia spike)?

Again, these questions are for a water column dosed tank (EI or similar), and it is understood that ADA, lean dosing and similar will have a different set of answers.

 

[Hanuman]

When one of my tanks need a thorough substrate cleaning, something more than one pass with a gravel vac can do, what I do is remove everything but the substrate. Then with the tank near full of water take my hand and basically stir it all up. Stick my fingers down to the bottom glass and gently go back and forth across the whole bottom

Then immediately drain the water. I use a pump for draining which is a lot faster than siphon, and sucks out more of the suspended particles before they have time to settle back down. Then I fill it up again, stir the sub again and repeat. The sand tanks might need 2-3 cycles of this, soil tanks 4-5

Exactly what I did in my bigger tank. Works very well.

Interesting, never heard that before. What about gluteraldehyde?

I beleive it’s due to the pressure created by the constant bubbling inside the soil beads. The other drawback would be that you would be killing most if not all of the bacteria if you spray enough H. peroxyde on all the soil surface.
As for glut, I never tried that on the soil but I know glut would take longer to degrade. You would still be left with having to clean up after anyway since the BBA will die off slowly. This would take several days.

Could also just skim the top layer off and remove that part, suck it out with a siphon hose or rake it off with something

That’s what I suggested above and I think it’s probably a better option. I suppose he wouldn’t be removing much anyways.