Submerged Grown Bucephalandra

[techman81]

I love Buce. Have it in my first tank and now the 2nd which has just cycled. My issue is this: some of the varieties I'm getting are very suspectable to melt early on and especially in this 2nd tank that I planted when ammonia was still relatively high. A couple varieties melted in the first tank even after a dark start, and took a long time to recover. Are there any good sources of submerged grown Buce? Thinking melt might be much less of an issue. Maybe there are other tips to limit the likelihood of melt.

 

[HarryL]

I'm not sure what your setups are but CO2 seems to help with the melting issue early on.

I've only ever grown them in CO2 injected tanks, 2 species(kedagang red and alamanda blue) transitioned from emersed to submerged. Kedagang red was grown in a newly setup tank that was not cycled and used soil substrate, had some melting, I don't recall how bad it was, but probably no more than a 1/3 of the leaves melted. Alamanda blue was grown in a tank that had a dark start, less melting compared to the kedagang red, but still did. Then I recently planted some tissue cultured brownie in the same tank that the kedagang is in(8 months old tank), it's been 3 weeks so far and haven't seen any melting yet.

All other buce species I had was from other hobbyist from their submerged tanks and all had zero melting issues.

 

[gnatster]

After a dark start, I planted the following. The order was for one each, obtained from the same source.

Kedagang Red Vitro Culture - Flowered, has a bit of brown algae on the leaves.
Petite Galaxy - Doing fine, new leaves showing
Phantom Mini - Doing fine, new leaves showing
Purple Mini - Doing fine, new leaves showing, new roots visible
Super Mini Ghost Vitro Culture - The ones planted at the initial planting are doing fine, lost the later planting

After splitting some of the larger ones, I thought I had too many. Hastily made an emersed setup for the extra Super Mini Ghost and Kedagang Red.

All of the Buce varieties originally planted are doing mostly fine. It's been 27 days, and some brown algae are on some of the Buce, not all. At 3 weeks in, I planted some of the emersed Buce that was showing growth signs. They melted to nothing in 2 days, just ugly white superglue chunks on black rock remain. Right in the front, too.

CO2, High Light, PPS ala GLA instructions.

 

[techman81]

I'm not sure what your setups are but CO2 seems to help with the melting issue early on.

Yep, plenty of CO2. No fauna in this tank yet so not worried about pushing it too much. The 2 varieties with the worst melt in this new tank are Brownie Phantom and Kedagang Mini Round

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

planted when ammonia was still relatively high.

@Dennis Wong makes a point to mention this in his Buce article, it’s not a good time to try to grow it or transition it. But nonetheless, people claim to grow it in those conditions regardless. It’s a frustrating plant for sure for some, to include myself. I purchased a submerged chunk from someone on Etsy a while back and it’s the ONLY buce Ive successfully grown. I’d recommend looking there for submerged growth. Buceplant does have some good healthy Buce, but depends on what you get at times, and I’d for sure purchase a “clump” everytime. You will be severely disappointed with “single” plants with 3-5 leaves (if that).

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

Are there any good sources of submerged grown Buce?

Reddit.com/r/aquaswap is where I've received my best submerged buce, but in general purchasing from fellow hobbyists is the best source for submerged plants like buce, imo!

 

[techman81]

Buceplant does have some good healthy Buce, but depends on what you get at times, and I’d for sure purchase a “clump” everytime. You will be severely disappointed with “single” plants with 3-5 leaves (if that).

Yeah, all the Buce I've purchased has come from Buceplant and I don't blame them for the melt. The emersed grown and TC from them has arrived healthy. Of course, I've started to farm some of what I purchased for future needs but I also want to try other varieties.

 

[techman81]

Reddit.com/r/aquaswap is where I've received my best submerged buce, but in general purchasing from fellow hobbyists is the best source for submerged plants like buce, imo!

I've checked out aquaswap but have been hesitant to pull the trigger on anything. Unfortunately, the Kansas City area seems to be a black hole for more interesting flora. I did just place a plant order with @Burr740. No Buce though.

 

[gnatster]

Yeah, all the Buce I've purchased has come from Buceplant and I don't blame them for the melt. The emersed grown and TC from them has arrived healthy. Of course, I've started to farm some of what I purchased for future needs but I also want to try other varieties.

Submerged or emersed farm?

 

[techman81]

Submerged or emersed farm?

Submerged. Cheap 40 gallon breeder tank.

 

[Dennis Wong]

I love Buce. Have it in my first tank and now the 2nd which has just cycled. My issue is this: some of the varieties I'm getting are very suspectable to melt early on and especially in this 2nd tank that I planted when ammonia was still relatively high. A couple varieties melted in the first tank even after a dark start, and took a long time to recover. Are there any good sources of submerged grown Buce? Thinking melt might be much less of an issue. Maybe there are other tips to limit the likelihood of melt.

I think having a biologically matured tank makes a huge difference. And a biologically matured tank is not just one that is cycled/dark cycled. Ammonia cycling is easy to complete - but I don't think that that alone makes the tank biologically matured (enough) so to say. I think a better gauge for tank maturity actually (where planted tanks are concerned), is if the tank has grown in for some time and has reached a state of being relatively algae free. If you plant buceps at this stage they tend to transition more smoothly. I think submerged or emersed grown doesn't make a huge difference as long as the Buce samples are healthy - the healthier/robust versions of either one will out perform the weaker/stunted versions of either one.

For example, a Bucep may have been grown submerged but say under overly lean nutrient conditions. This can result in a plant that looks good in form but is actually delicate because of its lack of stored internal energy. The same goes for emersed farmed samples that have been transported for too long. It can be hard to tell from looks, so buying from a regular know source can make a big difference. You can tell overly lean conditions if the Buceps are much smaller sized than expected for that particular varietal. Sometimes there are hints in deteriorating older growth or lack of older growth present in samples that are supposed to be grown for a long time. Samples that take very long (say 3 weeks?) to adapt to current tank conditions usually indicate stunting in previous growth cycle.

Transitioning wise, slightly cooler temps, high CO2, with more moderate lighting (to slow adaptation changes) is a better environment for handling delicate specimens or "at risk" samples. However, as with almost every other plant, eventually ramping to high light high ferts high CO2 does make them propagate faster if you want more plants.


Mandatory BG2011 pic.


Bucep among stems - on one hand, I find fast growing stem plants do create algae resistant environments that is good for buceps. On the other hand, they shadow and crowd out slower growing species. Already the Bucep bunches on the right are shadowed by the stems - they still grow well in shade though, just not too deep shade.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

You can tell overly lean conditions if the Buceps are much smaller sized than expected for that particular varietal.

I experienced this exactly for the first time recently. Not sure on my exact varietal but it had some nice fat leaves when growing under ideal conditions. I didn’t do maintence regularly for a couple months and even stopped dosing the tank effectively but co2 and lights never changed. What I got was tiny new leaves that looked nothing like the typical healthy growth I was used to seeing, almost as if it was a different species of buce.

 

[techman81]

Great info. Thanks @Dennis Wong .

 

[HarryL]

Yep, plenty of CO2. No fauna in this tank yet so not worried about pushing it too much. The 2 varieties with the worst melt in this new tank are Brownie Phantom and Kedagang Mini Round

That brownie phantom looks a lot like the brownie ghost mini I got(might be the same thing who knows), but I received it as submerged so no melting experienced