Sick Discus (photo and vid included)

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I know this is more of a planted tank forum, but maybe someone can help out.

120 gallon tank, lightly planted
6 x 4" discus
2 x weekly 30% water changes
84 degrees

0 ammonia
0 nitrite
5 - 10 nitrate


The effected fish was acting completely normal for days prior to the state they are in now, eating any and all foods, sparing with tankmates, swimming with the group etc. Overnight the fish went from being one of the more dominant fish in the tank, to sitting at the surface, fins clamped down, and dark in color, no interest in food. The fish that was bought from the same tank at the same time is acting completely normal.

I immediately performed a 60% water change.
The fish responded slightly, however it hung out alone in the corner, no interest in food.
50% water change every day for 3 days now, with slight improvements in behavior and less fin clamping, however no interest in food, and sits in the back corner.
Currently there is a small sore on the side of the discus that just appeared today, they have slight excess slime on the dorsal fin, and is breathing a little harder than it has been over the last few days. Color is a less dark than when they first showed symptoms.

All 5 other discus are acting completely normal and eating well.

Any ideas? I'll post a picture and a video (if it will work) - I turned the lights on just to grab the photo / video so don't mind all the other discus huddled up, they are typically out swimming / acting normal.

 

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I believe some infections might match this specific pattern you describe:
1. losing energy/apetite
2. getting obvious sores

there's a few protozoan critters that commonly attack both gills and skin and can lead to this type of progression.
I don't have experience with treating them unfortunately, sorry. It will be harder with discus I think because you can't use salt which is a miracle-cure for almost everything.
Your first move should be isolation in a quarantine tank at this point. Prevents infecting the others if there is a spreadable infection, and allows you to dose medicines without disrupting the bio filter in the display tank.
If it was my fish, my playbook says to use the methylene blue I have as a 30 minute dip, then return the fish to a hospital/quarantine tank for observation, retreat if needed.
 
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I wish I knew more about fish, or discus specifically. All I can say is that I feel for you and hope he turns the corner.

As a general fish thing (and this may be the wrong approach for Discus), but I would get him into a qt tank ASAP. If it's bacterial, fungal, or parasitic, you risk infecting the whole tank.

From there I would do a round of antifungal and anti parasitic treatments to see if they helped. Anti-biotics are more dangerous, and should only be used if the others don't make it any better.
 
I wish I knew more about fish, or discus specifically. All I can say is that I feel for you and hope he turns the corner.

As a general fish thing (and this may be the wrong approach for Discus), but I would get him into a qt tank ASAP. If it's bacterial, fungal, or parasitic, you risk infecting the whole tank.

From there I would do a round of antifungal and anti parasitic treatments to see if they helped. Anti-biotics are more dangerous, and should only be used if the others don't make it any better.
Just to add, Microbe Lift- Herbtana (Edit: or Artemiss) should be completely safe. I've used it with varying success over the years. It smells like straight up tea tree oil.

 
I wish I knew more about fish, or discus specifically. All I can say is that I feel for you and hope he turns the corner.

As a general fish thing (and this may be the wrong approach for Discus), but I would get him into a qt tank ASAP. If it's bacterial, fungal, or parasitic, you risk infecting the whole tank.

From there I would do a round of antifungal and anti parasitic treatments to see if they helped. Anti-biotics are more dangerous, and should only be used if the others don't make it any better.
I don't disagree with you, however everything I have read has been conflicting... "Move the fish into quarentine, but also "if there is a discus showing symptoms, then the entire tank needs treated" so essentially the display tank becomes the treating tank...

The problem too is that the only symptoms are dark coloration, clamped fins and staying away from the others, apart from not eating.

No bloat, no growths / sores (apart from the isolated spot in the photo / video) no stringy or white feces, somewhat normal breathing, no gasping, no scratching / flashing, no other fish are acting out of the norm and the fish is slowly responding to daily water changes...

Last note - essentially every fish medication is illegal in Canada, I have a small amount of Metronidazole and Praziquantel, enough for barely 1 treatment (don't tell the donut eaters lol! )
 
I don't disagree with you, however everything I have read has been conflicting... "Move the fish into quarentine, but also "if there is a discus showing symptoms, then the entire tank needs treated" so essentially the display tank becomes the treating tank...

The problem too is that the only symptoms are dark coloration, clamped fins and staying away from the others, apart from not eating.

No bloat, no growths / sores (apart from the isolated spot in the photo / video) no stringy or white feces, somewhat normal breathing, no gasping, no scratching / flashing, no other fish are acting out of the norm and the fish is slowly responding to daily water changes...

Last note - essentially every fish medication is illegal in Canada, I have a small amount of Metronidazole and Praziquantel, enough for barely 1 treatment (don't tell the donut eaters lol! )
If you want something you can't get your hands on, let me know. I'll buy it and ship it to you in a shampoo bottle or something lmao.

Edit: Especially the Microbe Lift. There's no actual medications in it; only herbal supplements. That should be fine.
 
Have you tried dosing Prime? In the off chance that there's some sort of heavy metal or something in there, it certainly couldn't hurt. I know you would see something in all of the fish, but if this one was already weak for some reason, it could be something systemic.
 
Have you tried dosing Prime? In the off chance that there's some sort of heavy metal or something in there, it certainly couldn't hurt. I know you would see something in all of the fish, but if this one was already weak for some reason, it could be something systemic.

This is another thought I had.

I am using well water, typically this has never been an issue for the 2 years I've lived here.

I was keeping ferts a little higher than optimal - NO3 probably was creeping into the 20-30 range before a water change, and I was daily dosing burr's mix of micro's at a 2/3 rate.

Once I started the daily 50% changes, I stopped dosing all ferts and have kept the lights off to keep everyone calm (and keep algae at bay while the tank isn't receiving fertilizers)

I wonder if this fish just wasn't liking the added ferts... and things built up in the tank enough to cause ill effects.


I do dose Prime (well, the dry form Safe) every water change to be safe.
 
"if there is a discus showing symptoms, then the entire tank needs treated"
Dubious advice, **unless we're talking about a very gentle medication. I think its only a good idea if you know precisely that it was a specific type of infection such as fast-moving bacteria. Also, Netting and moving fish always adds stress to their life, which can lower disease immunity. You don't want to overreact and make things worse. Nor do you want to ignore the same signs in the other fish if they do start to present.

++clamped fins is another symptom of protozoan infections
 
Dubious advice, **unless we're talking about a very gentle medication. I think its only a good idea if you know precisely that it was a specific type of infection such as fast-moving bacteria. Also, Netting and moving fish always adds stress to their life, which can lower disease immunity. You don't want to overreact and make things worse. Nor do you want to ignore the same signs in the other fish if they do start to present.

++clamped fins is another symptom of protozoan infections

Agreed, this is why I have yet to remove the fish and place them in quarantine.

What other symptoms are associated with protozoan infections?
 
I believe some infections might match this specific pattern you describe:
1. losing energy/apetite
2. getting obvious sores

there's a few protozoan critters that commonly attack both gills and skin and can lead to this type of progression.
I don't have experience with treating them unfortunately, sorry. It will be harder with discus I think because you can't use salt which is a miracle-cure for almost everything.
Your first move should be isolation in a quarantine tank at this point. Prevents infecting the others if there is a spreadable infection, and allows you to dose medicines without disrupting the bio filter in the display tank.
If it was my fish, my playbook says to use the methylene blue I have as a 30 minute dip, then return the fish to a hospital/quarantine tank for observation, retreat if needed.


Whoops, just noticed this post now.

I believe you can in fact use salt with discus - everything I have been reading anyway says you can, and it will increase their slime coat. High temps also will help certain infections.

I'm honestly torn on creating more stress for the fish my moving it to quarantine, or leaving it be and seeing how things progress with large water changes.
 
I don't know much about Discus but am sorry to hear this and I feel your pain.

My own philosophy is to remove a sick fish as soon as possible. I am always worried about infecting the rest of the herd, and they are hard to find and replace. But honestly that's just my method and I can't say what is best for you or anyone else. Treating sick fish is tricky.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
I don't know much about Discus but am sorry to hear this and I feel your pain.

My own philosophy is to remove a sick fish as soon as possible. I am always worried about infecting the rest of the herd, and they are hard to find and replace. But honestly that's just my method and I can't say what is best for you or anyone else. Treating sick fish is tricky.

Good luck and keep us posted.


Thanks Gregg.

It's a toss up, because a lot of the time if it turn out to be some sort of parasite or more serious bacteria / fungus the entire tank is likely needing treating as spores / live cycles of the organism will live in the water, and infect all the fish over a few weeks, no one truly knows the best course of action.

Removing a weak fish is sometimes harder on it that leaving it in the tank, and going on 5 days now I am seeing slight improvements in this particular fish, with no symptoms in any of the other 5. So I'm still not sure which method to chase.


A discus keeper on another forum thinks it could be Discus Pimples (relatively common) caused by a particular fish not enjoying the water parameters / deteriorating water parameters. This usually clears itself over a few weeks if the parameters are being kept in check more proactively - possibly what I am experiencing.

I have a hospital tank on the ready, I turned the lights on just now, will wait a little for the fish to "wake up" offer some food and assess once more.
 
8 hours into the hospital tank with no change.

Turned up the temp to 88 degrees, 1 tbs salt / 10 gallons water. Fish is still not interested in food. They aren't getting any worse however, fingers crossed large water changes and less stress will allow for a good recovery.
 
8 hours into the hospital tank with no change.

Turned up the temp to 88 degrees, 1 tbs salt / 10 gallons water. Fish is still not interested in food. They aren't getting any worse however, fingers crossed large water changes and less stress will allow for a good recovery.
Thats a really great start, do you know if they can tolerate more salt? I think I treat at 2-4x that concentration for my SA cichlids. it's definitely a good start though.
 
Thats a really great start, do you know if they can tolerate more salt? I think I treat at 2-4x that concentration for my SA cichlids. it's definitely a good start though.


That was a rate recommended by an experienced discus keeper I was talking too.

Unfortunately it has developed into a bad swim bladder infection. I do not think the fish is going to make it.

It cannot right itself, cannot eat, and is severely bloated on the one side.

I have done an Epsom Salt treatment with no luck.
 
Last ditch effort - I dosed the tank with Prazi and Metro,

I've accepted the fish as good as gone, so with any luck at all these meds will help. I would be astonished if this fish bounces back, but it's been a trooper this whole time, so maybe just maybe they are strong enough to bounce back.
 
I know it's a little late for this fish, but add this to your playbook for future sick fish: raising the temp can acclerate some bacterial infections. My play would be not raise temp until there is a positive ID on the cause.

Also I would remove Epsom Salt from the equation, there's no solid evidence that it's going to help a generically sick fish, only a lot internet hearsay that people like to repeat. I've tried using it for some of the kind of ailments it is recommended for, both as a dip and added to food, and never once saw results.
 
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I know it's a little late for this fish, but add this to your playbook for future sick fish: raising the temp can acclerate some bacterial infections. My play would be not raise temp until there is a positive ID on the cause.

Also I would remove Epsom Salt from the equation, there's no solid evidence that it's going to help a generically sick fish, only a lot internet hearsay that people like to repeat. I've tried using it for some of the kind of ailments it is recommended for, both as a dip and added to food, and never once saw results.

Conflicting info around every corner, very frustrating indeed.

I only did the MgSO4 treatment after ID'ing it as a swim bladder issue and following advice from a fairly qualified website. - Aimed at clearing digestive tract of any back-up's that could be irritating the swim bladder thus causing an infection.

Essentially every piece of literature I've read and all the aquarists with discus experience I've talked to recommend higher temperature for discus that are ill, even 90+ degrees was recommended.

Frustrating that the advice spread across the internet was essentially: Remove fish, raise temp, MgSO4 treatment, salt treatment, Metro / Prazi treatment if things are bad, massive water changes every day.


Sick fish, nothing fun about it.
 
Sick fish, nothing fun about it.
No question about that. IME most times when a fish shows symptoms like you described the odds are slim that you can save it. And trying to pinpoint the cause and possible remedy is almost impossible.

My guess is that there are myriads of things in the tank that could affect fish but most are strong enough to combat it. Some succumb and when they do it's usually not good.

And I do feel your pain. I have had some Bows for over a decade, and when you lose those it's even worse. You develop a connection when you have been caring for observing a fish for that length of time.
 
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