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Question of the Day Should a newbie use commercial fertilizer or DIY?
- Thread starter Art
- Start date
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OmidNiav
Active Member
I'm a big fan of DIY but believe that using custom ferts requires more knowledge. At the same time, being able to mix ferts and dose appropriately has been made easy by the use of online calculators.
As with any other field, extensive research and learning in the beginning goes a long way and prevents heartbreak!
Omid
As with any other field, extensive research and learning in the beginning goes a long way and prevents heartbreak!
Omid
- Thread starter
- #3
I completely agree on research preventing heartbreak. However, I think the barriers to entry to start are better if you make things simple for the newcomers.
“Here, this is an All In One fertilizer that has everything you need. Add X amount to your aquarium after your weekly water change.” This is so much easier than going into the details of calculators and powders.
Once successful to start, then the aquarist will progress to a more custom mix with more confidence.
“Here, this is an All In One fertilizer that has everything you need. Add X amount to your aquarium after your weekly water change.” This is so much easier than going into the details of calculators and powders.
Once successful to start, then the aquarist will progress to a more custom mix with more confidence.
OmidNiav
Active Member
I agree. "Fundamentals" are important to learn in the beginning but getting restricted kills the desire. I'm a very by-the-book person but things are not black and white.
ayman.roshdy
Active Member
In Egypt there are local stores who create their own DIY ferts and sell them commercially, they are cheap vs the brand names so I don't bother to create my own since they are doing this for me for a reasonable price
BigWave
Active Member
New people should stick to commercial fertilizers period. It takes the error out of dosing. There is so much to learn and fertz is one of the hardest to grasp.
That said commercial brands need to be in stores. Seachem Flourish doesn't cut it as an all round AKA All in one Fertilizer stop marketing it as such.
There needs to be quite a bit of learning for all these LFS's and name brand pet stores.
That said commercial brands need to be in stores. Seachem Flourish doesn't cut it as an all round AKA All in one Fertilizer stop marketing it as such.
There needs to be quite a bit of learning for all these LFS's and name brand pet stores.
MrMuggles
Community Member
Both options are not great for newcomers. With all-in-one products, the end user is left wondering "why?" when it doesn't give the desired results (it often does not) and there's not a lot you can do apart from begin all the same research you would need to understand mixing your own.
You also have the confusion of different forms of Nitrate and the Easy Green instructions (for example) telling people to target some PPM level without mentioning that their source of N is not visible to tests.
Though I was only trying to grow "easy" plants, both Easy Green and the Seachem products proved ineffective and overpriced for me. As a recent newcomer to the hobby I had nothing but algae & failing plants until I moved away from commercial bottled fertilizers. As soon as I started using my own mixture from dry weighed salts everything turned around completely.
You also have the confusion of different forms of Nitrate and the Easy Green instructions (for example) telling people to target some PPM level without mentioning that their source of N is not visible to tests.
Though I was only trying to grow "easy" plants, both Easy Green and the Seachem products proved ineffective and overpriced for me. As a recent newcomer to the hobby I had nothing but algae & failing plants until I moved away from commercial bottled fertilizers. As soon as I started using my own mixture from dry weighed salts everything turned around completely.
Last edited:
The biggest challenge I had getting back into it after a 10+ year reef keeping break is that it's a little confusing.
While there are some beginner's guides, they don't really go into detail on why you're dosing a particular fert....it's just dose 1/2tsp of this, 3/4 tsp of that, etc.
While some folks are perfectly content with just following a recipe and not understanding the "why" behind it, that's not me.
The biggest mistake I made was following a recipe that overdosed everything. I started off with a solution that was too strong, without knowing that it was too strong I knew something wasn't right, so I went to dry ferts....using the exact same level of dosing
When the tank hit a wall, and I began investigating and asking questions I figured out that the recipe I was using was way too strong, mainly because I took it off the NilocG website and it was a range for 90-125 gallon tanks or something similar. I was getting different results from the Rotala Butterfly calculator and just got confused and irritated so I spent an evening doing research until I settled on a different amount of ferts.
All of that could have been avoided if there was a guide of some sorts that explained what levels you should strive to achieve, what each component does for the plants, why they're important, and what to look for when testing to make sure you're at optimal levels. This information is pretty scattered currently. But if something like that existed, I'd have avoided many issues.
While there are some beginner's guides, they don't really go into detail on why you're dosing a particular fert....it's just dose 1/2tsp of this, 3/4 tsp of that, etc.
While some folks are perfectly content with just following a recipe and not understanding the "why" behind it, that's not me.
The biggest mistake I made was following a recipe that overdosed everything. I started off with a solution that was too strong, without knowing that it was too strong I knew something wasn't right, so I went to dry ferts....using the exact same level of dosing
When the tank hit a wall, and I began investigating and asking questions I figured out that the recipe I was using was way too strong, mainly because I took it off the NilocG website and it was a range for 90-125 gallon tanks or something similar. I was getting different results from the Rotala Butterfly calculator and just got confused and irritated so I spent an evening doing research until I settled on a different amount of ferts.
All of that could have been avoided if there was a guide of some sorts that explained what levels you should strive to achieve, what each component does for the plants, why they're important, and what to look for when testing to make sure you're at optimal levels. This information is pretty scattered currently. But if something like that existed, I'd have avoided many issues.
- Thread starter
- #9
I know it's not popular in the USA because of the import costs, Aqua Design Amano has the best startup guide for a beginner, IMO. Beyond the link, they have other guides that do present a "formula" for newbies. I tried there, then booklet, back in the late 1990s with a 60p. Worked like a charm.
The downside is you need to use 100% their products. It makes sense as they want to sell their products but, to their defense, they do make quality products.
While the ADA formula isn't the only way to become a successful, long-term hobbyists, it does represent a reproducible path for a newbie. Once hooked (or bitten by the bug), the now happy newbie can come to forums like ScapeCrunch and learn from the community. They can learn why their formula worked and then decide if they want to roll their own or go in another direction.
The value is in getting a newbie to be successful without tons of research that may turn some people off.
Of course, if you have a profit motive or want the hobby to grow, the above makes sense. If you don't have a profit motive or you're not too concerned about the growth of the hobby, you may think that research IS part of the hobby and if you're not willing to do it, then this is the wrong hobby for you. I hear this all the time and I completely understand. If you're not willing to do the water changes, then maybe this hobby isn't for you.
Thoughts?
The downside is you need to use 100% their products. It makes sense as they want to sell their products but, to their defense, they do make quality products.
While the ADA formula isn't the only way to become a successful, long-term hobbyists, it does represent a reproducible path for a newbie. Once hooked (or bitten by the bug), the now happy newbie can come to forums like ScapeCrunch and learn from the community. They can learn why their formula worked and then decide if they want to roll their own or go in another direction.
The value is in getting a newbie to be successful without tons of research that may turn some people off.
Of course, if you have a profit motive or want the hobby to grow, the above makes sense. If you don't have a profit motive or you're not too concerned about the growth of the hobby, you may think that research IS part of the hobby and if you're not willing to do it, then this is the wrong hobby for you. I hear this all the time and I completely understand. If you're not willing to do the water changes, then maybe this hobby isn't for you.
Thoughts?
@Art
Your ADA comments brings me back to my thoughts about a newbie using co2. There are certain things in this hobby that IF directions are followed it makes it kinda "idiot proof", but that IF is a biggie.
If your using active soil and co2, your chances of success with plants, algae, even fish increases expotentialy IMO. The problem is that many won't follow the instructions and will fail since not doing the initial water changes and/or not getting the co2 right will create major issues not only for plants but for the fish as well. As the algae and fish death increase the likelihood of them staying in the hobby decreases, so for some the simple approach might be better. If AS and co2 were plug/play and not expensive now you have the best of both worlds and without a doubt would be the way to go.
Your ADA comments brings me back to my thoughts about a newbie using co2. There are certain things in this hobby that IF directions are followed it makes it kinda "idiot proof", but that IF is a biggie.
If your using active soil and co2, your chances of success with plants, algae, even fish increases expotentialy IMO. The problem is that many won't follow the instructions and will fail since not doing the initial water changes and/or not getting the co2 right will create major issues not only for plants but for the fish as well. As the algae and fish death increase the likelihood of them staying in the hobby decreases, so for some the simple approach might be better. If AS and co2 were plug/play and not expensive now you have the best of both worlds and without a doubt would be the way to go.
BigWave
Active Member
Everyone in this hobby needs to learn 1st and foremost how to dose. The All in one system takes the error out of it and plain works in most cases. We tend to see the "Well im dosing this all in one but still getting said algae" etc. This is mostly due to each and every tank being different and consuming different nutrients acordingly.
This is exactly why most of the name brand companys have seperate fertilizers Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium. Not too many of us even the experienced dose all nutrients seperately. It takes quite a bit of knolodge and watching the plants to get it right.
This is exactly why most of the name brand companys have seperate fertilizers Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium. Not too many of us even the experienced dose all nutrients seperately. It takes quite a bit of knolodge and watching the plants to get it right.
- Thread starter
- #12
I think it's healthy, kinda light plunging into an ice bath after a hard workout, to occasionally scroll through some of the questions and pictures in the aquarium beginner groups on Facebook. It gives you a new level of understanding and perspective on a newcomer to the hobby.
If your task was to motivate these beginners to invest themselves into improving their "now planted" aquarium, I guarantee you would not be very successful if you tell them they have to DIY the fertilizers. IMHO, most have come to this from the fish-only freshwater side and their view of planted aquariums is very limited. They want it to look great, but they want it to be easy and recipe-based.
One thing I thought about for ScapeCrunch is to create a "beginner's guide" to setting up their first planted aquarium. Making it a collaborative project with the members of ScapeCrunch, I think it would be valuable to those starting out. The problem I think we would have, though, is our own biases.
For most of us, DIY fertilizer and CO2 are easy, now. It's a no-brainer. It would be tough for us to put ourselves in the shoes of absolute beginners and develop an easy-to-follow recipe with a high-likelihood of success. I think, anyway.
If your task was to motivate these beginners to invest themselves into improving their "now planted" aquarium, I guarantee you would not be very successful if you tell them they have to DIY the fertilizers. IMHO, most have come to this from the fish-only freshwater side and their view of planted aquariums is very limited. They want it to look great, but they want it to be easy and recipe-based.
One thing I thought about for ScapeCrunch is to create a "beginner's guide" to setting up their first planted aquarium. Making it a collaborative project with the members of ScapeCrunch, I think it would be valuable to those starting out. The problem I think we would have, though, is our own biases.
For most of us, DIY fertilizer and CO2 are easy, now. It's a no-brainer. It would be tough for us to put ourselves in the shoes of absolute beginners and develop an easy-to-follow recipe with a high-likelihood of success. I think, anyway.
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