Proper way to dark start AquaSoil?

[Art]

I have a couple of bags of Amazonia on the way. It's been a while and want to take what I've learned from using it in the past and avoid some of the "issues" starting up with AquaSoil. Today, it seems that the dark start method meets this objective.

Here's my plan. Please give me your honest opinions if it's solid or off base.

I plan on starting the tank with the filtration and AquaSoil only. No plants or fish. I will inoculate with starter bacteria (just my personal preference) and keep the aquarium with no light (dark). It will not be completely dark as room daylight will be there. I considered blacking it out using cardboard but I don't think it's necessary.

I will monitor ammonia, nitrite to work through the cycle. I'm not very concerned about this. I don't plan on doing water changes. Just letting the ammonia leakage do its thing.

The real test is that I will be adding PO4 and testing it throughout the dark start period. My goal is to allow it to uptake as much PO4 as it wants so that it doesn't mess with my PO4 later when I have plants.

If all goes well, I will a) avoid the daily water changes when I ultimately put plants in and, b) avoid the PO4 sink effect that this soil seems to have.

What do you think? Am I making too much of the issues and overdoing the remedy? Or, will I save myself some headaches down the line?

Thanks,

Art

 

[BigWave]

@Art, I have tried both ways normal use of Amazonia and the Dark Start. Honestly havnt seen different results. Only thing with the dark start is it takes up time. As in a few weeks or four of cycling the tank this way vs just throwing plants in at the very beginning. Do note the entire ADA approach and concept of using the Amazonia is daily water changes for the 1st few weeks, then 3x week then 1x week. Don't know the numbers off the top of my head but its somewhere around 5-10ppm NH4 in the water coloum. The general concensis is adding 3ppm NH4 (Ammonia) daily to start the cycle. In all my years, cycling a tank just for plants doesnt do much at all as far as the plants are concerned / fish yes absolutely. Now with delicate plants and even Tissue Culture plants that ammonia can and will burn.

From the man himself, Dennis Wong.

Should I bother cycling a planted tank before planting?

Do I need to cycle an aquasoil planted tank? Can I do fish-less cycling with plants? How do I cycle a tank with starter bacteria cultures like quickstart? This article discusses how to cycle an aquasoil planted tank, "old" method vs fish-less cycling, using starter bacteria and how to know if...

www.2hraquarist.com

Analysis of the ADA nutrient dosing approach

This link is really good at describing the entire phosphorus process and why.

Soil Management

I love this site and all his content. Such good info here.

ADA Amazonia II Substrate Review - Spec-Tanks

ADA Amazonia II has proven to be an excellent substrate for our Planted Nano Aquarium. I discuss what I liked as well as other ADA soils.

spec-tanks.com

From ADA Japan.

NATURE AQUARIUM NOTES #1 Something You Should Know about the Character of Amazonia | ADA - AQUA JOURNAL

ADA designs and develops products of aquarium, lighting and CO2 supply system to propose Nature Aquarium where tropical fish swimming in densely grown aquatic plants.

www.adana.co.jp

Misc.

Cycling Aquasoil Amazonia: Complete Guide for Shrimp Tank Setup

Master cycling Aquasoil Amazonia in shrimp tanks with our guide. Discover key steps and tips for a stable, flourishing aquatic environment.

www.theshrimpfarm.com

Complete planted aquarium substrate guide

What are popular substrates for a planted aquarium and what substrate is the best? What are the pros and cons of plain sand vs aquasoils? This page examines the key differences between the difference substrate types, and what are the advantages & disadvantages to using commercial aquasoils.

www.2hraquarist.com

 

[Art]

@BigWave wow! Thanks for the links. Really appreciate it.

I'm not too concerned about cycling the tank. It's just a thing to do while I front load PO4 into the substrate. With my last tank, I spent a couple of months suffering with PO4 levels that really impacted my plants. The phosphate just seemed to evaporate every couple of days. I am trying to see if I can avoid that this time around. Off to go read the links you provided.

 

[Sean Riva]

@BigWave wow! Thanks for the links. Really appreciate it.

I'm not too concerned about cycling the tank. It's just a thing to do while I front load PO4 into the substrate. With my last tank, I spent a couple of months suffering with PO4 levels that really impacted my plants. The phosphate just seemed to evaporate every couple of days. I am trying to see if I can avoid that this time around. Off to go read the links you provided.

I have high phos water naturally so I am planning on jumping in when I get to that point and the plants have all arrived. And just doing loads of water changes as described above . We will see a ways off that as of yet.

 

[le.nella]

I actually feel like I benefitted a lot from the dark start. I did a dark start on my 90U for about 3 weeks ( I was REALLY impatient but my busy college schedule kept me busy). The way I did it was adding about 2tbsp PO4 actually under the soil before setting it down. From there, I added about 1.5 tbsp of PO4 every week. I did a water change first day, along with planting.
To be honest, I have not seen algae (knock on wood) and actually why I am sticking to only using tissue culture in my tank currently, and 'deep' cleaning it every week (deep = surface substrate vacuuming).
Other key success factors include:
- higher pH water ( IIRC, higher pH actually quickens the cycle in the beginning)
- higher temperature
- more places for bacteria

With the PO4, I have noticed it has actually helped me cycle my tank within those 2 weeks, or even less. I didn't really get that smell of the water even after the second week. Didn't do a WC until first day of light.

 

[Art]

Either way, you will end up just fine. Always some turbulence on take off but you know smooth air is around the corner.

Stick with it.

For me, usually, dark start allows for me to focus on growing bacteria rather than plants and fish. This means doing things that would normally lead to algae if I had the lights on. I feel this gives everything in the tank a head start as the micro world is very important to the long-term health of the ecosystem you’re creating.

 

[SteveMetz]

I have a question: how long should it take to see ammonia in the dark start method? I'm using Fluval Stratum and after three days I'm only getting .25 ppm ammonia and zero nitrites.

I can think of two possible explanations. One is it simply that will take longer for the nutrients in the Stratum to form ammonia. The other is that I accelerated the process by pre-cycling my filter. (I ran it for two weeks before my tank arrives in a bucket of water with lab grade ammonia to the 4 ppm level and a bottle of FritzZyme 7).

 

[le.nella]

I have a question: how long should it take to see ammonia in the dark start method? I'm using Fluval Stratum and after three days I'm only getting .25 ppm ammonia and zero nitrites.

I can think of two possible explanations. One is it simply that will take longer for the nutrients in the Stratum to form ammonia. The other is that I accelerated the process by pre-cycling my filter. (I ran it for two weeks before my tank arrives in a bucket of water with lab grade ammonia to the 4 ppm level and a bottle of FritzZyme 7).

So you were already cycling the soil before hand? If so it may already be cycled? With Mastersoil (mastersoil and controsoil mix) I noticed like off-charts levels within 24 hours

 

[SteveMetz]

No, it was new. After looking into it further, the best I can figure is that Amazonia produces lots of ammonia when first submerged but Stratum doesn't. I eventually got about .5 ppm ammonia and .25 ppm of nitrites but after a week I'm getting zero.

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

I actually feel like I benefitted a lot from the dark start. I did a dark start on my 90U for about 3 weeks ( I was REALLY impatient but my busy college schedule kept me busy). The way I did it was adding about 2tbsp PO4 actually under the soil before setting it down. From there, I added about 1.5 tbsp of PO4 every week. I did a water change first day, along with planting.
To be honest, I have not seen algae (knock on wood) and actually why I am sticking to only using tissue culture in my tank currently, and 'deep' cleaning it every week (deep = surface substrate vacuuming).
Other key success factors include:
- higher pH water ( IIRC, higher pH actually quickens the cycle in the beginning)
- higher temperature
- more places for bacteria

With the PO4, I have noticed it has actually helped me cycle my tank within those 2 weeks, or even less. I didn't really get that smell of the water even after the second week. Didn't do a WC until first day of light.

How did you come up with the conclusion to dose po4? I am 2 weeks into a dark start method and wonder if I should be adding PO4. of course this tank is setup in anticipation of the preorder of plants I ordered from you

 

[Jeff Miotke]

No, it was new. After looking into it further, the best I can figure is that Amazonia produces lots of ammonia when first submerged but Stratum doesn't. I eventually got about .5 ppm ammonia and .25 ppm of nitrites but after a week I'm getting zero.

Some manufacturers of Aquasoil add ammonia and some do not. ADA and Tropica for sure add it. Mr Aqua, OASE, and I believe Fluval do not. You can test this by adding some pellets to a vial of water, let it soak, and doing a standard ammonia test. If it is enriched it will show high levels of ammonia. When I set up displays at conventions I use aquasoil without ammonia to add fish that day. At home, I use ammonia-soaked soils as this is our only opportunity to load up ammonia in the substrate. I've had discussions over the last year with Barr on ammonia and his study showing nitrogen depletion in the substrate. The crux being that ammonia is the only form of nitrogen that will bind to the aquasoil. So I have been experimenting with Barr's suggestion of soaking my old aquasoil in ammonia sulfate. And then spread out on a tarp to dry. He also suggested to sprinkle it with potassium sulfate and ground peat. The Peat is a bit messy so I'm planning on using this as a base layer and then placing depleted or aquasoil without ammonia as a cap. My thoughts are that the ammonia will leach from the base layer and the cap layer will then bind the ammonia to some degree versus it all leaching into the water column. I'd love to hear y'alls experience with ammonia and aquasoil. I've seen this hobby done successfully in so many ways over the decades. Do you use it? Do you avoid it? Are you even worried about substrate nutrients?