Help Planning a planted tank, would love some advice!

[SpookySparkle]

Hey, so I'm doing the planning for a foray into planted tanks and was hoping some more experienced folk could look over what I've got so far and let me know if it looks like everything would work out?

I'm gonna be doing a 40gal breeder, and have a basic idea of a layout (not exact but enough to kinda give myself an idea of what plants to look for/what setup I'm going for) I'm wanting to set it up in two 'levels' with a divider so there's the shallow/more open bottom level with smaller plants where the bottom feeders can still have plenty of softer substrate to nose around over, and a taller back tier with the medium/taller plants. I like the idea of a bubble wall, but that's more an aesthetic thing that can be scrapped if it'll cause more problems than it's worth. I slapped a brief mockup together of the general idea in paint, along with the fish list:



The water parameters aqadvisor gives me for them:
Recommended temperature range: 75.2 - 77 F
Recommended pH range: 6 - 7.4
Recommended hardness range: 5 - 15 dH
And from what I understand they're all moderate to low flow and moderate to low light preferring fish

The plants I was looking at (Not a comprehensive list just the ones I like that seem to be compatible with the water/fish parameters I'm looking to set up, if you have other better suggestions I'm open to them!)

Amazon Frogbit
Watersprite
Amazon Sword
Dwarf Saggitaria
Cryptocoryne wendtii
Anubias Nana
Rosette Sword
Java Fern Windelov
Vesuvius Sword
Anubias Nana
Rosette Sword
Bucephalandra
Marimo Moss Balls (I've heard they can be bleach-treated/rinsed to help ensure they don't have any unwanted passengers?)


My stepdad does salt water so I have access to an RO filter- from what I understand that generally means I just use that water with a mineralization treatment if necessary? And I'm not entirely sure on substrate- I know the front lower tier is gonna be a thinner layer of something softer like rounded gravel or sand, and for the deeper back layer I was thinking some sort of supporting substrate under the soil/plant substrate layer to get it to about maybe 5-ish inches but I want it to be something that will be good for the plants roots too.

If there's any advice anyone can offer, suggestions on substrate that you think would work well with this combo or plants of a similar look that might work better, I'd be happy to hear it!

 

[Art]

Welcome, again, to our growing community. I'm very glad you decided to join. Happy to help.

I like the idea of a bubble wall, but that's more an aesthetic thing that can be scrapped if it'll cause more problems than it's worth.

Depending on how you want to do this, it may be viable. My personal recommendation would be to have it on a timer and not running all the time. However, if you don't plan on supplementing CO2 (more on that later), then maybe a good idea to run it 24/7.

Marimo Moss Balls (I've heard they can be bleach-treated/rinsed to help ensure they don't have any unwanted passengers?)

IMHO, they look cool but more trouble than they are worth.

If there's any advice anyone can offer, suggestions on substrate that you think would work well with this combo or plants of a similar look that might work better, I'd be happy to hear it!

I would suggest a thin layer of sand for the open area with an aqua soil for the areas you want to root in.

On learning, I would ask you to start by looking at our Articles section to get a good overview of the basics. Specifically, you may want to look into The Soil Substrate Planted Tank and Can You Have a Planted Tank Without CO2? Of Course! articles. The second article will teach you about the plant's needs for CO2. The plants you mention may be able to do well without supplemental CO2 but read the article and decide.

Lastly, you didn't mention lighting. I wrote a brief article entitled Shedding Light on Success: A Comprehensive Guide to Aquarium Lighting for Planted Tanks that you may find useful.

Oh, and I see you're in Alabama. I think one of our resident experts is also there @Burr740. Always good having a mentor close by.

 

[SpookySparkle]

Welcome, again, [...] one of our resident experts is also there @Burr740. Always good having a mentor close by.

Thanks so much! I'm really excited about my future tank so having somewhere to chat about it is great!

I'm considering the idea of running Co2, but yeah putting it on a timer would be the plan either way with a bubbler- it's more for looks and from what I understand some fish like messing with the bubbles so more enrichment for them, so no need for it to be on 24/7! Either way thank you for the articles, I'm definitely going to do more reading before I commit one way or the other. It's gonna be at least a couple months before I can start picking up equipment so I've got plenty of time to research and don't want to rush.

Marimos aren't a make or break part of the tank, but can I ask what makes them obnoxious in your experience? A lot of the stuff I've seen makes them seem easy to care for assuming you don't get one that's contaminated by hitch-hikers of some sort, but then if they're talking about how cool they are then it makes sense they'd want to play them up. I was considering using a couple to make the betta ledges soft- I've seen people smush their extras flat and tether them to the ledges, but I could always pick a smoother design rather than something set up for plant matter being attached.

And yeah, what a small world! Better connection through plants! XD

 

[Art]

It's gonna be at least a couple months before I can start picking up equipment so I've got plenty of time to research and don't want to rush.

Stick to this and you will have an enjoyable journey and minimize mistakes.

Marimos aren't a make or break part of the tank, but can I ask what makes them obnoxious in your experience?

Everyone is different and so please consider them. However, in my experience, they tend to get very dirty with anything floating in your aquarium. They also look out of place eventually because they don't look natural other than being green.

To soften things up, go with mosses glued or tied to the surface of what you want softened. Java moss is a beginner friendly moss that does this very well. Much more natural look.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Technology has come a long way since most of us started, “timers” are kind of dated and IME, I haven’t found a mechanical or digital timer that didn’t fail at some point. WiFi plugs/power strips are your friend and I personally recommend the Kasa line of products. I have never had an issue, or failure since using them the past 5 years.

 

[Kwyet]

I use the Kasa products as well. For any timing that is very important (CO2), I program multiple ON and OFF times, because occasionally a WiFi glitch will interfere.

 

[SpookySparkle]

To soften things up, go with mosses glued or tied to the surface of what you want softened. Java moss is a beginner friendly moss that does this very well. Much more natural look.

I'll keep that in mind then! Java moss looks pretty too, so I'm definitely open to switching to something like that rather than marimos. I'll play with those in a different setting where the goal isn't something more natural I think.

Technology has come a long way since most of us started, “timers” are kind of dated and IME, I haven’t found a mechanical or digital timer that didn’t fail at some point. WiFi plugs/power strips are your friend and I personally recommend the Kasa line of products. I have never had an issue, or failure since using them the past 5 years.

I use the Kasa products as well. For any timing that is very important (CO2), I program multiple ON and OFF times, because occasionally a WiFi glitch will interfere.

Thanks for the recommendation! I've been watching my stepdad fight with his timers so I'm definitely here for the idea of something less issue-prone.

Also, looking at CO2 tanks, they want the diffuser on the 'far end' of the water cycle- if I'm using two sponge filters does that mean basically somewhere on the back/center wall of the tank to kinda catch the flow from both sponges to spread, or pick one side to set it on? (Or would it be better in that case to use a back of tank filter that can be set to a gentle flow?)

 

[Kwyet]

If you’re going to use CO2, you want good circulation throughout the tank. I wouldn’t choose sponge filters for that. If you really want to use sponge filters though, there are a few that will give horizontal flow, and you would place the diffuser where the flow could blow those bubbles around the tank. Really, if you use an in-tank diffuser, you want to place it in the flow of whatever kind of filter you’re using. I think the best route is to use a canister filter and a Yugang Horizontal Reactor though. Also, if you use CO2, I think it would be best to only run the bubble wall after the CO2 has shut off for the day. It’s important to keep the CO2 level stable during the day.

 

[SpookySparkle]

If you’re going to use CO2, you want good circulation throughout the tank. I wouldn’t choose sponge filters for that. If you really want to use sponge filters though, there are a few that will give horizontal flow, and you would place the diffuser where the flow could blow those bubbles around the tank. Really, if you use an in-tank diffuser, you want to place it in the flow of whatever kind of filter you’re using. I think the best route is to use a canister filter and a Yugang Horizontal Reactor though. Also, if you use CO2, I think it would be best to only run the bubble wall after the CO2 has shut off for the day. It’s important to keep the CO2 level stable during the day.

Mostly I'm just wanting to make sure whatever filters I'm using aren't too rough for the fish, but I'll look at the horizontal flow styles and consider a canister filter. And if I do the CO2 I'm not adding in the bubbles I'll just swap in a few tall-growing plants in that case.

 

[Count Krunk]

As long as you don't put in a power head for a 75g reef tank you wont have filters too rough for the fish.

What fish do you have in mind? Besides betta.

I would definitely do a canister filter over a sponge filter for sure. It will work much better at filtering the water.

Whatever the manufacturer calls for, i like to double it haha.

I'm using an oase 100 on a 10g shrimp and rasbora tank for example. The spray bar makes for a very gentle flow throughout the tank.

 

[SpookySparkle]

As long as you don't [...] makes for a very gentle flow throughout the tank.

I'm looking at Kuhli loaches, Harlequin Rasboras, and a few red whiptails. If the Betta doesn't get along with them I'll just boot him to a solo tank and maybe add another chill type fish to the community tank if I feel the need.

I'm just wary of adding something else with more complex maintenance to the tank if it's not overly necessary, but if it winds up being the way to go then there's not much to do about it! I am glad to hear that it can be calm flow-wise regardless.

 

[Art]

Unlike marine setups, planted aquarium flow doesn't need to be chaotic or fast. It needs to properly move all the water around the aquarium with enough force to wash over the leaves.

 

[*Ci*]

I think sponge filters are overall way more maintenance hassle than a canister - having to pull a sponge out of a planted tank to squeeze out is wet and drippy, disturbing to the fish, uprooting to the plants (not to mention the space it takes away from your aquascape potential) and releases a bunch of organics into the water while you are pulling them.
A canister, you can disconnect and carry to a sink to service, with no disturbance to the tank or even easier, if you get one with a prefilter (like Oase) which is super easy to clean and allow your canister to only need attention a few times a year.

 

[Koan]

a back of tank filter

As mentioned above, the Oase Biomaster filters that have a pre-filter built in are by far the easiest to maintain, you just pull out the pre filter once a week rinse it and put it back.

If you're going to do a hang on filter, definitely recommend you go with something from the Seachem Tidal line for the simple reason that they're designed to self-prime. This is because if the power goes out for even a minute, traditional hang on the back filters will run dry, and keep running dry until you get home and reprime them. The Seachem Tidal is set up to be able to keep pumping again as soon as the power comes back. The flow is also adjustable.

I have the 55 on a 22 gallon long with a betta and he loves it

 

[Art]

OK @Koan you are going to have to start a journal on that aquarium. You've been hiding it or did I miss it? Aquatic plants in planter boxes in an aquarium? Are you kidding me? Love it!!

@SpookySparkle, agree with everyone on the filter. The canister type with easy mechanical filter replacement is the best. Hang ons are also workable provided they maintain prime and you can replace the mechanical filter easily.

 

[SpookySparkle]

I think sponge filters are ... a few times a year.

As mentioned above, the Oase Biomaster filters ... 55 on a 22 gallon long with a betta and he loves it

OK ... the mechanical filter easily.

Research was pointing me towards the Oase anyways, especially with the nice perk of some versions having the heater out of tank too- looking at it, the maintenance isn't really as bad as I was worried about, and I do like the idea that there's more room for plants and less reason to upend the poor fishes home every time I need to clean the filter. I was a bit worried about power outages but I can keep a battery-operated air pump charged and hide a sponge filter sponge in with the filter medium in the oase right? Then just pop the sponge filter/air stone in the aquarium and it's generally good for at least a while? (we get power outages here but they usually only last for an hour or two at the most, on occasion stretching to 6, and I know the main thing is keeping the water oxygenated)

And I'm much more interested in the Co2 the more I learn about it. I'd likely just do an inline rather than add another element inside the tank, but as far as the regulator goes, from my understanding a dual stage is typically better. Is there a brand that tends to work well in your experience? I've seen Co2art recommended, but just as many people warning against it, same for fzone. And GLA GRO is another one but looks kind of pricey? (If the quality difference is really that good I don't mind paying for it but I don't know enough about aquarium tech to know if it's a matter of better quality or you're paying the 'Name Premium' in some cases.)

 

[gnatster]

And I'm much more interested in the Co2 the more I learn about it. I'd likely just do an inline rather than add another element inside the tank, but as far as the regulator goes, from my understanding a dual stage is typically better. Is there a brand that tends to work well in your experience? I've seen Co2art recommended, but just as many people warning against it, same for fzone. And GLA GRO is another one but looks kind of pricey? (If the quality difference is really that good I don't mind paying for it but I don't know enough about aquarium tech to know if it's a matter of better quality or you're paying the 'Name Premium' in some cases.)

Been there, done that, have the bruised wallet. Purchased 2 complete CO2 systems off FB Marketplace for what appeared to be a heck of a deal. One FZone, one CO2Art. 2 full 5lb tanks, tubing, etc, etc. A week of issues, ordered a GLA Dual Stage. Problems solved., Been steady as a rock, admiddity, only a week. David from GLA is a great help, answered my questions, and explained to me why I was experiencing the issues that were bedeviling me.

Buy quality once.

 

[SpookySparkle]

Been there, done that, ... Buy quality once.

Oh man, I've been there with other hobbies, and I understand completely! Glad to hear the customer service was on point, that's always another good reason to shell out a little extra

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

GLA CO2 reactors are top tier. The other mentioned brands are hit or miss, and if you do buy them you need to buy brand new not second hand. The only second hand purchase id make is for a true commercial grade regulator. That can be intimidating without prior knowledge or research though.

 

[Koan]

I was a bit worried about power outages but I can keep a battery-operated air pump charged and hide a sponge filter sponge in with the filter medium in the oase right?

Well there's a big difference between a canister filter and a hang-on filter. The hang on filter sits above the water line, which means that unless it's specifically designed to self-prime (Seachem Tidal) , as soon as the power goes out all the water falls out. It can't restart its own siphon, you have to come back and pour water into it to restart it.

Canister filter is a closed system, soon as the power comes back on it will just start pumping again. Now for very long power outages, days not hours, your denitrifying bacterial colony will lose oxygen in that canister and die, but that's a different issue. That's much more a concern for a fish-only tank than for a planted tank, which has as much or more bacterial mass in the tank itself than in the canister.