Question of the Day Macro and micro nutrient accumulation in your aquarium - problem or benefit?

[Firestorm]

incomplete just means not covering all the bases of the most common diseases. One could have affected the weaker or more stressed fish, every fish in qt could all suffer from different or multiple ailments, or none. Its why a broad spectrum is covered to be as thorough as reasonably possible.

Not really sure what you mean. But if you are talking about the "famous trio" (without calling names), this "complete QT" makes zero logical sense to me, and here is why: Fritz Maracyn is symply erythromycin, effective primarily against gram-positive bacteria (while most infections in fish are caused by gram-negative bacteria). Putting fish without infections through antibiotic preventatively does nothing good and a LOT of long-term damage as it creates antibiotic-resistant infections. Fritz ParaCleanse is pretty much the same as API General Cure, and its primary antiparasitic ingredient, praziquantel is what PraziPro is. As for ich medication, if there was never an ich, why to use it?? Ich is not a dormant lurking monster, that myth has been long dispelled. If you don't see one in 6 weeks, then you are in the clear.

 

[Count Krunk]

You're asking for help, I'm giving you a possible answer.

to respond specifically about ich, you wouldnt know if the fish had it unless the lfs held it for 6 weeks, which they never do. Thats true for many many other diseases.

Such as neon tetra wasting disease. They look fine in the store, but you can almost bet half of them are going to die 24-48 hours after you get them home.

Anyway, just a possible cause. If you want to learn more than you thought existed about qt, check out humble fish.

 

[Firestorm]

You're asking for help, I'm giving you a possible answer.

to respond specifically about ich, you wouldnt know if the fish had it unless the lfs held it for 6 weeks, which they never do. Thats true for many many other diseases.

Such as neon tetra wasting disease. They look fine in the store, but you can almost bet half of them are going to die 24-48 hours after you get them home.

Anyway, just a possible cause. If you want to learn more than you thought existed about qt, check out humble fish.

True. And that was the reason for the 6 weeks QT that they had in my place. As for treating, like you mentioned, there are many, MANY diseases (with many different treatments). So, using meds preventatively makes sense only in the context of antiparasitic meds, because otherwise, it's like a shot in the dark, in my opinion.

The "wasting disease" (often seen in tetras) can be fish TB (mycobacterium spp, most commonly mycobacterium marinum), and this disease has no treatment (and is infectious to humans). As for "wasting disease" that can be often seen in livebearers, according to Greg Sage of Select Aquatics, Levamisole is the most effective treatment (and Fritz Expel-P that I use during new fish QT is Levamisole).

I do appreciate any feedback and all words of wisdom. I guess "the famous trio" thing is really a logical trigger for me, especially when combined with the advice of not feeding already pre-starved fish for a week while soaking it in a bunch of meds. Logically, it just makes little sense, and the practice guarantees to produce more antibiotic resistant pathogens in the hobby as the result.

 

[Count Krunk]

step one of "proper" qt is conditioning. getting the fish fatter, unless the fish shows obvious ailments right away.

Per keeping fish simple on yt, the best way to get around wasting disease is breeding your own stock from the survivors.

 

[Firestorm]

step one of "proper" qt is conditioning. getting the fish fatter, unless the fish shows obvious ailments right away.

Per keeping fish simple on yt, the best way to get around wasting disease is breeding your own stock from the survivors.

Agreed, 1000%! I guess, my biggest trigger in that expert "trio QT" protocol is that it advises to withhold food from the fish (including the pre-starved shipped fish) for a week. It just feels completely counterproductive. I always feed QT'd fish a TON of quality frozen foods (w/ frequent water changes) and just a small amount of New Life Spectrum Optimum flakes (so that they get used to these flakes that I use with my fish). Restoring fish' nutritional status ASAP is so important, IMO (I am a dietitian, so I guess starving anything is a no-no in my book).

 

[Firestorm]

UPDATE: It appears that Hikari Ultimate was the issue, so back to Prime I go.

 

[Count Krunk]

UPDATE: It appears that Hikari Ultimate was the issue, so back to Prime I go.

How did you determine that? Just curious, I'm no hikari fanboy, but maybe stick to their foods haha.

 

[Firestorm]

How did you determine that? Just curious, I'm no hikari fanboy, but maybe stick to their foods haha.

I added Prime directly into the tank, and the symptoms improved. I since have done two more 10-gal water changes (the tank is 40 gal) with water treated with Prime, and (knock on wood) the symptoms are now very minor. Planning on doing another 10-gal water change on Friday, and hoping that things will continue to look better.

I used Hikari Ultimate for probably close to a year (for sure longer than 6 months), and did see some occasional flashing right after water changes. However, in the past, I usually aged water for 1-3 weeks, as I was lazy with water changes (I only started keeping on top of water changes after I started injecting CO2 and thus use fertilizer, <3 months ago). But this time around, when I started doing changes with water only aged 24-48 hours (after dichlorination with Ultimate), the whole hell broke loose. My gut feeling was all along about the water, and looks like it was correct. So, definitely back to Prime now. Will continue to do 10-gal water changes 3x/ week for right now, and will continue to monitor closely.

 

[Burr740]

Let me whip out this trusty Occam's Razor from my pocket and suggest that it might just be the fresh water changes that helped

 

[Firestorm]

Let me whip out this trusty Occam's Razor from my pocket and suggest that it might just be the fresh water changes that helped

Sadly, it was the other way around.