Is this Father Fish inspired aquarium doomed?

[Art]

I’ve been hearing about the minuscules size of the plant market for years. I agree that is a tiny fraction of the market out there back then and remains so today.

If you are a commercial interest, you have two perspectives here. One is, too small and I won’t make money on it today. I will focus on a larger market like reef tanks.

The other perspective is to count your blessings that you found a niche that you can totally control and grow without competition. A longer term view for sure but it’s all upside.

The reef aquarium hobby was also minuscule back in the day. No one knew what to do with or if you needed an iPad. What counts is that somebody focused on a small market or created one.

The reality is that according to 2022 statistics, 10% of the US population owned tropical freshwater fish. That’s 11.5 million households. I think BRS Fresh is the only one thinking they can convert some of those into true hobbyists. Petco and Petsmart also think they can win a tiny percent or they wouldn’t carry plants.

Where they are failing is in not having a proper marketing campaign to get it going.

Anyways, we can beat this to death and get frustrated. I feel good that we are doing our part in helping to spread the word.

 

[Wet Elbows]

I’ve been hearing about the minuscules size of the plant market for years. I agree that is a tiny fraction of the market out there back then and remains so today.

If you are a commercial interest, you have two perspectives here. One is, too small and I won’t make money on it today. I will focus on a larger market like reef tanks.

The other perspective is to count your blessings that you found a niche that you can totally control and grow without competition. A longer term view for sure but it’s all upside.

The reef aquarium hobby was also minuscule back in the day. No one knew what to do with or if you needed an iPad. What counts is that somebody focused on a small market or created one.

The reality is that according to 2022 statistics, 10% of the US population owned tropical freshwater fish. That’s 11.5 million households. I think BRS Fresh is the only one thinking they can convert some of those into true hobbyists. Petco and Petsmart also think they can win a tiny percent or they wouldn’t carry plants.

Where they are failing is in not having a proper marketing campaign to get it going.

Anyways, we can beat this to death and get frustrated. I feel good that we are doing our part in helping to spread the word.

I agree there is a huge opportunity for someone to really grow a business. Sorry @Koan, I see your pun and raise you one,

I'll give you a great example of how to spread the word. Back in the early 90's I worked for Marineland as part of it's Ambassador program. I don't know if they were doing this across the U.S. or just in the Midwest. I had 5 or 6 guys working under me spread out across a few states, IL, WI, IN, MO, etc. These guys were just regular hobbyists like you and me, they all had regular jobs. I would schedule an Ambassador at a LFS on a Weekend and they would go to the store, set up a display tank with a Marineland filter running and talk to people. Sure we were steering them towards Marineland products, but it generated additional sales for the store they probably wouldn't have got otherwise. I was also able to equip my guys with a tool box of spare parts, impellers, O rings, spray bars, etc. so if the store didn't sell spare parts we would give the customer one for free.

So think about the possibilities with a plant ambassador in a store with a nice little display, the equipment, and the information to take an average person and get them started on the path to success.

 

[Jeff Miotke]

What a great thread this turned into! But to answer the OP who is long out of the hobby. Yes, Yes your FF tank is doomed.

 

[Count Krunk]

It goes back to the GRIT a person has haha.

If they got that dog in em haha.

Its why for a planted tank i point people that ask to the style of tank i posted about earlier. You WILL get good results with a variety of plants. I tell them see this co2 tank? It wont look like that!

If they can handle that, and they get the itch, only they can take it from there to progress further.

I totally agree, that LFS petco/smart are dropping the ball BIG time when it comes to planted aquariums. A good sw fish store will have several nice displays and tell you how to get there.

Their nice fw display? Bunch of fish, chiclids or goldfish I've found most often..

 

[Pepere]

In all fairness to the chain stores…. If they had a nice planted tank, and a reasonable CO2 regulator for sale and such, Would you buy it there? Or would you buy it online?

I have a local Petco and other than tanks, they see a small proportion of my fish budget…

Most of my fish are shipped to me as well….

Now, if The Black Shark, (closed local Fish Store from when I was a kid) was still open, I would likely be shopping there more than Ido at Petco…

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

What a great thread this turned into! But to answer the OP who is long out of the hobby. Yes, Yes your FF tank is doomed.

Only took 5 pages of replies, we are ELITE.

Joking aside the discussions here on SC lately have been awesome all around.

 

[Kwyet]

I don’t expect this to happen anywhere, but I was thinking…wouldn’t it be nice if the stores set up display tanks for different levels of experience/expectations with info about what is needed to accomplish them? This is a beginner low-tech planted tank, this is a good middle energy tank with DIY CO2, this is a contest worthy high tech tank with maximized CO2 and high end lighting…
I don’t know, I think that would be great.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

I don’t expect this to happen anywhere, but I was thinking…wouldn’t it be nice if the stores set up display tanks for different levels of experience/expectations with info about what is needed to accomplish them? This is a beginner low-tech planted tank, this is a good middle energy tank with DIY CO2, this is a contest worthy high tech tank with maximized CO2 and high end lighting…
I don’t know, I think that would be great.

That place already exists, it’s called Aquarium Gardens in the UK

 

[Kwyet]

That place already exists, it’s called Aquarium Gardens in the UK

It would be nice if that would spread to more places then.

 

[Count Krunk]

If petco/smart hadnt proved how terrible they are, sure i would buy more stuff from there.

 

[Wet Elbows]

In all fairness to the chain stores…. If they had a nice planted tank, and a reasonable CO2 regulator for sale and such, Would you buy it there? Or would you buy it online?

I have a local Petco and other than tanks, they see a small proportion of my fish budget…

Most of my fish are shipped to me as well….

Now, if The Black Shark, (closed local Fish Store from when I was a kid) was still open, I would likely be shopping there more than Ido at Petco…

Wouldn't you? It would be cheaper in a PetSmart because of their buying power, you wouldn't have to pay for shipping, you could go pick it up today instead of waiting 5 to 10 days for it to be shipped to you.
I mean their fish will still have ich but they have CO2 supplies.

 

[Pepere]

Wouldn't you? It would be cheaper in a PetSmart because of their buying power, you wouldn't have to pay for shipping, you could go pick it up today instead of waiting 5 to 10 days for it to be shipped to you.

My canister filters have been cheaper online with delivery than Petco.

Food is a fraction of the cost from Aquarium co op than Petco. Heck, I can pay shipping on a few canisters of fish food and still come out cheaper than Petco…

The few times I have gone to petco cause I ran out of dechlor they were out….

 

[Kwyet]

A lot of stuff is cheaper on Amazon, and it comes pretty quickly. A lot of people are there already though because of other pet supplies, grooming etc. If you’re starting out though, you barely know what you need. In that case, if there were quality examples provided and the items needed to achieve them, people would be more likely to buy it all at one place. I pretty much stopped going there because it was always a wasted trip. They never had anything I was looking for.
I had better luck at the local fish shop that started buying my plants and fish, but even then I often needed to find what I wanted elsewhere.

 

[Wet Elbows]

A lot of stuff is cheaper on Amazon, and it comes pretty quickly. A lot of people are there already though because of other pet supplies, grooming etc. If you’re starting out though, you barely know what you need. In that case, if there were quality examples provided and the items needed to achieve them, people would be more likely to buy it all at one place. I pretty much stopped going there because it was always a wasted trip. They never had anything I was looking for.
I had better luck at the local fish shop that started buying my plants and fish, but even then I often needed to find what I wanted elsewhere.

I pretty much agree. I have 2 big box stores 20 mins away and a couple more an hour away and that's it. I started my latest tank in November and have been to PetSmart twice since then, and once was to get cat food. All aquarium supplies and plants I've ordered online.

 

[Koan]

Okay sure but this misses the point of a big box pet store.. it's where families go to buy birthday presents for their kids and kids go to spend their birthday money. It's where new pet parents find better-than- supermarket dog and cat food.

It's where children and young families get interested in fish, and we would hope, plants.

Their whole business model is based on volume, the assumption of turnover is baked in. They don't expect to serve the lifetime hobbyist, or even the established new hobbyist. There are more than enough enough new hobbyists and new families coming up that they can continue to provide meh inventory, just enough to get people off the ground.

This is where we want the first step to be, beyond keeping fish alive and into a planted tank, right now there's just no next step into success with plants.

 

[Art]

This is the question. Where are future aquatic gardeners first going to see an aquarium before they even know what aquatic gardening is? It's not Amazon, LFSs or even online.

It's at the big box stores where they go to buy their dog or cat food. It's Target shopping for kids' clothing. It's Walmart.

Heck, I got interested in fish keeping because I want to keep alive the goldfish I won at the county fair. Look at me now!

 

[Dennis Wong]

I understand the points, and agree that improvements could have been made. The book was rather dry, and some of it is outdated now. I still think it was a valuable contribution, and as an extreme newb, I found it informative. I never used actual dirt though, having read about aquasoil (completely new to me at the time). I think it should be kept in mind that not everyone can just work extra shifts and save more money. When you’re already working a couple of jobs, or around 60 hours a week and raising kids, you can’t necessarily do that. Why shouldn’t you be able to enjoy a low-tech, low-maintenance tank? Why look down on that? You can say it’s not for you, but I don’t understand the judginess here.

Here is my little bowl from before we moved, filterless, no supplemental CO2, but with small water changes every couple of weeks, and a little bit of aquasoil and sand, and it didn’t break the bank!

View attachment 8582

That's a nice bowl and i have nothing against low tech or simple approaches at all.

What I'm criticizing is the way she has written/marketed her book because I think it could have been presented in a much more concise, effective manner as I described what was lacking in my post. I think the book gives the impression that by understanding enough of her jargon it would bring (great) results but it does not - because her techniques were not good enough.

Her book wasted quite a bit of my own time trying to figure out jargon that did 0 to practically improve my setups.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Amazon, as great as it is, depending

That's a nice bowl and i have nothing against low tech or simple approaches at all.

What I'm criticizing is the way she has written/marketed her book because I think it could have been presented in a much more concise, effective manner as I described what was lacking in my post. I think the book gives the impression that by understanding enough of her jargon it would bring (great) results but it does not - because her techniques were not good enough.

Her book wasted quite a bit of my own time trying to figure out jargon that did 0 to practically improve my setups.

This I do agree with. After reading her book and trying it out myself, yikes . I’m sure it was user error, but it wasn’t super simple to decipher either.

 

[GreggZ]

Her book wasted quite a bit of my own time trying to figure out jargon that did 0 to practically improve my setups.

I almost hate to even bring this up, as I know there are many who idolize her.

A few years back she actually joined TPT and made some broad statements about planted aquariums. When people started challenging her about the validity of those statements IMO she did not react well and seemed shocked that anyone would question her. Only went on for a day or two. When she left she suggested we buy the book if we wanted enlightenment.

I think part of the problem was that she was active on another site where she was adored and revered and no one ever questioned any of her statements. When she got out of that cocoon things were quite different, and she didn’t appear to be interested in hearing other views or experiences.

I was disappointed as when she joined I thought it could lead to some very interesting deep discussions. But it was not be.

 

[Jeff Miotke]

I almost hate to even bring this up, as I know there are many who idolize her.

A few years back she actually joined TPT and made some broad statements about planted aquariums. When people started challenging her about the validity of those statements IMO she did not react well and seemed shocked that anyone would question her. Only went on for a day or two. When she left she suggested we buy the book if we wanted enlightenment.

I think part of the problem was that she was active on another site where she was adored and revered and no one ever questioned any of her statements. When she got out of that cocoon things were quite different, and she didn’t appear to be interested in hearing other views or experiences.

I was disappointed as when she joined I thought it could lead to some very interesting deep discussions. But it was not be.

That’s a bummer. It’s tough for most people to separate a topic from the person behind it. I wonder if that’s part of what’s going on here. When a method carries someone’s name, like the Walstad Method, and receives so much praise, it can feel deeply personal. The method becomes tied to the person’s identity rather than remaining just a technique or idea. That makes any criticism feel like a personal attack, even when it isn’t meant that way.

Food for thought. Now that FF method. That's crap.