How much apt3 should I dose?

[Asher E.]

Rotala butterfly says to use 6.4ml weekly for a low light tank. But the 2hr aquarists dosing calculator says 1.4ml weekly.
What dosage should I do?
This is for a low tech 5.5 gallon aquarium. Lots of easy plants in it. No co2.

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

6.5mL would be quite high, IMO. I'd start closer to 2mL, look/test for deficiencies at the end of the week, and increase from there if needed.

 

[Asher E.]

6.5mL would be quite high, IMO. I'd start closer to 2mL, look/test for deficiencies at the end of the week, and increase from there if needed.

Thanks. I’ll try 1 ml twice a week.

 

[GreggZ]

Rotala butterfly says to use 6.4ml weekly for a low light tank. But the 2hr aquarists dosing calculator says 1.4ml weekly.
What dosage should I do?
This is for a low tech 5.5 gallon aquarium. Lots of easy plants in it. No co2.

You are misreading the results.

Rotala Butterfly is showing how much to add to reach a target. The target in this case is 10 ppm NO3. So if you add a single dose of 6.4ml you would raise NO3 to 10 ppm. Or you could dose 1.28 ml fives times a week for the same results.

The 2hr aquarist calculator is showing how much a single dose provides. But it recommends multiple doses per week. Carefully read the Frequency Recommendation. For full EI it recommends dosing daily. Daily doses of 1.4 ml which would equal 9.8 ml per week (7 x 1.4 ml). With lower energy tank you might dose 3 times a week, which is 4.2 ml per week.

All that being said don’t focus on how many ml you are adding, but on how many nutrients you are adding. Start thinking in terms of how much NO3, PO4, and K you are adding weekly. That is the language of the planted tank and will help you as you progress in the hobby.

Then later learn about how water changes affect the actual values in the water column.

In basic terms if you dose 10 ppm NO3 weekly with 50% weekly water changes your maximum theoretical NO3 value is 20 ppm. But the same dose with 25% the maximum theoretical value is 40 ppm.

Sounds like you are at the point in your journey where it will pay to understand these concepts, especially if you go higher light with stems.

Much depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. The higher tech you are the more these concepts are worth learning about.

 

[Asher E.]

You are misreading the results.

Rotala Butterfly is showing how much to add to reach a target. The target in this case is 10 ppm NO3. So if you add a single dose of 6.4ml you would raise NO3 to 10 ppm. Or you could dose 1.28 ml fives times a week for the same results.

The 2hr aquarist calculator is showing how much a single dose provides. But it recommends multiple doses per week. Carefully read the Frequency Recommendation. For full EI it recommends dosing daily. Daily doses of 1.4 ml which would equal 9.8 ml per week (7 x 1.4 ml). With lower energy tank you might dose 3 times a week, which is 4.2 ml per week.

All that being said don’t focus on how many ml you are adding, but on how many nutrients you are adding. Start thinking in terms of how much NO3, PO4, and K you are adding weekly. That is the language of the planted tank and will help you as you progress in the hobby.

Then later learn about how water changes affect the actual values in the water column.

In basic terms if you dose 10 ppm NO3 weekly with 50% weekly water changes your maximum theoretical NO3 value is 20 ppm. But the same dose with 25% the maximum theoretical value is 40 ppm.

Sounds like you are at the point in your journey where it will pay to understand these concepts, especially if you go higher light with stems.

Much depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. The higher tech you are the more these concepts are worth learning about.

I think you missed something. On the 2hr aquarists calculator I put in once a week for the dosing frequency. And for rotala butterfly it was “ei low light weekly” for the dosage.

 

[Jeff Miotke]

Maybe the difference is in the approaches you selected. One you did a calculation for apt3 and the other you did ei. Ei is significantly richer. What if in rotala and select the apt3 option instead? I suspect the apt3 calculation is correct.

 

[Asher E.]

Maybe the difference is in the approaches you selected. One you did a calculation for apt3 and the other you did ei. Ei is significantly richer. What if in rotala and select the apt3 option instead? I suspect the apt3 calculation is correct.

I selected apt3 but with ei low light dosing. I’ll just try out 1 ml twice a week and of it isn’t enough I’ll just do more.

 

[Jeff Miotke]

I selected apt3 but with ei low light dosing. I’ll just try out 1 ml twice a week and of it isn’t enough I’ll just do more.

Yea that sounds correct as you would need more apt3 to reach ei levels than you would reaching the recommended apt3 levels. My advice is follow the apt3 calculator as Dennis Wong has done his homework well.

 

[Sb1415]

Reviving this thread, because i plan to use APT 3/APT 1 for my upcoming build. As @GreggZ mentioned i would like to know the exact PPM of NO3, PO4, K, Mg and FE that is added by these fertilizer (i understand it is 0 for APT 1 for NO3/PO4).

The 2hr Aquarist site provides guaranteed analysis by % also has note for why they provide % instead of PPM but i am confused as to the rationale as to why one would not display the PPM breakdown on the website as well.

I fed the info to Chat GPT and got the following info

" Here’s the same breakdown for 1 mL of APT 3 in 10 L of water.

Ion / Element	mg added by 1 mL	ppm in 10 L
NO₃⁻ (from 0.7% N as nitrate)	30.99 mg	3.10 ppm
PO₄³⁻ (from 0.9% P₂O₅)	12.04 mg	1.20 ppm
K (from 7% K₂O)	58.11 mg	5.81 ppm
Mg (from 1.6% MgO)	9.65 mg	0.965 ppm
Fe (0.09% chelated)	0.90 mg	0.090 ppm

Extra conversions:

• Elemental P: 3.93 mg → 0.393 ppm P in 10 L.
• Nitrate-N: 7.0 mg → 0.70 ppm N in 10 L. "

Does this sound correct ?

Additional questions

• Do you all dose based on Nitrate-N/elemental P or No3/Po4 ?
• What is a rough guideline on dosing for someone with a 50-80% weekly water change routine ? are these rough assumptions correct ?

-- Lean dosing - Dose to have a stable water column No3 of 0 - 10 ppm
-- EI dosing - Dose to have stable water column No3 of 10 - 30 ppm

Thanks all

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

Does this sound correct ?

These numbers do not appear to be right when I input them into Rotala Butterfly. Here are my results for 1ml into 10L.


So If you are adding 1mL to a 10L aquarium your doing result is 2.9681 ppm of NO3. The NPK percentages are close to that of the product when I check on 2hr website.

What is a rough guideline on dosing for someone with a 50-80% weekly water change routine ? are these rough assumptions correct ?

It depends on your goal. I would recommend a consistent water change weekly. That way you can easily maintain nutrient levels. If you do 50% one week and then 80% another week you will have to dose 30% more nutrients on the week that you did an 80% water change volume to account for the removal of nutrients from the water change. If you do weekly personally I divide my total ppm of nutrients into 4 doses. Doing a double dose after water change and then 2 normal doses during the week. So how that looks for me is Sunday half the total nutirents after water change(50%), Tuesday a quarter of the nutrients (25%), Thursday a quarter of the nutrients (25%) which give me 100% of my nutrients for the week and then water change on Sunday. You want whatever your target ppm for the week divided by the amount of times you want to dose between water changes.

So lets look at an example if you want to target 15ppm of NO3 during the week then you need to dose a total of 5.1 mL throughtout the week to reach that number. So if you dose that over 4 days you need to dose 1.275 mL for 4 days. You could also do a water change and dose all 5.1 mL but with this being a AIO I would want to break up the Fe dosing throughout the week.

Do you all dose based on Nitrate-N/elemental P or No3/Po4 ?

Since you are using APT3 I would base your dose off of NO3, the reason I personally do not like AIO is 1. you are locked into there ratios and 2. you are essentially paying for water. While I love Dennis Wong and what he has done this is true of all AIO products companys make or even individual bottles a certain company makes of individual elements.

I hope this helps. Hopefully I did not confuse you. If you have questions please do not be afraid to respond.

 

[Sb1415]

These numbers do not appear to be right when I input them into Rotala Butterfly. Here are my results for 1ml into 10L.

View attachment 9675
So If you are adding 1mL to a 10L aquarium your doing result is 2.9681 ppm of NO3. The NPK percentages are close to that of the product when I check on 2hr website.



It depends on your goal. I would recommend a consistent water change weekly. That way you can easily maintain nutrient levels. If you do 50% one week and then 80% another week you will have to dose 30% more nutrients on the week that you did an 80% water change volume to account for the removal of nutrients from the water change. If you do weekly personally I divide my total ppm of nutrients into 4 doses. Doing a double dose after water change and then 2 normal doses during the week. So how that looks for me is Sunday half the total nutirents after water change(50%), Tuesday a quarter of the nutrients (25%), Thursday a quarter of the nutrients (25%) which give me 100% of my nutrients for the week and then water change on Sunday. You want whatever your target ppm for the week divided by the amount of times you want to dose between water changes.
View attachment 9676
So lets look at an example if you want to target 15ppm of NO3 during the week then you need to dose a total of 5.1 mL throughtout the week to reach that number. So if you dose that over 4 days you need to dose 1.275 mL for 4 days. You could also do a water change and dose all 5.1 mL but with this being a AIO I would want to break up the Fe dosing throughout the week.



Since you are using APT3 I would base your dose off of NO3, the reason I personally do not like AIO is 1. you are locked into there ratios and 2. you are essentially paying for water. While I love Dennis Wong and what he has done this is true of all AIO products companys make or even individual bottles a certain company makes of individual elements.

I hope this helps. Hopefully I did not confuse you. If you have questions please do not be afraid to respond.

Thanks for the detailed response! I tried using Rotala buttery fly but the 1/8 tsp + 1/16 tsp comment confused me (assuming it just gives what 1 ml is), so went down the Chat GPT route. Good to know the correct numbers.

Yes will plan on doing things as you suggested. I probably will go into mixing macros/micros myself at some point but for now wanted to start with AIO (All in one - i had to google it! ). How do you come up with a target No3 PPM ? I am sure there are multiple posts with this, but just wanted to get a rough estimate. I understand that there are several schools and some like to run the tanks at 0, but in a densely planted tank with no hardscape - Dutchish what is the range that people look for ? Is it 5-10 for Lean, 20-30 for EI ? I might go in-between at 15.

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

I probably will go into mixing macros/micros myself at some point

I know it seems daunting for a beginner but it is much easier than you expect. But I completely understand the wanting to use a AIO to start. Heck i did a few years ago and it took me a while to grasp dosing my own but once you do its a game changer.

How do you come up with a target No3 PPM ?

Honestly? Depends on your approach or what route you want to go through. I currently only know EI methods and dose as such. But if you look at true dutch they are dosing much less. I originally picked a well known dutch scaper, Ie Burr, Greggz or Unexpected even and based off that and modified to my liking and have settled on 30:10:40 N:K for the past year. Its just works for me and each tank seems to be dependent. Theres no real "golden" target.

The other thing you'll find is that you could completely mimic someones dosing across the board and you wont be able to grow the same plants. I've personally seen it. There is so much at play in these little ecosystems that we create and with that there is much more than I care to understand. I am pretty deep into it but you can only go so deep.

 

[Sb1415]

Thank you. Much appreciated. If I calculate based on the 2hr aquarist based on the recommended dosing on their calculator (0.3 ml/10 L/day) i would do 6.2 No3 PPM per week. This seems like a good starting point for me and will just increase over the weeks/months. So target No3 PPM of around 6. Overall seems stability is important, and will try to keep it around that number.

Will plan to do something similar with the APT 0 based on K ppm; for the first few months when i set up the tank with APT feast.

 

[BenB]

The 2hr Aquarist site provides guaranteed analysis by % also has note for why they provide % instead of PPM but i am confused as to the rationale as to why one would not display the PPM breakdown on the website as well.

I will take a stab at this part since others much better than me are helping you with the dosing part.

I think the main reason is that out side of us hard core forum type nerds, the majority of people who buy this stuff just want to know how many squirts per X gallons. They have no idea how many ppm they need anyway. It's a low bar to overcome, but you could assume it's also an effort to keep the formula a secret, but again, I think most people who use it aren't interested in trying to replicate it.

 

[SkaleyAquatics]

I will take a stab at this part since others much better than me are helping you with the dosing part.

Ill really hope you are not talking about me lol.

 

[BenB]

Ill really hope you are not talking about me lol.

My apologies for speaking highly of your intelligence.

 

[techman81]

Up to now, I had just been dosing APT 3 on estimates from bottle directions and what I thought my water volume was. After calculating a more precise water volume (40 gallons) and using the calculators on 2HR Aquarist, turns out I was pretty close. I was dosing 4ml per day and doing a 25 to 30 percent water change weekly. The calculator recommends 4.5ml per day. I was thinking about going to EI but think I'll stick With APT 3 for now, at least until it runs out. Will probably bump the water change percentage up.