Mr.Shenanagins
Well-known Member
I’d argue the Ovalis pink shot up even more, clearly they like the chowder.
Journal Dutchy Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
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- #82
Aaand still havent trimmed, other than to yank a few of this and that. Youll notice there's a few random bunches of other stuff just sitting around for the time being
Havent done a water change either, this one or the 75p beside it. Dont tell anybody but I sometimes go two weeks between water changes, ten days, however it happens to work out. For dosing what I usually do is skip the 7th and 8th day, then start back dosing both every other day. Keeps a pretty rich water column, Im not worried about any "build up." But the tank has to be running smooth and be clean to begin with, and all the plants healthy to pull this off. Not recommending this as a routine for anybody, its just what I do sometimes
Tulu, Meta, Type-4, and the Kochi down low are all weighted and bunched at the bottom, just chillin for a few days
Here's the 75p right beside it. Hodgepodge of scraps right now mostly
The Myrio Gold was laying over the surface. I did just pull that up and pinch off the bottom. Other than that havent touched it in about to be two weeks
Ludwigia white's not complaining in this tank, out of focus a little it looks like
Thats all for now!
Havent done a water change either, this one or the 75p beside it. Dont tell anybody but I sometimes go two weeks between water changes, ten days, however it happens to work out. For dosing what I usually do is skip the 7th and 8th day, then start back dosing both every other day. Keeps a pretty rich water column, Im not worried about any "build up." But the tank has to be running smooth and be clean to begin with, and all the plants healthy to pull this off. Not recommending this as a routine for anybody, its just what I do sometimes
One of the fastest in here for sure. I just mowed it down to stumps, will sort it out later
Tulu, Meta, Type-4, and the Kochi down low are all weighted and bunched at the bottom, just chillin for a few days
Here's the 75p right beside it. Hodgepodge of scraps right now mostly
The Myrio Gold was laying over the surface. I did just pull that up and pinch off the bottom. Other than that havent touched it in about to be two weeks
Ludwigia white's not complaining in this tank, out of focus a little it looks like
Thats all for now!
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GreggZ
Moderator
Joe I love posts like this. Every so often I post a pre trim and post trim picture of my tank. Well, more than a trim, more like Edward Scissorhands in the tank for an hour.
It shows others that the "glamour" shot is just a snapshot in time, and reinforces the dedication and time it takes to keep a tank like this looking good. "keep your sleeves" wet is not just a saying. It's a way of life with a high tech tank full of stems.
And BTW everything is looking great. What are the targets you are trying to keep in the water column these days?
It shows others that the "glamour" shot is just a snapshot in time, and reinforces the dedication and time it takes to keep a tank like this looking good. "keep your sleeves" wet is not just a saying. It's a way of life with a high tech tank full of stems.
And BTW everything is looking great. What are the targets you are trying to keep in the water column these days?
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- #84
Thanks Gregg. I dont really have targets in mind, per se. I can tell you approximately whats in my water but its not a number I try to hit. I also dose for whole tank volume as you know
I tend to think in terms of dosage. Example my macro solution adds 4.5/1.2/6 per dose. I know that with 50-60% water changes I need 2 (occasionally 3) doses post water change and then 2 more through the week. Thats a weekly total of 18/4.8/24, not a target weekly total just what it happens to be with the number of doses I know it takes to keep things happy. Micros same way, 3 doses of .15 Fe per week, sometimes 4
So you could say my weekly target are 18/etc, and if anybody asks thats what Id say or might recommend. But I just think of it as 4 doses. Utterly simplistic, I know lol
GreggZ
Moderator
So with 50% water change that equates to about 36/10/48 target in the water column.
Funny I just checked mine and right now am at 40/12/50. A bit higher than I have been but I can't help changing things slightly just to see what happens.
Unexpected
Well-known Member
How do you decide or more importantly, what indicators do you see when deciding the extra doses?
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- #87
Thats a good question. Macros usually if a tank is really full like the Dutch is now. Or if a picky species start to pout a little bit, say a few tulu get stunty, wallichii types, anything that stunts really, or say the center of syns get a little pale which they are prone to do. A little more macros almost always fixes it
Micros can usually just tell when certain plants get a little pale. Stunting can be low micros too. Generally ime, stunting with poor color (pale) is usually low macros. Stunting with good color is usually low micros. Stunting with intensely deep color is usually too much micros
I know thats not a very definitive answer but I really dont have one. Kinda just look at the whole picture and see what plants are doing what
Unexpected
Well-known Member
Makes sense, I’ve seen a few of what you mention. Definitely with the Syns.
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- #89
Trim and water change time, its been 21 days now since the last one. Still dosing every other day with both macro and micro. Ive pulled probably two dozen Lud meta and Kochi out for sales, mainly when they hit the surface and needed to go, and a few other things. Other than that havent really trimmed at all
Here's some Meta I pulled out thatd been laying over the surface for a few days. Closed up for the night but the tops are still in really good shape, and huge
Finally starting to see a couple issues, not surprising after 3 weeks
GSA on the front glass, its concentrated across the top half of the glass in about 8"' wide strip
Second thing is 4-5 Syn macrocaulon have gone yellow in the center. If they just go a little pale they can usually recover. But when they're yellow like this, borderline melty, the top will never get right. The plant has abandoned the top and now directs its energy to making new side branches that are better adapted
I wouldnt attempt to even guess what caused it. Something built up or ran out probably. I dont test much, but out of curiosity I checked the tds and also NO3
Thats an API liquid test. About all it can tell you is if there's none, some or a lot. This shows there's a lot, all I was wondering is if it was bottoming out
TDS is surprisingly in its normal range, expected it to be a little high. It usually runs betwee 250-300. Straight out of the tap is 95-110. I dont focus much on tds really. There's both good and bad things involved. Thats just what mine happens to be
So these are just observations. There's nothing to solve or fix, its just time for some maintenance. So lets get to it..
Here's some Meta I pulled out thatd been laying over the surface for a few days. Closed up for the night but the tops are still in really good shape, and huge
Finally starting to see a couple issues, not surprising after 3 weeks
GSA on the front glass, its concentrated across the top half of the glass in about 8"' wide strip
Second thing is 4-5 Syn macrocaulon have gone yellow in the center. If they just go a little pale they can usually recover. But when they're yellow like this, borderline melty, the top will never get right. The plant has abandoned the top and now directs its energy to making new side branches that are better adapted
I wouldnt attempt to even guess what caused it. Something built up or ran out probably. I dont test much, but out of curiosity I checked the tds and also NO3
Thats an API liquid test. About all it can tell you is if there's none, some or a lot. This shows there's a lot, all I was wondering is if it was bottoming out
TDS is surprisingly in its normal range, expected it to be a little high. It usually runs betwee 250-300. Straight out of the tap is 95-110. I dont focus much on tds really. There's both good and bad things involved. Thats just what mine happens to be
So these are just observations. There's nothing to solve or fix, its just time for some maintenance. So lets get to it..
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- #90
Right now I just want to get everything that needs it trimmed back so it can regrow nice. I didn't bother with plants that didn't actually need trimming for growth/health reasons. I'll get those next week and reign the scape in a little better. This was actually a pretty quick maintenance trim
Rotala macrandra Kochi and Ludwigia super red I mowed down to stumps. Kochi I stuck a few tops back down in the group. L red just leaving the stumps, they'll come back out pretty fast and thick. I tried to give the stumps the same contour I want the group to have as it gets taller
Back right you can see Hygrophila balsamica about to break the surface
Once it gets going balsamica throws lots of side brances from the lower nodes. Makes it real easy to create a full bush. Next pic shows where I cut the top just above a couple new stems
Ludwigia Meta I just reached my hand back there and pinched them all off leaving the stumps. They'll come right back out. I did plug a few tops back in there. They'll outrun the new branches and have to be shortened again
Blyxa red not looking good at all. Its lost all color and looks like it might even be trying to melt. Idk whats up with that, we'll see
Hygro 53B is still in great shape so overall I know things are still pretty good. In sand it is a very quick indicator if a macro(s) gets low
Done
Acmella I just topped the ones in back that were at the surface. I'll redo that whole street in a week or two. Left the Syn macrocaulon as is, just to watch what happens. Probably have to replace the bad ones
I wish AGA would come out with some dates...
Rotala macrandra Kochi and Ludwigia super red I mowed down to stumps. Kochi I stuck a few tops back down in the group. L red just leaving the stumps, they'll come back out pretty fast and thick. I tried to give the stumps the same contour I want the group to have as it gets taller
Back right you can see Hygrophila balsamica about to break the surface
Once it gets going balsamica throws lots of side brances from the lower nodes. Makes it real easy to create a full bush. Next pic shows where I cut the top just above a couple new stems
Ludwigia Meta I just reached my hand back there and pinched them all off leaving the stumps. They'll come right back out. I did plug a few tops back in there. They'll outrun the new branches and have to be shortened again
Blyxa red not looking good at all. Its lost all color and looks like it might even be trying to melt. Idk whats up with that, we'll see
Hygro 53B is still in great shape so overall I know things are still pretty good. In sand it is a very quick indicator if a macro(s) gets low
Done
Acmella I just topped the ones in back that were at the surface. I'll redo that whole street in a week or two. Left the Syn macrocaulon as is, just to watch what happens. Probably have to replace the bad ones
I wish AGA would come out with some dates...
Unexpected
Well-known Member
Dude, I’ve been looking everywhere for balsamica and can’t find it. Sure enough you have it. I don’t know why I just don’t ask you for everything 
.
I think I grabbed Synmacrocaulon from you and moved it into the new 40 I set up with Landen. And man the tops are looking real white. I’ve been afraid to dose the tank so I’m real lean there. Maybe the new sub sucking the PO4 heavily? Who knows. Maybe I should up the Macros.
Looking good overall man! AGA needs to say something, jeez.
Edit: Madiera
.I think I grabbed Syn
Looking good overall man! AGA needs to say something, jeez.
Edit: Madiera
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Mr.Shenanagins
Well-known Member
I’m thinking I wana jump on the Meta train too, what an excellent grower and great colors!
Also the 53B is such a great plant, the light greens and slender leaves really standout so nicely in the Dutch layout.
Also the 53B is such a great plant, the light greens and slender leaves really standout so nicely in the Dutch layout.
Marwen
Community Member
Same here. I love reading about Joe's horticulture and thought process. Much to learn.
GreggZ
Moderator
Me too!
I've known Joe for many years.
When I need to bounce something off someone he's the first person that comes to mind.
I read his original journal many times over which helped shaped the way I approach my tank. And still learning from him to this day!
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- #96
Here's a video of my entry. I started it exactly 2 weeks from the deadline, which isnt as bad as it sounds if you already have the plants. I'll post some start-to-finish progress pics shortly, but wanted to drop this vid here along with my own comments and critiques before the judge's come out. (seriously whats the hold up with the full results and comments??)
This is basically copy/paste of what I wrote on fb a week ago so a lot of you guys have already read it
This is basically copy/paste of what I wrote on fb a week ago so a lot of you guys have already read it
Although it didn't crack the Top 3, I feel like I improved on a couple issues that have plagued my entries so far, having good depth and fullness
Creating depth has always been a big challenge for me. Its easy to create depth with hardscape, not so easy with just plants. It takes some real 'gardening' skills and Ive never really nailed it. Even the ones that placed 1st or 2nd never had very good depth. I managed to improve a little bit with this one
My previous ones have also felt a little sparsely planted (to me at least). This one feels full, maybe even too full.
But it does have scoring issues
1. Its 1 or 2 species over the limit. Dimensions are 30"x18"x18" (37 gal) Ideally there should be 8-9 species max, I have 11. The double curtain on the left with the Blyxa added an extra one. And the judges may count the Microsorum as one, or worse a repeated double. In my mind the Microsorum is all one wall plant, like having moss on the sides and back. But since I brought it down as a curtain it could easily be counted the other way
2. Too many reds. Three days out my blue bulb popped (ati purp). All I had to replace it was a super flora. Without the blue there's an overdose of red in the light, which makes the Kochi look red, instead of yellow like it really is. That made for a lot of reds next to each other right there
3. Unwanted symmetry. The Purple Bacopa turned into a quasi-street that mirrors the main Penthorum street. Looks like two backwards commas pointing at each other down low. It was one of those things thats not so obvious in person but really jumps out in a picture
4. Stems groups the same size and the same shape, and stacked directly behind each other. More unwanted symmetry
These are all big no-no's when it comes to scoring. There's a few other things I wont get into. Can probably read about those when the judges comments come out(g)
In spite of all that its one of the favorite entries Ive made just for the depth and fullness of it. Id like to say a big thank you to everyone at AGA for their hard work. I know this year was expecially challenging with the change in format
One other thing re: the new format. There wasnt a separate field to add a plant diagram or 'floor plan' picture (nor instructions to include one) I went back and forth on whether to use one of the two 'additional' slots for one, but wound up going with views from the left and right instead. Not sure what the other entrants did, but in retrospect I probably should've included it.
Creating depth has always been a big challenge for me. Its easy to create depth with hardscape, not so easy with just plants. It takes some real 'gardening' skills and Ive never really nailed it. Even the ones that placed 1st or 2nd never had very good depth. I managed to improve a little bit with this one
My previous ones have also felt a little sparsely planted (to me at least). This one feels full, maybe even too full.
But it does have scoring issues
1. Its 1 or 2 species over the limit. Dimensions are 30"x18"x18" (37 gal) Ideally there should be 8-9 species max, I have 11. The double curtain on the left with the Blyxa added an extra one. And the judges may count the Microsorum as one, or worse a repeated double. In my mind the Microsorum is all one wall plant, like having moss on the sides and back. But since I brought it down as a curtain it could easily be counted the other way
2. Too many reds. Three days out my blue bulb popped (ati purp). All I had to replace it was a super flora. Without the blue there's an overdose of red in the light, which makes the Kochi look red, instead of yellow like it really is. That made for a lot of reds next to each other right there
3. Unwanted symmetry. The Purple Bacopa turned into a quasi-street that mirrors the main Penthorum street. Looks like two backwards commas pointing at each other down low. It was one of those things thats not so obvious in person but really jumps out in a picture
4. Stems groups the same size and the same shape, and stacked directly behind each other. More unwanted symmetry
These are all big no-no's when it comes to scoring. There's a few other things I wont get into. Can probably read about those when the judges comments come out(g)
In spite of all that its one of the favorite entries Ive made just for the depth and fullness of it. Id like to say a big thank you to everyone at AGA for their hard work. I know this year was expecially challenging with the change in format
One other thing re: the new format. There wasnt a separate field to add a plant diagram or 'floor plan' picture (nor instructions to include one) I went back and forth on whether to use one of the two 'additional' slots for one, but wound up going with views from the left and right instead. Not sure what the other entrants did, but in retrospect I probably should've included it.
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SkaleyAquatics
Active Member
I am worried that there will not be Judge's comments, with them not being displayed on the top tanks of each category im glass half empty we will be getting them.
It's funny how you brought this up as I just noticed it is actually yellow and not pink/red. In my farm tank with a week aqua its pinkish red/gold but in the non co2 cube its actually a greenish yellow. But when I moved a few stems over it was yellow under the chihiro's light.
In regards to the tank, I thought you did excellent in the depth department. I have also studied your past entries so much if they posted all the pictures without names I would've been able to pick yours out. You have a distinct style and it shows in your entries. (I think its your ability to mix shades of red plants next to each other.)
While this was my first entry I was disappointed by only 1 additional photo. When I submitted I had included the layout but I hit enter trying to create a new line and it submitted the entry before I was finished entering the details of the aquarium, seems like a glitch in hindsight.
Also did you see the unedited photo the second place dutch entry showed for verification? He had lowered the tank's water level before cropping and that left me in disbelief a bit. Since originally Dutch tanks were judged in person and this did not portray the tank correctly. I am curious to what your thoughts are on it.
OmidNiav
Active Member
Regarding the AGA and comments and the rest of the entries: This year was a huge struggle for the ones involved. The transition to the new system/website was very challenging for them to get done quickly and efficiently due to personnel changes.
@SkaleyAquatics where are you seeing the unedited photo of the 2nd entry?
@SkaleyAquatics where are you seeing the unedited photo of the 2nd entry?
SkaleyAquatics
Active Member
The contestant posted extra photos on a Facebook post. It was originally cross-posted on one of the planted groups I am in and you are in but I cannot find it crossed-posted so here it is: 2nd Place Photos
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- #100
Ive heard people bitching about the 2nd place tank but its a pretty good dutch. Needs better space between groups, and a little more contrast in heights.
Im really surprised at the first place tank. The back stem groups are all equal rectangles and also the same height all the way across the back. There's no midground to speak of, no focal point at all. Honestly I dont see how in the world it scored higher than the 2nd or 3rd place tanks. Like I seriously cant wrap my brain around that lol
@OmidNiav 's is good too. The one big mistake is the grass to the right of the macrandra being in front of another green, it essentially disappears. Also its very similar to the curtain beside it. Two big no-nos right there. Imo that probably cost you a place or two whether the judges mention it or not
Personally Id put the 1st in 3rd place and move the other two up. Then itd be a close scorecard between those two
Im really surprised at the first place tank. The back stem groups are all equal rectangles and also the same height all the way across the back. There's no midground to speak of, no focal point at all. Honestly I dont see how in the world it scored higher than the 2nd or 3rd place tanks. Like I seriously cant wrap my brain around that lol
@OmidNiav 's is good too. The one big mistake is the grass to the right of the macrandra being in front of another green, it essentially disappears. Also its very similar to the curtain beside it. Two big no-nos right there. Imo that probably cost you a place or two whether the judges mention it or not
Personally Id put the 1st in 3rd place and move the other two up. Then itd be a close scorecard between those two
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