Journal DDio's 120U

[DDio]

Greetings everyone!

Rather than going into my background in this thread, I'll take you through my build history from acquiring the tank, building the stand, all the way through today, with all of the ups, downs, and sideways issues. I posted an introduction of who I am in the introduce yourself area.

Initially when I moved last year, I decided I wasn't going to set up the reef tank that I had going for almost a decade. It was actually the only tank that remained out of 3 reef tanks I had going at one time. I experimented with a planted nano (30C) and it went well so I decided to tackle the one type of aquarium I've always wanted - a big planted tank.

I began searching and knew what I wanted....a 5 foot long tank, 24" wide and 18-24" high. Initially I wanted a 125 gallon until seeing one in person at the local Petsmart. The extra foot would have still fit in the spot I had picked out, but the lack of width was something I couldn't get over. It would present a big challenge as far as aquascaping, so I crossed that off my list. I started looking at SC Aquariums and they had a tank that met exactly what I was looking for in a 5 foot tank. The only issue is that it had an overflow. The reason this was an issue for me is that one day I'd wind up with too much time on my hands and turn it into another reef tank. I really didn't want that to be a potential issue down the road so I continued searching.

I stopped by my LFS and began telling him what I was looking for and he checked his distributer's inventory online and said that they had one UNS 120U in stock and that it would probably sell pretty quickly. I handed him my CC and that moment is how I've ended up here lol.

The tank arrived and thankfully someone mentioned buying glass moving suction cups for actually moving the tank because without them, it wouldn't have been possible to get the tank into my basement.

I was going to post pics of the stand build and other stuff but it seems that the forum won't allow images larger than 3mb so rather than resizing a bunch, I'll just stick to resizing full tank shots and include dates.

I did the typical overbuilding the stand thing since that was pretty much what everyone did in the reef world. The top was butcher block from HD that was sized perfectly for the tank.

My initial plan was to acquire everything slowly over time so that I wasn't dropping too much cash at once, and for the most part I followed this, but probably purchased everything I needed about twice as fast as I imagined.

Now would probably be a great time to list my equipment:

Tank: UNS 120U
Stand: DIY
Lighting: Twinstar 1200 SP on UNS light brackets
Filtration: Green Leaf Aquariums 15L stainless steel canister and an Oase 850 BM Thermo with two sets of lily pipes, one with a surface skimmer attached to the Oase in order to leverage the pre filter. Both filters are packed with 3/8" pumice
Heating: Oase heater included with 850, connected to an Inkbird controller
CO2: GLA Dual Stage Regulator with two 10lbs CO2 tanks (one running and one on standby) driven through a NilocG Griggs reactor 24". The reactor is fed from the outflow of the GLA canister filter. The solenoid is controlled by a Milwaukee controller.
Substrate: Pool filter sand
Hardscape: about 80 or so pounds of dragonstone and two very large spider wood pieces.
Ferts: DIY using NilocG ferts: KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, and CSM+B
Water changes: roughly 80% weekly using tap. Will be switching to 50/50 tap and RODI soon.

When Memorial Day weekend hit, I decided to set the tank up since the stand was finished. Well, that wasn't the exact plan, but after getting a hand from a cousin moving the stand in place, shimming it, and then setting the tank onto the stand, I started getting the uncontrollable urge to set it up.

Here was about a week's worth of playing around with the scape until I was happy with it:



This pic is from May 30th and I literally filled it with water and managed to get all the equipment hooked up.

My plan at this point was to cycle the tank without fish or plants in it.

After the first day, the tank became cloudy. Then each day following that first cloudy water day, the tank became more and more cloudy. It was actually a little concerning.

I continued dosing ammonia to feed the Fritz Zyme Turbo Start that was recommended to me by my LFS.

A few weeks in and the tank still wasn't cycling as quickly as it should have been so it was at that point that I was convinced to go ahead and order plants and get the tank planted.

The tank finally cycled so I added two dozen Harlequin Rasbora and ten Otocinclus. A couple weeks later I added another 10 Otocinclus. A few weeks after that I added 4 reticulated siamese algae eaters. I didn't add any other creatures to the tank until about 2-3 weeks ago when I added 3 mystery snails and 3 zebra nerites.

The tank was running as expected for a new setup, going through the ugly stage, the GSA stage, and everything in-between. The only thing I didn't have was BBA which was somewhat surprising.

When the GSA problem popped up, I upped my dosing of PO4. It took a couple weeks but eventually the GSA stopped. You can still see it on some of my bucephelandra and other slower growers, but it's not spreading any longer.

After that the tank was just sort of cruising along. I was dosing, doing my weekly WC's and was pleased with the tank.

Roughly around the beginning of September I came down with Covid so I couldn't do my weekly water change. What I noticed was that during that second week, all the plants started looking angry. Rotala were showing signs of stunting. The Pogostemon Helferi Downoi that was growing extremely healthily began looking terrible where the leaves were basically turning into thin needles. The only plants that didn't seem to care were the Bucephalandra.

I did my water change, almost 90% and nothing seemed to help. The helferi weren't recovering.

So I went down a few different rabbit holes trying to figure out what the issue was.

I also had an issue with very long filamentous algae growing almost exclusively in my moss. I still have this problem and will be removing the moss completely from the tank.

But before taking you down the rabbit holes, let me post a pic of the tank upon first planting:

7/6/22



Now the last FTS prior to getting Covid and the issues beginning to appear.

9/7/22:



You can see how great the helferi looked at this point.

And here is what it looked like after it went downhill.

10/24/22



Here is the most recent FTS from last night:

 

[DDio]

Ran out of characters for the last post so continued:

So the changes I made since the previous image were removing four large pieces of dragon stone behind my spider wood, moving all Rotala to the left side, and adding Limnophila Hippuridoides to the right side. I cut off the stunted helferi growth since I saw new growth emerging, but it hasn't done much since first seeing it about a month ago. There are also some other plants moved around a bit. That last bit of moss will be going soon because you should be able to see some long filamentous algae streaming off left of the moss.

My PAR readings are 90-100 at substrate level in the center and back, and in the front center I'm at 85 and in the 60's in front left and front right.

The Montecarlo hasn't really done much as far as growing and just sort of always looks like that.

Now back to the rabbit holes I went down.

When I began seeing issues after that week of being down with Covid, the very first thing I did was run some tests.

PH, ammonia, nitrite, NO3, PO4, GH, KH, TDS....basically every test kit I had.

The results were as follows on 10/24/22:

PH: 6.6 (degassed tap is 7.6). I checked after this reading because it should have been 6.4 and my probe needed calibration
Ammonia and nitrite: 0
Nitrates: 50ppm
PO4: well over 10ppm
KH: 7
GH: 9
TDS: 250

I kept my temp at 73.4 degrees. I've since raised it to 75 degrees since the room the tank is in tends to get a bit warmer in the winter. Things have been looking better and the fish have been more active since raising the temp a bit.

The very first thing I focused on was PO4. It was astronomically high. I stopped dosing KH2PO4 at that point and just continued doing WC's. If fell to 3-4ppm and suddenly I started seeing GSA on the glass again so I began dosing it again.

The next thing to check was PAR so I borrowed my local club's meter and lighting didn't really seem to be the issue.

I read that iron toxicity could explain what I was seeing when the stunting occurred so I just bought an Fe test kit. Ran the tests last night and here is where I'm at:

Nitrates: 25ppm
PO4: 6ppm
K: 30ppm
Fe: 0.5 mg/l

So it wasn't Fe.

I also realized that I was dosing far too large a dose having just used the NilocG recipe on their website. After using the Rotala Butterfly calculator I should have been dosing exactly half.

To this day the only thing I can think of being the cause of that issue is some sort of toxicity since I skipped a water change but continued dosing, basically at 2X what I should have been dosing.

Aside from those issues, the tank has been doing great. My only issue is the long filamentous algae that seems to mainly be affecting the last remaining moss. I'll be removing that and hopefully that issue will be resolved.

I'm hopeful that in the next month or so I can get my RODI hooked up and plan on doing a 50/50 mix of tap and RODI. My tap water isn't too bad and I figure I'll drop my K down to 3.5 or so and my GH to 4.5 and that should be good for what I'm doing.

The next plan for this tank is to eventually get it completely free of algae, and moving some plants around here and there. I was hoping that the MC would carpet, but it just seems like it doesn't want to so I may remove it entirely and use it for my nano tank.

 

[Art]

Dom - first, thanks for taking the time to write up the Build Thread. Follow the suggestions in the Build Thread notice post to get a user banner under your name that links to this post. That way people can just click it and get here.

I'm looking into the attachment limitation and see what I can do to make it more user-friendly. The size limit is there to help keep the site moving quickly for people, especially since the majority visit us on their phones.

On your build, congrats! Beautiful tank and I absolutely love the equipment. I've never had a large tank and am so envious at the space you all have. My next one will be big!

To be honest with you, I've used a pool sand substrate once and it was a complete disaster for me. The pool sand is so fine that it tends to create a barrier between the substrate and the water column making the exchange of water slow at best. This led to anoxic zones that turned on me and created a very unfavorable environment for plant roots, especially my carpet plants. Your mileage may very though.

Are you running carbon at all? In a relatively newer tank, I like to run carbon intentionally when I have issues I can't explain, such as a sudden plant issue or algae. Resetting with a large water change, like you did, of course is also advisable.

Your nutrients look OK to me so I wouldn't expect a toxicity issue. In my experience, toxicity is a rare occurrence. However, it would be good if you used Gregg's Fertilizer Regime template and posted it. Some of us use it to keep things clear for ourselves and also to share a lot of information quickly on our setups.

Please keep the updates coming. This tank should fill in beautifully!

 

[GreggZ]

I also realized that I was dosing far too large a dose having just used the NilocG recipe on their website. After using the Rotala Butterfly calculator I should have been dosing exactly half.

To this day the only thing I can think of being the cause of that issue is some sort of toxicity since I skipped a water change but continued dosing, basically at 2X what I should have been dosing.

You've got a few things going on with micros that could be a problem.

First of all are you dry dosing the CSM+B? If so that can cause issues. CSM is created in huge vats and it meant to be mixed with 1,000's of gallon of water and sprayed on crops. Then someone takes a handful from that huge vat and adds some Boron (B) to it to make it CSM + B. Have you ever noticed how you can swirl it around and you see light/dark streaks? That's because it's not mixed well enough. The odds of you getting the ratio's you want in each tsp measure is very unlikely. And an overdose of certain micros (like Boron) can wreak some havoc on a tank.

So if you keep using it I would make a large solution to help make the doses more uniform.

Next is the type of Fe that CSM + B uses. It's EDTA. The clelating agent is best for tanks whose pH is 6.5 and below. For tanks like yours with 7 dKH you'd be better off with DTPA. You can add some DTPA to the mix to cover the bases better.

And how much exactly are you dosing? Many people have issues when dosing too much CSM+B into tanks at your pH/dKH. At one time EI was recommending 5 ppm weekly. That was way too much. Then it went to 2 ppm weekly, which can still be too much. Think more like 0.5 Fe as proxy weekly.

The other option is to use a custom micro mix. If you want to learn more here is a link to an article I recently wrote about them.

Journal - Greggz 120G Rainbow Fish Tank - Part Deux!

Where have I seen that forum banner before? :unsure: ...and stop teasing me with the Cabomba F. (inside joke)

scapecrunch.com

 

[DDio]

Dom - first, thanks for taking the time to write up the Build Thread. Follow the suggestions in the Build Thread notice post to get a user banner under your name that links to this post. That way people can just click it and get here.

I'm looking into the attachment limitation and see what I can do to make it more user-friendly. The size limit is there to help keep the site moving quickly for people, especially since the majority visit us on their phones.

On your build, congrats! Beautiful tank and I absolutely love the equipment. I've never had a large tank and am so envious at the space you all have. My next one will be big!

To be honest with you, I've used a pool sand substrate once and it was a complete disaster for me. The pool sand is so fine that it tends to create a barrier between the substrate and the water column making the exchange of water slow at best. This led to anoxic zones that turned on me and created a very unfavorable environment for plant roots, especially my carpet plants. Your mileage may very though.

Are you running carbon at all? In a relatively newer tank, I like to run carbon intentionally when I have issues I can't explain, such as a sudden plant issue or algae. Resetting with a large water change, like you did, of course is also advisable.

Your nutrients look OK to me so I wouldn't expect a toxicity issue. In my experience, toxicity is a rare occurrence. However, it would be good if you used Gregg's Fertilizer Regime template and posted it. Some of us use it to keep things clear for ourselves and also to share a lot of information quickly on our setups.

Please keep the updates coming. This tank should fill in beautifully!

Thanks!

This is the first attempt with sand and one of the main things I don't like about it is how it compacts. In the reef world we usually add critters that keep the sand stirred up, like brittle stars, but the only sand sifters in planted tanks seem to be limited to assassin snails, which if you have snails that you want to keep are a horrifically bad idea to add, or rabbit snails which bring their own issues nibbling on plants, or Malaysian trumpets which can get out of control really quickly.

While this might just be coincidence, the issues started right after I added Purigen. Up to that point I had been running carbon, but swapped the carbon for Purigen, and then when the problems began thinking it's the only thing that I had changed I removed it and used carbon instead. The last time I opened my Oase I actually removed the carbon completely. I may add it back in later this month when I have the Oase opened up again for full maintenance. I figured I'd remove it and see if anything changed.

Prior to the tank issues I had been dosing at 2X on everything, but I admit I'm not sure at what level you'd start seeing negative effects. The one thing I really should have not abandoned when I made the switch from reef to planted was testing. I used to test and tweak things I dosed in my reef tank to hit the levels I needed. When I started up the planted tank I sort of just followed EI where testing wasn't required. I've since abandoned that mindset and brought back a bit more testing.

The person I borrowed a PAR meter from at my local club recommended that I use root tabs under any large masses of plants even though I'm dosing EI. I haven't put a lot of thought into that but I may consider using tabs if it'll help.

I'll check out that template and make use of it for sure, thanks!

 

[DDio]

You've got a few things going on with micros that could be a problem.

First of all are you dry dosing the CSM+B? If so that can cause issues. CSM is created in huge vats and it meant to be mixed with 1,000's of gallon of water and sprayed on crops. Then someone takes a handful from that huge vat and adds some Boron (B) to it to make it CSM + B. Have you ever noticed how you can swirl it around and you see light/dark streaks? That's because it's not mixed well enough. The odds of you getting the ratio's you want in each tsp measure is very unlikely. And an overdose of certain micros (like Boron) can wreak some havoc on a tank.

So if you keep using it I would make a large solution to help make the doses more uniform.

Next is the type of Fe that CSM + B uses. It's EDTA. The clelating agent is best for tanks whose pH is 6.5 and below. For tanks like yours with 7 dKH you'd be better off with DTPA. You can add some DTPA to the mix to cover the bases better.

And how much exactly are you dosing? Many people have issues when dosing too much CSM+B into tanks at your pH/dKH. At one time EI was recommending 5 ppm weekly. That was way too much. Then it went to 2 ppm weekly, which can still be too much. Think more like 0.5 Fe as proxy weekly.

The other option is to use a custom micro mix. If you want to learn more here is a link to an article I recently wrote about them.

Journal - Greggz 120G Rainbow Fish Tank - Part Deux!

Where have I seen that forum banner before? :unsure: ...and stop teasing me with the Cabomba F. (inside joke)

scapecrunch.com

Yep, I see exactly what you're talking about when I mix up my ferts each week.

My process is I have 6 small Tupperware cups. I add the macros to three of the cups and then the micros to the other three, fill with water, shake them, and then let them dissolve. By the time I dump the container into the tank, the ferts have dissolved into solution. You make a great point though because when I look at the dry ferts, you can see that they're not really uniformly mixed.

I'd definitely be open to trying a different mix. At this point it can't hurt and if suddenly the issues resolve themselves, then it'll be apparent what the cause was.

I was dosing 1/2tsp three times a week of CSM +B. I've since cut that in half. I think this is why I started thinking that perhaps there was a toxicity issue when I skipped a water change the week I was sick, but continued dosing. I was dosing 2X for two straight weeks without a water change to reset.

I couldn't tell you what my Fe levels were when I was dosing 1/2 tsp, mainly because I didn't have an Fe test kit but received one on Friday and promptly tested since the tank had a full week's worth of dosing. I was at 0.5mg/l so I imagine dosing twice as much I probably was somewhere between .5 and 1mg/l.

I'll definitely check out the article you've linked, but if you were to recommend a micro mix off GLA or NilocG's website that I could order in the meantime, I'll go ahead and get it ordered and then start reading up on creating custom micro mixes. Admittedly my ignorance level is quite high, but I pick up pretty quickly.

ETA: the one bummer is I have 4 lbs of CSM+B lol. I can always sell it though, or just figure out how to use it outside for my outside plants.

 

[GreggZ]

I'll definitely check out the article you've linked, but if you were to recommend a micro mix off GLA or NilocG's website that I could order in the meantime, I'll go ahead and get it ordered and then start reading up on creating custom micro mixes. Admittedly my ignorance level is quite high, but I pick up pretty quickly.

ETA: the one bummer is I have 4 lbs of CSM+B lol. I can always sell it though, or just figure out how to use it outside for my outside plants.

I would read the article first then decide what you want to do. Like many things in this hobby it depends on now far down the Rabbit Hole you want to go. Both the mixes you mentioned have CSM+B as the base, so they are about the same. Both offer a mix where they add some DTPA which would help with Fe uptake.

FYI my friend @Burr740 (Joe Harvey) sells prepacked custom mixes that might be a good solution. If you reach out to him he can tell you more.

 

[DDio]

I would read the article first then decide what you want to do. Like many things in this hobby it depends on now far down the Rabbit Hole you want to go. Both the mixes you mentioned have CSM+B as the base, so they are about the same. Both offer a mix where they add some DTPA which would help with Fe uptake.

FYI my friend @Burr740 (Joe Harvey) sells prepacked custom mixes that might be a good solution. If you reach out to him he can tell you more.

Haha, I kind of beat you to the punch. As soon as I began reading your article I had immediately decided that custom was definitely the way to go.

I'm about midway through it and I'm sure I'll have a few questions. I appreciate the help!

 

[DDio]

I would read the article first then decide what you want to do. Like many things in this hobby it depends on now far down the Rabbit Hole you want to go. Both the mixes you mentioned have CSM+B as the base, so they are about the same. Both offer a mix where they add some DTPA which would help with Fe uptake.

FYI my friend @Burr740 (Joe Harvey) sells prepacked custom mixes that might be a good solution. If you reach out to him he can tell you more.

Hopefully I can remember all the questions I had as I read through the article, but here are the ones that immediately came to mind:

• Where can I source the supplies?
• What PPM should I target for each of the minerals?
• On Rotala Butterfly, I'm getting a "null ppm" for Zn, Cu, Mo, and Ni. I checked the other calculator and it looks like there's a requirement for Windows and aside from my work laptop which is pretty much locked down, I don't have a windows partition on my Mac. Would there be another way of searching for the correct dosages of those minerals?

This definitely seems the way to go though. I like being able to tailor what I'm dosing based on my specific tank versus relying on a mix that may not be all that well mixed.

 

[Burr740]

I read your name as DeeDee, that's my girlfriend's name lol

There is no resource for dosing the lesser micros. You will have to copy a brand or a formula to get in the ppm ballpark and go from there. Use rotala butterfly to see whats in Tropica or csmb or whatever. Calculate for EI it'll show you what everything else is at .2 ppm Fe

Can source the supplies on ebay or amazon. Search the chemical formula + 1 lb, which will be 10 lifetime's worth of some things but it'll pull up the right products not vitamin supplements

I do sell DIY kits that comes with a few years worth, each compound in a little jar and a storage case for all of it. But Im not trying to sell it to you

Honestly I think you're a little green at this point to be making your own micros. If you do it, do it to save money. DONT do it so you can tweak Mn levels and see what happens. A person needs to already be running a well balanced tank and know how to get back to it before playing with individual micro levels

Focus on the basics of cleaning and pruning. Get your co2 rock solid. Pick a fert routine and stay with it. Every little thing that happens is not fert related

This plant stunts, algae over here, usually 10 things it could be besides ferts

If your PH stays in the 6s or below csmb can work just fine. Just always make a solution instead of dry dosing. Grab some DTPA Fe and spike it 2:1. By that I mean take the Fe in your csmb dose and add 50% of that in dtpa Fe. If you really wanna get fancy add 3x more Zn

On the other hand if your PH is up in the 7s most of the time then csmb isnt going to work very well due to the edta Fe chelate. It starts to break loose around 6.5

 

[DDio]

I read your name as DeeDee, that's my girlfriend's name lol

There is no resource for dosing the lesser micros. You will have to copy a brand or a formula to get in the ppm ballpark and go from there. Use rotala butterfly to see whats in Tropica or csmb or whatever. Calculate for EI it'll show you what everything else is at .2 ppm Fe

Can source the supplies on ebay or amazon. Search the chemical formula + 1 lb, which will be 10 lifetime's worth of some things but it'll pull up the right products not vitamin supplements

I do sell DIY kits that comes with a few years worth, each compound in a little jar and a storage case for all of it. But Im not trying to sell it to you

Honestly I think you're a little green at this point to be making your own micros. If you do it, do it to save money. DONT do it so you can tweak Mn levels and see what happens. A person needs to already be running a well balanced tank and know how to get back to it before playing with individual micro levels

Focus on the basics of cleaning and pruning. Get your co2 rock solid. Pick a fert routine and stay with it. Every little thing that happens is not fert related

This plant stunts, algae over here, usually 10 things it could be besides ferts

If your PH stays in the 6s or below csmb can work just fine. Just always make a solution instead of dry dosing. Grab some DTPA Fe and spike it 2:1. By that I mean take the Fe in your csmb dose and add 50% of that in dtpa Fe. If you really wanna get fancy add 3x more Zn

On the other hand if your PH is up in the 7s most of the time then csmb isnt going to work very well due to the edta Fe chelate. It starts to break loose around 6.5

I'm definitely not interested in tweaking specific ferts to see what happens.

My goal would be to know exactly what I'm dosing. On the macro side, I can do that, but on the micro side aside from knowing what my Fe levels are at, it's kind of a shoulder shrug because the mix may not be mixed very thoroughly and one component is inadvertently being dosed well beyond what is actually needed.

Having spent a decade with an SPS dominant reef tank, with all of the gadgets you'd expect on that sort of setup, tweaking things and making adjustments to dosing isn't something outside of my wheelhouse, but given the fact that most of the micros can't really be tested for in FW, unless I'm willing to send water samples off to a lab, or spend inordinate amounts of money on lab grade test kits, I'd mainly just want to understand a baseline for how many grams of X I need to add into the container and what amount I should be dosing, and then observing update of Fe to increase the dose uniformly across the board. Basically I'm looking to dummy proof this as much as possible because experimentation is not something I'd have an interest in.

Saving money is a great bonus, but I'm more focused on making sure I know that what I'm dosing into my tank is for sure what it's supposed to be.

I guess it can be analogous to another one of my hobbies - competitive shooting. That's a very expensive hobby, and precision is required so you can't really buy off the shelf ammunition and expect it to perform well out of your particular firearm because quality control standards are all over the place. If you load your own ammunition you can tweak everything to maximize the performance out of a specific firearm. Basically I can take a box of ammo I've loaded myself and I know exactly how it's going to perform and know exactly where it'll hit based on the calculations I've made and adjustment to the scope turrets. I can get it down to single digit standard deviations on velocity. So CSM +B is more or less factory ammunition and I'm looking to load my own so to speak so that I can guarantee that the quality control is excellent and I know exactly what is being dosed into my tank.

Hope that makes sense. If you don't mind PMing me the details of your kit, that would be great. It sounds like a much better option than buying more than I'd ever need.

 

[DDio]

Quick update:

Before the water change, I went ahead and got rid of the remaining moss and trimmed the H Pin next to the moss pretty aggressively. Hopefully with what appears to be the source of the long string algae gone, that issue will fade away.

I trimmed the longer stems and replanted the tops. Eventually I'll start getting rid of the older growth once I've been able to trim and replant enough healthy growth. The older growth is what was affected by the stunting issue, which can still be seen when viewed up close.

I may try to source some more crypt parva and some smaller anubias to tuck into various spots.

I'll try to get an updated FTS this evening since the removal of moss really seems to have changed the look a bit.

CO2 tank is somehow still running. We're basically at 6 months on a 10lbs tank which is amazing. I wouldn't at all be surprised if I have to replace it by this weekend though, but then again I thought I'd have swapped the tank out months ago. The needle still hasn't budged, so I'm going to wager a guess that it needs to be replaced by Saturday. When I maintained my GLA filter a week or so ago I actually was able to lift the regulator and tank with one arm, while bent over inside my stand. I can't do that with a full tank.

The Rotala orange juice and blood red on the left side have really started to color up after the water change and put on noticeable growth in just a couple days. Could my issues have resolved themselves? I guess we'll see over the coming weeks.

 

[GreggZ]

CO2 tank is somehow still running. We're basically at 6 months on a 10lbs tank which is amazing. I wouldn't at all be surprised if I have to replace it by this weekend though, but then again I thought I'd have swapped the tank out months ago. The needle still hasn't budged, so I'm going to wager a guess that it needs to be replaced by Saturday.

That is a LONG time for #10 tank with a tank that large. For reference I go through a #10 tank on my 120G in about 10 weeks.

You said earlier your dKH was 7. I would expect your degassed pH to be about 7.8. What pH are you dropping to via CO2 injection?

And when the meter starts to move it goes quick. It won't move at all until it's pretty close to empty.

The Rotala orange juice and blood red on the left side have really started to color up after the water change and put on noticeable growth in just a couple days. Could my issues have resolved themselves? I guess we'll see over the coming weeks.

Plants love a water change! And sure just lowering micros could have had an effect as well. One of the tricky things in this hobby is having patience. The worst thing people do is to change too many things at once. After each change it takes time to observe what if any effect there is. You may be seeing that now which is a good thing.

 

[DDio]

That is a LONG time for #10 tank with a tank that large. For reference I go through a #10 tank on my 120G in about 10 weeks.

You said earlier your dKH was 7. I would expect your degassed pH to be about 7.8. What pH are you dropping to via CO2 injection?

And when the meter starts to move it goes quick. It won't move at all until it's pretty close to empty.


Plants love a water change! And sure just lowering micros could have had an effect as well. One of the tricky things in this hobby is having patience. The worst thing people do is to change too many things at once. After each change it takes time to observe what if any effect there is. You may be seeing that now which is a good thing.

My degassed water is at 7.6 and my controller shuts the power to the solenoid when it hits 6.4.

Typically when the CO2 kicks on for the day, the ph is still at 7.1 so it hasn't fully degassed.

It really does blow my mind how long it has lasted. On a 46 gallon tank I was getting like 2 months out of a 5 lbs tank but it was obviously at a much lower injection rate.

I assumed like 3-4 months but I think what's happening is that because I set the needle valve to full potato, when the solenoid is open it's injecting a lot of CO2 into the reactor and the tank hits the target PH pretty quickly, and then shuts off. But when it does shut off, there's a whole lot of CO2 dissolving in the reactor, sort of maintaining the PH for a long period. It turns on around noon and typically takes about 3-4 hours to hit 6.4, and then the lights come on about an hour afterwards. I think the CO2 kicks on throughout the photoperiod like 3-4 times. I'm thinking of getting my old Apex's firmware updated and using it instead of the Milwaukee controller since I can control everything rather than just the CO2, and it'll give me some data to look at as it logs PH, how many times the CO2 kicks on, etc.

I honestly don't think the tank will make it to the end of the week. It basically felt empty 2 weeks ago and is somehow still running.

I definitely didn't exercise patience trying to figure these issues out. I went down several rabbit holes at once and tried a few different things, so if the problem is resolved I won't really know which change caused it, if any. The only thing I can really do is continue doing what I'm doing without making any more changes.

 

[JPog]

Dom I think we touched on the chelating agent thing over at TPT. I was mentioning that I use the GLA mix that contains both agents since my tap PH is 7.5 and my gassed PH is around 6.3 so I just use that one to cover myself. @GreggZ has far more experience with micro mixes than I do so I would defer to him if you want to dot all your i's and cross all your t's if that could e the issue.

Usually it's not ferts that ails a tank, especially when your growing plants that are not known to be extremely sensitive. The beauty of EI to me is not really worrying too much about what the actual levels are. Big water changes, consistency is usually the best approach. I think algae issues play a bigger role than people think as they interfere with plant growth before we even see the algae. No better way to rid the tank of algae and have pristine water than to have a multitude of healthy stems. Keep thickening up the back as the algae will have a harder and harder time competing.

 

[DDio]

Dom I think we touched on the chelating agent thing over at TPT. I was mentioning that I use the GLA mix that contains both agents since my tap PH is 7.5 and my gassed PH is around 6.3 so I just use that one to cover myself. @GreggZ has far more experience with micro mixes than I do so I would defer to him if you want to dot all your i's and cross all your t's if that could e the issue.

Usually it's not ferts that ails a tank, especially when your growing plants that are not known to be extremely sensitive. The beauty of EI to me is not really worrying too much about what the actual levels are. Big water changes, consistency is usually the best approach. I think algae issues play a bigger role than people think as they interfere with plant growth before we even see the algae. No better way to rid the tank of algae and have pristine water than to have a multitude of healthy stems. Keep thickening up the back as the algae will have a harder and harder time competing.

Agreed. I think the reefkeeper in me makes me somewhat hardheaded and I want to do everything possible to eliminate variables, and know exactly what kind of uptake I have, and dose enough for uptake, plus a buffer. It's taken me a while but it seems like a waste of time to treat this in the same manner as my reef tank.

I still haven't figured out what caused the issue that started me down the path of insanity. I was chatting with my buddy and he said "maybe your plants had Covid too"

Heck at this point anything is possible lol. I'm just glad it's recovering.

 

[BigWave]

I have been eying these 120U tanks. I'd have to sell about 6 of my current ones and then build up hardware for this big boy though.

 

[BigWave]

I have been eying these 120U tanks. I'd have to sell about 6 of my current ones and then build up hardware for this big boy though.

 

[Art]

Agreed. I think the reefkeeper in me makes me somewhat hardheaded and I want to do everything possible to eliminate variables, and know exactly what kind of uptake I have, and dose enough for uptake, plus a buffer. It's taken me a while but it seems like a waste of time to treat this in the same manner as my reef tank.

I still haven't figured out what caused the issue that started me down the path of insanity. I was chatting with my buddy and he said "maybe your plants had Covid too"

Heck at this point anything is possible lol. I'm just glad it's recovering.

Dom - the gear and control freak in me loves the reef side because it does allow me to go down those rabbit holes. It's great fun.

You'll find that some things do carry over from salt to planted tanks. Other things are a waste of time and, frankly, end up in wild goose chases that lead nowhere.

I think many of the good habits carry over and should be encouraged. For example, testing may not be as crucial in planted aquariums as it is with reefs because we're not trying to maintain alkalinity, pH, temp, NO3, PO4 within tight recommended ranges. However, over time, you realize that it does benefit you to know the ranges your tank runs at. Some, for example, pH drop is a key indicator for dialing in your CO2.

I love this thread and all the discussion because it's really showing the value that a build thread can bring to someone, and the community, and how difficult this would be to do on social media. Love it! I wish more people, especially beginners, saw the value in this and posted their builds.

 

[DDio]

Dom - the gear and control freak in me loves the reef side because it does allow me to go down those rabbit holes. It's great fun.

You'll find that some things do carry over from salt to planted tanks. Other things are a waste of time and, frankly, end up in wild goose chases that lead nowhere.

I think many of the good habits carry over and should be encouraged. For example, testing may not be as crucial in planted aquariums as it is with reefs because we're not trying to maintain alkalinity, pH, temp, NO3, PO4 within tight recommended ranges. However, over time, you realize that it does benefit you to know the ranges your tank runs at. Some, for example, pH drop is a key indicator for dialing in your CO2.

I love this thread and all the discussion because it's really showing the value that a build thread can bring to someone, and the community, and how difficult this would be to do on social media. Love it! I wish more people, especially beginners, saw the value in this and posted their builds.

I love reef tanks so much that I purposely bought this tank because drilling it would be difficult due to the weight and needing to ask people for help, so I'm far less likely to turn this tank into a reef tank at some point down the road. If I want another reef tank, I'll just need to buy another tank and set it up as a reef because a planted tank is something that I want to make sure I always have. I missed having one all the years I spent with reef tanks.

I think at a certain point you can pull back on constantly testing. PH is definitely important if you're running CO2 and not using a PH probe of some kind, like if you're not using a controller. If you're using a probe and controller, cleaning and recalibrating the probe monthly is the way to go to make sure that the probe doesn't drift too much. But once the tank is mature, you can test everything else monthly. I know some folks never test at all, but things can go wrong quickly, and you can likely have discovered an issue had you at least tested once a month.

Depending on what type of reef you're running, the frequency of testing can vary. A softie tank you can be more lax on than an SPS heavy tank. I'll likely set a reef tank up again when I have more surplus funds. I have a custom acrylic cube someone local built for me about a decade ago that is still shrink wrapped lol. I probably won't use it and instead look for something that's 36"X24"X18H.

The discussion in threads like this is what I love about forums over social media. I think beginners, especially if they're coming from FB groups would be slightly intimidated solely due to the fact that they've probably experienced trolls commenting on their posts. Hopefully they'll realize that forums aren't really troll friendly lol.