Journal Consistency Deficiency (Part 2)

[Hufsa]

"Cheesy Announcer Voice: Back by popular demand" No, no..
"New and Improved Recipe: Now with 23% less consistency" Ergh..
I havent gotten any better at writing the first post of a journal

Ill just go with a FTS taken the other day
The tank is still recovering from a pretty drawn out moving process, so its having "some" instability while it re-matures.
Many of the plants took a big hit. I lost some species, and the others are still getting back on their feet and used to the new water source.
It has been pretty gnarly.
First a thick pea soup green water stage where you couldnt see more than a centimeter or two into the water column (thats about half an inch in freedom units).
After that a pretty hefty round of various other algae types and cyanobacteria..
Some of the classic blue-green, some suspiciously vibrant green slime algae, some blackish cyanobacteria-like stuff, some very fuzzy green fluff and also BBA too just to top it all off Several of these algae types ive hardly had before, so at least I get to challenge myself with something new..?

The tank still has a way to go, especially with some of the plants condition, but at this point I can at least share a picture without entirely too much embarrassment



Some brief tank details:
250 liters / ~66 us gal. (although water volume closer to 215-220 L)
Lights: Two Fluval 3.0 currently at 100%
Equipment: Will sort some more thorough details later
Substrate: Plain sand
CO2: Yes. PH monitor not up and running, so been keeping things in roughly the right area by feel, aiming for a fairly yellow lime green.
Ferts: DIY, both macros and micros. Details to come
Livestock: Still living in a plastic tub across the room

Plants:

Spoiler: Oh hell yeah

Plants labeled in the picture:
Ammannia pedicellata 'Golden'
Anubias barteri var. nana 'Mini Coin'
Bacopa australis
Bacopa caroliniana "Colorata"
Bacopa madagascariensis
Bacopa salzmannii "Purple"
Blyxa japonica
Bolbitis heteroclita var. cuspidata
Bolbitis heudelotii
Bucephalandra sp. "Brownie Ghost 2011-2012"
Cryptocoryne cordata var. siamensis "Purpurea Dennerle"
Cryptocoryne parva
Cryptocoryne sp. (Amicorum Aquafleur)
Cryptocoryne spiralis "Cook's Form" ("Cooksche Form")
Cryptocoryne spiralis 'Red'
Cryptocoryne spiralis (Aquafleur)
Cryptocoryne x willisii "lucens"
Cryptocoryne x willisii "nevillii"
Eriocaulon sp. "Japan Needle Leaf"
Hemianthus glomeratus
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Hydrocotyle tripartita "Mini"
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Hymenasplenium obscurum
Limnophila aromatica cf. Green/Wavy
Limnophila rugosa
Lobelia cardinalis 'Mini'
Ludwigia glandulosa
Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba'
Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Meta'
Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Pantanal'
Ludwigia palustris "Green"
Ludwigia polycarpa
Ludwigia sp. 'Marilia'
Ludwigia sphaerocarpa
Lysimachia nummularia (green)
Microsorum pteropus 'Trident'
Myriophyllum sp. 'Guyana'
Pogostemon helferi
Pteridophyta sp. "Niah"
Rotala macrandra "Mini Type 4"
Rotala rotundifolia "Blood Red Singapore"
Rotala rotundifolia 'H’ra'
Rotala rotundifolia 'Orange Juice'
Rotala rotundifolia Pink(Green)
Sagittaria subulata
Schismatoglottis prietoi
Tonina fluviatilis
Vallisneria asiatica

Not labeled or very visible in photo:
Bucephalandra Moss
Bucephalandra sp. "Blue Green"
Bucephalandra sp. "Pearl Grey"
Bucephalandra sp. "Silver Grey"
Callicostella prabaktiana
Crepidomanes sp. "Javanicus"
Crepidomanes sp. "Vietnam II"
Crepidomanes sp. "Vietnam III"
Cryptocoryne "Queen Vandom"
Cryptocoryne striolata "Mini"
Cryptocoryne yujii
Didymoglossum sp. "Buea Goliath"
Fissidens fontanus "Phoenix Moss"
Fissidens sp. "Mallorca"
Fissidens sp. "Miroshaki"
Hookeriaceae sp. "Rare/Hooker Moss"
Hydropogonella gymnostoma "Queen Moss"
Hygrophila pinnatifida "Uttara Kannada"
Lomariopsis cf. lineata "Susswassertang"
Plagiochilaceae sp. "Cameroon Moss"
Riccardia sp. "graeffei"
Vesicularia sp. "Mini Christmas Moss"
Vesicularia sp. "Tortoise"

Looking forward to getting to know peeps here on Scapecrunch as well as catch up with old buddies

 

[Yugang]

I am super excited to see you start a thread @Hufsa , we have missed your updates for way too long now. I am not going to try and describe why I loved your Consistency Deficiency Part 1, but let me just say: everybody fasten your seatbelts!

 

[Burr740]

Lookin good! Glad to see you make a journal here

Are you meticulously pruning side branches off that rugosa or by some miracle is it growing like that?

 

[ElleDee]

Hufsa! Hufsa! Hufsa! *the crowd goes wild*

Seriously though, I'm so excited for your new journal. What a treat!

How does your new water compare to your old water?

Also, seeing them all written out I don't think I have truly appreciated what a big collection of plants you have! So many! Juggling that many taxa is no joke and it looks great, especially considering the big disruption. I see there are a few problem children in there, sure, but you'll straighten them out.

Sorry if this is corny to ask, but what's your vision for your tank?

 

[Jhardee85]

Glad to see another Ammania doing well.

 

[Hufsa]

Are you meticulously pruning side branches off that rugosa or by some miracle is it growing like that?

No miracle here unfortunately ..Its a branching beast
The growth habit requires quite some regular wrestling to keep the illusion of a civilized plant. At a point the leaves were growing so large I was afraid I might have to evict it from the tank, but the ferts balance seems to have shifted a bit away from the "massive leaves" point and now its at least managable again

Im trying my best to stay on top of trimming the tank, the production of plant mass per week is getting completely out of hand and im wondering if Ill need to find a controlled means of slowing it down.
Some of the stems like the Pantanal you guys see in the photo hit the surface of the water and were left for a few days too many before being replanted back down. So theres emersed form leaves on on the middle crown that had breached, and the left hand one was starting to transform too. I dont like how some of the stem plants look if replanted after growing on the surface for too long. The rotundifolias are another example where letting them get too tall spurs the plant to make a lot of aerial roots and sideshoots, which makes replanting and tidying up the groups a lot more work.

How does your new water compare to your old water?

Mostly worse More GH, a smidge more KH, more Na, more Cl.
I had a pretty good feel for what worked and didnt work on the old water supply, but when I moved it was like I could sense the rules shift ever so slightly. Like the rulebook was being rewritten and the plants werent responding quite the same way to things as before.
The decision to go over to RODI has already been made, hoping to get that sorted as soonventually as possible.
Im tried of carefully adjusting the KH down with acid for every water change, and when I move again at some point in the future I would like to not have another shift in the rules to adjust to.

Also, seeing them all written out I don't think I have truly appreciated what a big collection of plants you have! So many! Juggling that many taxa is no joke and it looks great, especially considering the big disruption. I see there are a few problem children in there, sure, but you'll straighten them out.

Glad to see another Ammania doing well.

...Yeah
The Ammannia is a bit of a pet project at this point. Previous pet project was getting the Pantanal to behave, which it does do now
Its definitely true that once it grows well enough its pretty uncomplicated and the only issue that remains is that it grows too fast now
But im still stringing the poor Golden along to see if theres any point where it doesnt rather wish it was dead (It got its second top down trim just a few days ago, which is why its so tiny now). Im avoiding disturbing the root system and rather just trimming it back when needed. It doesnt grow very fast and doesnt really die or anything, the leaves are just hideously scrunched
My tank is definitely more tailored towards the hungry greedy species.
The Golden seems to be one of the worst Ammannias when it comes to pickiness. I can get behind the growing consensus on them just not being good with a lot of ferts in the column (and especially not in inert sub). Im tempted to get a few of the less picky species to see if they are equally as unhappy or if they can act as a mid ground for slight improvements.

Sorry if this is corny to ask, but what's your vision for your tank?

Good question
The style of the tank is definitely in collectoritis territory at the moment. I loosely follow some of the dutch rules when it comes to plant placements though. At first the rules could seem arbitrary and strict, but I feel like a lot of them really allow the plants to shine and stand out, to look their best.
So moving things around to adjust for color balance with neighbors, leaf shape contrast, green color hue contrast, while also taking into account growth habits and how often they need trimming is an ongoing process that I dont think ever finishes.
I would like to shift the look of the tank more towards a blend of collectoritis and jungle. I have a bad habit of putting everything in groups despite really liking a wilder look to placements. Spreading some plants out in smaller groupings, blending things together more and reducing the amount of flowery looking stems will probably help. Ive leaned pretty heavily on the stem plants lately and have had larger groups of very fast growing plants to help the tank power through the imbalances. The ferns were pretty near death earlier this year, but they are coming around now. Once they gain full size again I think that will help moderate the garden look as well

 

[Unexpected]

How cool is this? Love to see you here. Can’t wait for juicy information coming our way. Welcome!

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

Lord bless you and anyone else who has that many stems to look after, I just can’t fathom lol

 

[Jhardee85]

...Yeah
The Ammannia is a bit of a pet project at this point. Previous pet project was getting the Pantanal to behave, which it does do now
Its definitely true that once it grows well enough its pretty uncomplicated and the only issue that remains is that it grows too fast now
But im still stringing the poor Golden along to see if theres any point where it doesnt rather wish it was dead (It got its second top down trim just a few days ago, which is why its so tiny now). Im avoiding disturbing the root system and rather just trimming it back when needed. It doesnt grow very fast and doesnt really die or anything, the leaves are just hideously scrunched
My tank is definitely more tailored towards the hungry greedy species.
The Golden seems to be one of the worst Ammannias when it comes to pickiness. I can get behind the growing consensus on them just not being good with a lot of ferts in the column (and especially not in inert sub). Im tempted to get a few of the less picky species to see if they are equally as unhappy or if they can act as a mid ground for slight improvements.

Yes golden has proved to be the worst in my tanks as well. Senegalensis has been slightly more forgiving, but not by much. It’ll give you a good false sense of security but kick your legs out from underneath you the second you turn around.



It started doing better the moment I switched to straight RO. Surprisingly these are not in substrate, just bound with a cotton ball and a weight.

 

[GreggZ]

@Hufsa good to see you here. That's a LOT of plant species to keep happy at one time.

I am really looking to following along and here about your current methods.

Keep the updates coming!

 

[ElleDee]

Mostly worse More GH, a smidge more KH, more Na, more Cl.
I had a pretty good feel for what worked and didnt work on the old water supply, but when I moved it was like I could sense the rules shift ever so slightly. Like the rulebook was being rewritten and the plants werent responding quite the same way to things as before.
The decision to go over to RODI has already been made, hoping to get that sorted as soonventually as possible.

Ah well, RODI should be a nice upgrade!

Im tried of carefully adjusting the KH down with acid for every water change, and when I move again at some point in the future I would like to not have another shift in the rules to adjust to.

I keep thinking about utilizing acid to drive down pH and increase CO2 availability, but I don't think I've got it in me to add another step to my maintenance. Especially one with safety considerations.

Good question
The style of the tank is definitely in collectoritis territory at the moment. I loosely follow some of the dutch rules when it comes to plant placements though. At first the rules could seem arbitrary and strict, but I feel like a lot of them really allow the plants to shine and stand out, to look their best.
So moving things around to adjust for color balance with neighbors, leaf shape contrast, green color hue contrast, while also taking into account growth habits and how often they need trimming is an ongoing process that I dont think ever finishes.
I would like to shift the look of the tank more towards a blend of collectoritis and jungle. I have a bad habit of putting everything in groups despite really liking a wilder look to placements. Spreading some plants out in smaller groupings, blending things together more and reducing the amount of flowery looking stems will probably help. Ive leaned pretty heavily on the stem plants lately and have had larger groups of very fast growing plants to help the tank power through the imbalances. The ferns were pretty near death earlier this year, but they are coming around now. Once they gain full size again I think that will help moderate the garden look as well

I really should look up the dutch rules sometime. I tend to be like, "Oh, lots of strict rules? No thank you, not for me!" but I bet if I looked at them as optional advice I could learn something. (It's not like I hate dutch tanks, I just don't want to do it myself.)

Along those lines, I have the opposite problem to you where doing groupings is hard and I really just tend to stick stuff everywhere. Even when it looks like I have a grouping in a picture it's a lie. Oh, that stand of bacopa? Surprise, there're an underlayer of crypts in there. I am trying to be more disciplined for my next build and strike a balance, but we'll see how that goes.

You've definitely got a lot of great material to experiment with. You should move a couple of stems somewhere you wouldn't normally and see what happens.

 

[Hufsa]

Oh deary me. Not very good journal keeping to write one post and then promptly disappear for two months

Things have been hard, ill just put it plainly. My health has been worse than what im used to dealing with, and ive been so very fatigued. I havent been able to keep up with the tank despite my best attempts, maintenance and all sorts of care has been very sporadic. Shamefully I havent even been able to feed the fish regularly For the last couple of weeks Ive avoided being in the same room as the tank, because seeing the state of it and being completely unable to muster the energy to do anything about it made me feel so sad and completely powerless.
In the spirit of "warts and all" and with commiseration for others who have periods of time where they arent able to do much for their tanks, ill share the few photos ive taken the past two months.
This is the reality of the hobby too.
Things dont always look "Instagram worthy", and life tends to happen whenever it pleases.
The ferts ran out at some point, I dont remember when, and then the CO2 too.


Attempt 1 at getting things under control, late july

Ran out of steam during the process and couldnt finish all the trimming and maintenance or do the water change, but it felt good for a little while to have managed to deal with some of it.

But the plants grow way too fast and it wasnt long until things needed attention again.



Attempt 2 about a week later. Some of the previously untrimmed plants were already growing out of the water or covering the surface.



Then I got quite a lot worse and the tank was left until now, a month later.


The fastest growers monopolized the surface and made it hard for a lot of the other plants to compete.
At some point even the green thread algae seems to have died off en-masse, which is kinda impressive in a silver lining sort of way..
Some of my plant species are very near deaths door, I might have lost some, I havent checked them all yet.
Others are clinging to life. The typical "low tech" plants like the crypts and ferns have done ok in the gloom under the monopoly canopy of L.Marilia/Rotalas, and look relatively decent all things considering. Especially when taking into account the complete lack of most of the ferts.

It seems like ive managed to get my head above water again now, so im tackling the task of getting things sorted out, one baby step at a time.
I removed what felt like kilos of the floating canopy plant mass last night, and tackled a very clogged filter intake and spray bar today. Water was barely trickling out of the left hand external.
I hope I can keep at this and ill try my best to share some updated photos as things progress.

One thing is clear, I need to slow the roll of this tank. I thought very seriously about selling everything and quitting the hobby for good a couple of weeks ago. But the sorrow of losing all of the things I enjoy about the hobby made it hard to make a final decision, so I ended up just avoiding to make one. But I want to keep this hobby. I will need to make some changes.
Right now im thinking of reducing greatly the amount of stem plants, and placing most of those species in emersed mini greenhouses where they will require less care. They can live in the bathroom where the air will warmest during winter, at a window plus a grow lamp. Then they can exist there until such a time when/if I might have the capacity(and desire) for nosebleed-style tank again.
Ive reduced the light to 50%. Since the CO2 ran out at least a week ago, probably more, and well, the plants that arent dying could seem to have made the transition already?
So maybe I keep going with non-CO2. Or maybe I do a moderate amount, I dont know yet.
But I need to bring the maintenance requirements of this tank way wayy down.
So we'll see what that ends up looking like

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

I can’t necessarily relate to the health aspect, I sincerely hope things are turning around health wise. However, I do understand how life takes over and the tank becomes a burden rather than a positive part of your life. I think mentally being able to get out from under the dark cloud and persevere is important and this hobby for sure tests your ability to do so. I’m glad you’re attempting to find a solution rather than throw in the towel, I believe posts like this are important and encouraging for others on the fence with their endeavors. No one said this was easy right? Although some make it certainly look that way!

 

[Yugang]

So sorry about your health issues @Hufsa , hopefully autumn will bring you further improvement.

Regarding your tank, even if it does not get much attention it is really interesting to see what it is doing. How much can be learned when we just let the tank solve its issues, let the plants compete and cope as in nature, see what happens and be surprised.

I am hoping that you will keep us updated, your posts are always worth it.

Stay strong!

 

[Art]

Things have been hard, ill just put it plainly. My health has been worse than what im used to dealing with, and ive been so very fatigued. I havent been able to keep up with the tank despite my best attempts, maintenance and all sorts of care has been very sporadic. Shamefully I havent even been able to feed the fish regularly For the last couple of weeks Ive avoided being in the same room as the tank, because seeing the state of it and being completely unable to muster the energy to do anything about it made me feel so sad and completely powerless.
In the spirit of "warts and all" and with commiseration for others who have periods of time where they arent able to do much for their tanks, ill share the few photos ive taken the past two months.
This is the reality of the hobby too.
Things dont always look "Instagram worthy", and life tends to happen whenever it pleases.
The ferts ran out at some point, I dont remember when, and then the CO2 too.

I'm sorry you went through this. I can certainly relate as I went through this earlier this year. It's reality and sometimes the tank has to take a back seat. It's OK.

The good thing is that you can bring things back with some elbow grease and patience. Glad to see you're doing that.

My solution was more automation and leaning on family when I can't be there.

 

[ElleDee]

I hope you feel better, @Hufsa! I relate deeply to your avoiding the tank you've let go. It is tough having a monument to how difficult life is at the moment sitting in your house, to feel the pain of your enjoyable hobby distort into a source of grief. But you are right - it is part of the hobby for a lot of us. There's no shame in changing things up so it matches your current energy level. It's just hard to enjoy yourself when there's a big discrepancy between the two.

As you know, my tanks were neglected for most of 2023 and when I came back to it I really came to treasure the plants that made it through that period of neglect. Some people get snobby about easy plants, but it is absolutely incredible what they can put up with! What survivors! They took care of themselves when I was unable to and you know, I am grateful for them.

Hang in there!

 

[Hanuman]

One thing is clear, I need to slow the roll of this tank. I thought very seriously about selling everything and quitting the hobby for good a couple of weeks ago. But the sorrow of losing all of the things I enjoy about the hobby made it hard to make a final decision, so I ended up just avoiding to make one. But I want to keep this hobby. I will need to make some changes.

Selling a tank or simply just shutting it off doesn't mean quitting the hobby forever. Things can be definitive but they don't have to be if you don't want to.

I know for a fact that selling my 90cm tank and not being able to get a new one was somewhat a relief because although it's fun and all to care of a tank, it is also work and time consuming. It's been over a year now. Do I miss it sometimes, sure, will I get one another day, probably, but this is not a race against anyone or myself so I don't pressure myself. I also have other priorities at the moment. I still keep a smaller tank with virtually no plants where all my fish are + ~50 baby mofos L144 since their parents decided to have sex without my explicit authorization.

You just have to do things as they come. If that means letting go or shutting down your tank because you are sick, busy or just don't feel like keep taking care of it, then do it. I might sound like the devil, but you're suppose to enjoy the hobby not feel it's a burden.