CO2 Distribution

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@Art All great insights.

I mentioned the tank safety aspect just to say I need it to fit in the stand. I have a 5# on a 29G currently. I haven’t built the 75’s stand yet so unsure if it will fit 10#, but I’ll do whatever can fit. As you said, little curious kids with access to a tank is a recipe for some level of disaster.

Your take on CO2 makes perfect sense regarding gas exchange at the plant surface. I’m curious your take on the inline diffusers and a 75G as some are concerned a 75 is at the cusp of too big for good distribution. While certainly not opposed to a reactor, I like the “elegant” solution of the inline. So long as there’s flow I don’t see an advantage to a reactor vs inline return from a canister. Both are responsible for infusing CO2 into the water and then trying to get that water throughout the tank…maybe I’m missing something. Perhaps it has to do with surface area for gas exchange??

I love the look of Lilly pipes. However, what’s the advantage to them vs say running the inlet through a spray bar? One of the canisters mentioned was an Eheim 2217 which comes with the spray bar. If an inline diffuser is used from the canister through a spray bar, would that not also distribute the CO2 well? Again, perhaps I’m missing a key piece.

Thanks for the advice!
 
ncsuben said:
I love the look of Lilly pipes. However, what’s the advantage to them vs say running the inlet through a spray bar
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Typically lily pipes are placed on the narrow end of a tank sending flow down one long side and coming back down the other long side.

Problematic with store bought lids.

I opt for a glass lily pipes are intake with a surface skimmer and, a spray bar. I like the flow characteristics.
 
Count Krunk said:
Certainly use a heater controller vs relying on the heaters.


Not to throw a wrench in your plans but have you considered a sump? 🙂
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Wow, 31% off too. Nice!
Inkbird ITC-306A WiFi Temperature Controller, Wi-Fi Aquarium Thermostat Heater Controller 120V~1200W Temperature Control with Two Probes only for Heater Aquarium Breeding Reptiles Hatching. Amazon.com
 
@Unexpected @Count Krunk
Thanks for catching that one. I grabbed that 306A, I liked the double heating and two prove location.

As for a sump….thats not in the cards with the stand we repurchased or at our stage of the game haha.

Also…the holiday budget is WAY blown at this point….but still going to iron out these CO2 details.
 
ncsuben said:
@Unexpected @Count Krunk
Thanks for catching that one. I grabbed that 306A, I liked the double heating and two prove location.

As for a sump….thats not in the cards with the stand we repurchased or at our stage of the game haha.

Also…the holiday budget is WAY blown at this point….but still going to iron out these CO2 details.
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I just bought one too for a failure backup. I have them on all my tanks.
 
I'll also add these FYI statements. I speak from true experience here. The biggest mistakes I made when getting into the hobby was not getting the good equipment first. I've wasted hundreds of dollars not buying good equipment up front. Examples, buying 5 HOB filters that now sit unused, buying 4 Fluval 3.0 lights which were eventually sold and had to buy better lighting. Buying 2 CO2Art and 1 GLA regulator when I could have bought 2 budget Alan Le regulators.

I know you want to stay in budget, but the saying, buy once cry once seems to hold true in this hobby. Especially when you are rolling into a CO2 tank. I'm sure you're eager to get going, but delaying your start is an option if you need to stack some extra coin. All the canister filters mentioned above will give you nearly 2 decades of service. Just keep this in mind. It's not 100% necessary, but will eliminate so many issues you may run into.
 
@Unexpected Thanks for that and that pretty much summarizes my approach.

The tank was somewhat an impulse “Ok we can go bigger.” Which then snowballed into “Well if we’re gonna do that then we should….” on repeat.

I’m all about value for money, not necessarily cheapest. We’re fine to get this thing off the ground with good equipment. However, I’m just trying to avoid overspending for unnecessary luxuries. My experience with all hobbies (guitars, cameras, aquariums, etc) is you hit a sweet spot that beyond it you experience a diminishing rate of return on your investment. I like finding that spot and being just behind it.

My current thoughts are inline CO2 diffuser vs reactor. I watched an interesting video () of an attempted experiment at reactor vs inline diffuser vs direct in tank diffuser. I completely understand there are many variables in what this guy did that could not be held constant and would influence the results. Interestingly the inlined performed best for him.

So that’s where I’m at now: reactor vs in line, and waiting to find the right canister at the right price. Apparently I missed a wicked good sale at bulk reef supply on the eheim…out of stock now. Holiday deals are also why this is all moving much more quickly than initially thought.
 
@Unexpected @Yugang

The yugang reactor appears the way to go. There’s a good chance I’ll have to build it so that much of/all of the reactor is visible. I saw Aqua Rocks Colorado has both a clear and stainless version on sale for Black Friday.

This begs the question: self built vs purchased?
 
ncsuben said:
@Unexpected @Yugang

The yugang reactor appears the way to go. There’s a good chance I’ll have to build it so that much of/all of the reactor is visible. I saw Aqua Rocks Colorado has both a clear and stainless version on sale for Black Friday.

This begs the question: self built vs purchased?
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Up to you. You saw the video. Personally, the clear ARC reactor is sexy. And I like sexy. But building it is cheap.
 
ncsuben said:
Haha fair enough! I was just making sure there weren’t design differences that may be a concern. Leaning toward a self-built simply for the fun of a hands on project.
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Always happy to help @ncsuben , although @Unexpected and several others now have a lot of experience and are there for support as well. Send me a pm for any detailed questions.

EDIT: Just watched the video. The key is that Marc adjusts the CO2 injection, and does not calibrate CO2 flow between experiments. He suggests he does an 'experiment', with CO2 Art being the winner with an inline diffuser, while the design of the experiment is entirely inadequate, as is the take away after 16 minutes of watching.
 
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Pepere said:
If a canister filter is a bit of a stretch budget wise initially, you could opt for an Under Gravel filter.
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I place mesh bags of Safe T Sorb which is a fired clay product with high Cation Exchange Capacity filled about 3/4 of an inch directly on the plates and a 2 inch cap of BDBS on top.
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@Pepere I also use UGF, so you aren't the only one! i have plates under half of my 55g. That way I can use root tabs on the other half. Interesting your use of safe-t-sorb in mesh bags over the plates. I might have to try that sometime.
 
ncsuben said:
Haha fair enough! I was just making sure there weren’t design differences that may be a concern. Leaning toward a self-built simply for the fun of a hands on project.
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If you build make sure you cement it really good I had 2 leaky ones before I got one that didn't. And I just bought a ARC clear one to replace the one I built.
 
I have inline diffusers from canister output to spraybars on both my 68g and 84g. The distribution is excellent on both, as you can see the fine bubbles being blown throughout the tank. I do not mind these microbubbles at all, and in fact prefer the easy visual check that tells me the co2 is working properly.
However, two major drawbacks for me are the difficulty in cleaning the tubes (the tube brushes will not go past the diffuser, thus requiring disassembly) and similarly, when having to replace or clean the ceramic disk. I find having to empty and remove hoses to be the absolute worst chore in this hobby, and so, of course it does not get done …
I am waiting for some time in my schedule to build and install Yugang Co2 SprayBar reactors. In clear acrylic and mounted up high right above and in front of my existing water spray bars, they will be virtually invisible. After I remove the inline diffusers, I will replace the hoses with clean, unspliced ones, set my reactors in overflow mode and hopefully not worry or fuss over co2 ever again!
 
ncsuben said:
I’m curious your take on the inline diffusers and a 75G as some are concerned a 75 is at the cusp of too big for good distribution.
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If the canister is sized correctly to the inline diffuser, it should be absolutely fine. What you are after is diffusion of the CO2 into your water.

Getting enough current around your aquarium to benefit your plants can certainly be done solely by your filter’s return setup. However, in larger aquariums, you need to add additional flow to reach the point you want.
ncsuben said:
what’s the advantage to them vs say running the inlet through a spray bar
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The lily pipe concept was invented by Takeshi Amano to provide a way to flow water in a gentle patten (not disrupting the plants or fish) and to aerate the aquarium at night. In ADA, they raise the lily pipe at night to create a skimming and ripple effect. By making them transparent glass, they are aesthetically pleasing.

The spray bar lets you create a gyre type effect that sends a flat-like sheet of water across the aquarium. As you can hide it near the top of the aquarium, it is less offensive to the eye than the traditional plastic pipes. They too can be set to create ripples in the surface.

To me it is a matter of taste and what type of flow you’re after. IMHO, in a 75 you probably will need some other type of mechanism to ensure sufficient flow. I know people that use one of the small gyre pumps to create this.
 
I use a smallest wavemaker sicce voyager nano 2000l/h (500gph). But now I'm in doubt. Your are right, it does collect plant debris. But nothing to worry that much imo.

I've had it for 3 years in my tank (92 gal) beside 2 external filters to get that extra flow, less dead spots, better distribution, but maybe, reading your thoughts, it isn't needed.

I don't know how or if it effects my plants. It definitely bends my rotala macrandras a bit. Until they adapt and grow straight in the current.

I switched it off now and I will observe what happens.
 
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