Help APT Sky contains chlorides?

[GioNanni]

Hi, I wanted to know if the ATP Sky product contains any amount or even a trace of chlorides. It is certainly a product mainly composed of sulfates, which help keep conductivity excellently low; however, since in a planted aquarium a minimal amount of chlorides is needed for plants to perform functions like osmotic balance and turgor, I was wondering if a portion of chlorides is still present—given the extreme solubility of the salts (though this could also be due to more sophisticated and soluble forms of sulfate compared to other brands). Thanks in advance.
PS: If anyone has done any testing or experiments, or simply knows the minimum amount of chlorides required in a hi-tech planted aquarium to avoid deficiencies, I would love to hear your thoughts!"

 

[hamfist]

I certainly wouldn't be scared of products (like for example the Salty Shrimp products) that are full of chlorides. Many, many of us use them and have no problem with planted tanks. As for minimum Cl levels, thats another story and I can't help there.

 

[JayP]

I can't speak to the chemistry, but I can tell you my plants and livestock have done really well with APT Sky. So well, in fact, it's the one indulgent expense I've decided to stick with. I tried mixing my own cheaper mineral ingredients but went back because it's just easier and works so well. I really like that it disappears from the water column quickly.

 

[Koan]

simply knows the minimum amount of chlorides required in a hi-tech planted aquarium to avoid deficiencies

@Dennis Wong can for sure speak to the composition of APT Sky

Dennis is best able to talk about what they chose to be included in SKY, and why!

 

[nivliw]

@Dennis Wong

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

From my understanding, Cl- is barely considered a trace element. While technically it is required for healthy plant growth, we're talking TINY amounts are necessary. Like, 1-3ppm Cl- is plenty for most plants? Not completely sure, but I do add my own 99% pure NaCl into my weekly dosing.

I aim for 4ppm Cl, 2.6ppm Na. Adding these seemed to have no effect, but I use pure RO/DI water, so it gives me peace of mind!

 

[nivliw]

From my understanding, Cl- is barely considered a trace element. While technically it is required for healthy plant growth, we're talking TINY amounts are necessary. Like, 1-3ppm Cl- is plenty for most plants? Not completely sure, but I do add my own 99% pure NaCl into my weekly dosing.

I aim for 4ppm Cl, 2.6ppm Na. Adding these seemed to have no effect, but I use pure RO/DI water, so it gives me peace of mind!

Yeah I guess the issue comes if you add like 30ppm of calcium chloride then you get 50+ppm chloride in your water and I’m not sure if plants like it .
Since I’ve been using apt sky I was wondering if it has chlorides.. in my humble opinion it seems like it does, because it dissolves much quicker than say caso4.

 

[Gwad]

From my understanding, Cl- is barely considered a trace element. While technically it is required for healthy plant growth, we're talking TINY amounts are necessary. Like, 1-3ppm Cl- is plenty for most plants? Not completely sure, but I do add my own 99% pure NaCl into my weekly dosing.

I aim for 4ppm Cl, 2.6ppm Na. Adding these seemed to have no effect, but I use pure RO/DI water, so it gives me peace of mind!

Woah this is news to me for some reason. For the past year or so I have been using RODI water that I remineralize with Calcium sulfate and magnesium sulfate. Absolutely 0 Cl... I blame you actually because I used a comment you made to set my remineralizer levels Everything is doing really quite well so now I'm wondering...I actually had some issues with stunting alternanthera a few months back. Maybe that was related.

Do you just use aquarium salt?

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

Woah this is news to me for some reason. For the past year or so I have been using RODI water that I remineralize with Calcium sulfate and magnesium sulfate. Absolutely 0 Cl... I blame you actually because I used a comment you made to set my remineralizer levels Everything is doing really quite well so now I'm wondering...I actually had some issues with stunting alternanthera a few months back. Maybe that was related.

Do you just use aquarium salt?

I also used nothing but sulfate-based Mg and Cl sources for remineralizing my GH for years, and never really saw any major issues!

I'm only experimenting now with adding a bit of Na and Cl. I used pure lab-grade NaCl, though I'm sure aquarium salt would work fine too.

Time will tell if it helps or not; I don't really think it makes too much of a difference, but I wanted to make sure I was adding ALL elements plants need, and I couldn't find any Cl or Na in my dosing

Althernanthera species seem to be common stunting plants, hard to narrow down what causes it and why.

In this thread, @lapshinmr says using chloride-based GH mineralizers helped his plants/AR mini, but he's one of the only people I've seen posting about this idea (who also has successful tank pictures lol). Maybe Althernanthera species like a bit more chloride or something? Or maybe they stunt with too much SO4? Not sure, but 100ppm SO4 (about where my water sits after remineralizing) is really not too much for most plants I've tried, but I'm curious... maybe a mix of CaSO4 and CaCl2 would be better than using pure CaSO4?

 

[Burr740]

I can speak to the fact that pretty high levels of chloride doesnt cause any issues

My ferts use KCL to supply about half the total K (KNO3 supplies the rest). KCL adds approximately 1:1 ppm of each (slightly less Cl than K) This amounts to roughly 12-13 ppm Cl per week

But the biggest addition comes from the HCL I use to drop the KH in about 5 tanks. Its been a long time since I figured it, I forget the math or the exact number but its like 60-70 ppm

Never seen a problem, and those tanks are where the most sensitive plants grow

 

[Gwad]

I also used nothing but sulfate-based Mg and Cl sources for remineralizing my GH for years, and never really saw any major issues!

I'm only experimenting now with adding a bit of Na and Cl. I used pure lab-grade NaCl, though I'm sure aquarium salt would work fine too.

Time will tell if it helps or not; I don't really think it makes too much of a difference, but I wanted to make sure I was adding ALL elements plants need, and I couldn't find any Cl or Na in my dosing

Althernanthera species seem to be common stunting plants, hard to narrow down what causes it and why.

In this thread, @lapshinmr says using chloride-based GH mineralizers helped his plants/AR mini, but he's one of the only people I've seen posting about this idea (who also has successful tank pictures lol). Maybe Althernanthera species like a bit more chloride or something? Or maybe they stunt with too much SO4? Not sure, but 100ppm SO4 (about where my water sits after remineralizing) is really not too much for most plants I've tried, but I'm curious... maybe a mix of CaSO4 and CaCl2 would be better than using pure CaSO4?

Thanks for finding this other thread! Fascinating stuff. I was getting immaculate growth on every plant in the tank except for the AR, which had stunted and twisted up leaves. I ended up throwing it out because I had the looming AGA deadline. I may try it again later with a mixture of calcium sulfate and chloride to see if that makes any difference.

 

[hamfist]

I, and many other shrimpkeepers, use Salty Shrimp products to remineralize our RO. It is of note that ALL calcium in SS remineralizers is CaCl2 !!

Here's an an anlysis .....


All this Cl- seems to have no, or insignificant effect on either delicate shrimp or aqaurium plants. Admittedly I, personally, don't grow the most sensitive plants, but that is not my aim. I only run around 25 ppm CO2. Despite this I still have absolutely thriving Blyxa japonica, AR, downoi etc. (all in an inert substrate too !).

I don't know the numbers in terms of Cl ppm but all my 6 dGH comes from CaCl2 and MgSO4 (in a roughly 3 :1 ratio)

 

[Naturescapes_Rocco]

@hamfist can you share any photos of your AR? Maybe we're onto something with chlorides vs sulfates!

 

[Aquajack]

Thanks for finding this other thread! Fascinating stuff. I was getting immaculate growth on every plant in the tank except for the AR, which had stunted and twisted up leaves. I ended up throwing it out because I had the looming AGA deadline. I may try it again later with a mixture of calcium sulfate and chloride to see if that makes any difference.

That's also the one plant (AR Mini) for me out of the tank that struggles somewhat (twisted leaves, attracts a bit of algae). I also dose it seems similar to you with MGSO4 & CASO4. Would be very interested to see why this particular plant struggles when nothing else does.

 

[hamfist]

@hamfist can you share any photos of your AR? Maybe we're onto something with chlorides vs sulfates!

As requested. These pics are the AR mini which does much better than the remnant of AR Reinecki, which i still have, which has always struggled.
Please bear in mind that this is in a relatively low light tank (around 50 PAR at the substrate and 70-80 PAR at the top of the AR plants). This may account for the tall, reaching way this plant grows in this aquarium, despite looking reasonable. It clearly would like more light as, when it gets fairly tall, it starts to produce much nicer leaves (but then I tend to chop it !!!). It does not tend to branch much in my setup either. I generally just chop off the tops and replant them. If I leave the trimmed plant bottoms they often seem to go like the one in the middle of the AR group photo with intense growth and leaf production but very close internode gaps (I have no idea whats going on there).
I suspect that you guys will not be impressed by these AR's, but please bear in mind the lower light and lower cO2 (probably around 25 ppm). Its a workable plant for me and provides a nice contrast in the tank. Probably the least successful plant in the tank though TBH