Journal Advanced Planted Tank .... Amateur version

[Sb1415]

I started my first tank as an adult about a year ago, and have posted updates on it in my other journal , the Beginner Scaper Journal. I had intended the other journal to be a journey for this new tank but there were so many variables and many questions about the other set up that i thought it would best to start this new journal.

I am going to hold on to my beginner/amateur flair to the post since I think this is such a great hobby and want newcomers to know that everyone started as an amateur

Tank Inspiration
Dennis Wong's planted tanks. If you guys don't know who this is, I have already served a good purpose by introducing you to the founder of the 2Hr aquarist. He has a scientific horticulturist approach to planted tank that resonates well to my scientific mind. He is one of the few that I have read and listened to who mentions the different schools of thoughts when it comes to managing planted tanks and does not stick with a single approach.

Anyways a long winded rambling to say that everyone should read through the 2hr aquarist website. His products are all called APT (Advanced planted tank), and i think that is what his company was called before. His current display tanks are all planted tanks, which are beautiful mostly without hardscape but with lush plant growth and do not follow the rules of Dutch scaping. To anyone who wants to understand his philosophy more, i would recommend in addition to the website watch some videos where he has been interviewed.

I wanted to re-create this type of tank, but obviously as a beginner/amateur. I am hoping to learn more about growing plants with my ultimate goal to advance to a next scape which might be more nature style where i can take the knowledge from growing plants and now incorporate hardscape to it.

Equipment
Tank
- Waterbox mini 25

• 60 cm x 40 cm x 40 cm
• 90 liters or 24 gallons
• This is a big upgrade from my 29 gallon standard tank. The silicone work is flawless.
• It does come with a leveling mat.
• It is deeper and slightly taller than a 60P or UNS 60U. I thought it would be useful to have more depth.
• Background - Thanks to @Jeff Miotke suggestion

Stand

• Waterbox stand - Black
• The main contention is that it does not come with side holes like some of the other expensive stands do.
• It just comes with opening in the back, so getting the tubing out is messy.
• The door attachment is a soft close but it needs to be leveled which can be finicky
• I did add a magnetic holder for tools and will add some light as well at some point.
• It does come with leveling foot holders.
• It is nicely built other wise.
• I wish it came with a pull out like the Oase stands but guess would be very expensive.
• Overall Ok, but nothing to highly recommend about.

Filter

• Oase Biomaster 350 thermo
• Replaced the biological media with Seachem Matrix
• Replaced one of the foams with Seachem Matrix as well.
• Steel lily pipes from GLA with extension. I think many of liked this company. But I personally would not buy anything again from them. They had quality control issues with this. One of the holders were metal and other acrylic and they would not send me another metal one. These are not the cheapest especially and you also have to buy extension separately. These are made by a chinese company and not made by GLA.
• I used to have glass lily pipes but got tired of cleaning them.

Skimmer

• I read many people commenting that using a skimmer attached to the inflow or outflow might be a pain to adjust, so ended up getting the Oase Crystal skim

CO2

• Fzone Co2 inline diffuser
• These work great and this is the second one that i have gotten. Trouble free but might need to replace parts of it if it gets clogged. Important thing is that it can be opened to clean.
• I have a Fzone dual stage regulator
  • Cheapest that i could find and works very well - highly recommend

Water

• I use RO water and remineralize it with APT Sky to a GH of around 4. Use the calculator on APT webpage.
• My goals are to have a low KH, and GH of around 4 - 5.

Substrate

• APT feast about 12 Liters
• You can read about my experience cycling it here using Dark Start (sort of)
• I did not want Aquasoil in the front of the tank and wanted a thin lining of gravel so used a gravel from Carribsea, and some smooth lava stones to separate them. More about this later but i don't really like the way it turned out.

Lighting

• Chihiros WRGB II - 10th anniv edition - 60 cm.

Plant List (Links provided to their care on the 2 hr Aquarist website if interested)

Background

• Left - Rotala blood red
• Middle - Rotala Tulunadensis (From Burr Aqua)
• Right - Alteranthera Reineckii Rosaefolia

Midground

• Left - Blyxa Joponica
• Middle - Ludwigea Arcuata, Pogostemon Decannensis, Rotala Florida, Staurogyne Repens
• Right - Syngonathus Belem/Macrocaulon(From Burr Aqua)

Foreground

• Left - Lobelia cardinalis mini
• Middle/Right - S.Repens and Montecarlo
• Still to come - Eleocharis Aricularis mini (in the place where the stones are)

Misc

• Clump of Hydrocortyle Tripartita to absorb nitrogen - Trust me you do not want this plant for any other reason, will take over your tank and get everything into a tangled mess.

Fish List (Preliminary)

• 4 Rasbora espei
• 2 Otos
• Will be adding more from my prior tank

Maintenance Parameters

• Lighting - 30% - 8 am - 3 pm
• Co2 - 40 ppm by Hanna co2 kit, 5 am - 3 pm
• Fertilizer - APT 1 - Still not settled on a routine but the recommended dose for daily dosing would be about 2.3 ml and i do about 2-3 ml every 3 days.
• Water changes 75% every 3 - 4 days, will make it weekly in the next couple of weeks

Photos
photo 1 - Day 11
Photo 2 - Day 20
Photo 3 - Day 21 - Current - Testing - Ammonia 0, Nitrate about 10 on API kit - Changed filter outlet location to get reduced current
Photo 4 - Day 21 - Side view

Thanks for reading so far!

There has been some good growth, some expected filamentous algae/diatmos and some melting, all expected hopefully this would not get too bad.
The Rotala blood red, Florida and Ludwigea arcuata are doing great. Both the florida and Arcuata seems to do much better on the aquasoil than on my prior intert substrate.
Blyxa melted a little but getting better, the Tulunadensis is struggling. The rest holding stable.
Interesting observation - The Rotala blood red, started putting out lot of roots and side shoots which i think is mainly because the plant was being pushed by the current to almost bend sideways and I believe it is thinking that it close the surface and doing its thing. With the changed filter outlet location I am hoping that it will be more erect and when i cut and replant there will be less roots. 2hr aquarist has written about this as well, but i think the bending sideways leading to rooting is not mentioned.

I am not liking the layout as much as i thought i would. Have been discussing with BurrAqua and have some suggestions but still thinking about this. Thoughts and suggestions welcome. Hopefully lot of people with (@Burr740 , @Dennis Wong @Art @techman81 @Pepere @Unexpected @Naturescapes_Rocco @Jeff Miotke @BenB @DutchMuch ) and without experience will follow and share this tank journey with me.

This is a great forum and i have tagged people that i am familiar with on the forum who have answered my questions and helped.

 

[techman81]

The tank looks great!

I did not want Aquasoil in the front of the tank and wanted a thin lining of gravel so used a gravel from Carribsea, and some smooth lava stones to separate them. More about this later but i don't really like the way it turned out.

It's likely bothering you because straight lines of stones don't look natural to the human eye.

The main contention is that it does not come with side holes like some of the other expensive stands do.

I modified my Waterbox stand. Not the prettiest, but that side really won't show.

 

[Sb1415]

The tank looks great!


It's likely bothering you because straight lines of stones don't look natural to the human eye.

I modified my Waterbox stand. Not the prettiest, but that side really won't show.
View attachment 10683

My initial thought was the carpet would swallow the stones or flow over it and fall on the sand and break the straight line but the stones were larger than I had anticipated. Let’s see what happens with the hair grass.

Nice job with the side holes! Assuming you used a drill and then sanded/painted ? Are there any metal in there at all ? I would want to do something similar but make the opening horizontal.

 

[Koan]

I wish it came with a pull out like the Oase stands but guess would be very expensive.

Looks like this pull-out will fit your cabinet not too bad if you pick up a used / open box

 

[techman81]

Nice job with the side holes! Assuming you used a drill and then sanded/painted ? Are there any metal in there at all ? I would want to do something similar but make the opening horizontal

No metal. Hole saw plus jigsaw and yes, some matte black paint. I made horizontal cutouts on my previous diy stand but didn't care for how there's less flexibility on running the tubing. Especially, if using silicone tubing, and depending how tight space is in the cabinet, the tubing can easily kink passing through the horizontal cutout.

 

[Sb1415]

Looks like this pull-out will fit your cabinet not too bad if you pick up a used / open box

View attachment 10700
View attachment 10701

Thank you, will look into this!

 

[Sb1415]

No metal. Hole saw plus jigsaw and yes, some matte black paint. I made horizontal cutouts on my previous diy stand but didn't care for how there's less flexibility on running the tubing. Especially, if using silicone tubing, and depending how tight space is in the cabinet, the tubing can easily kink passing through the horizontal cutout.

Good to know!! i was not thinking of the kinking. All said, i have now decided to place the filter outlets in the back different than the traditional way of keeping it on the side. Now i can just use the back of the tank to get the tubes out.

Looks like most of the 2hr aquarist tanks follow this as well, and it definitely creates a more smoother flow, since it hits the front glass where there are no tall plants and then spreads evenly out. Curious if others have used this setup and if there are drawbacks to this,

 

[Count Krunk]

You've seen the yugang reactor i assume? Just making sure.

So you're just dosing the single fert from 2hr aquarist?

 

[Sb1415]

You've seen the yugang reactor i assume? Just making sure.

So you're just dosing the single fert from 2hr aquarist?

Yup i did, and actually bought the acrylic reactor but ended up not fitting the cabinet. I could have changed aspects of it to make it fit, but I did not think that the cabinet had enough space for it. I am very happy with the inline co2 diffuser and the bubbles don't really bother me much so lets see. If I ever get a bigger tank i might use it with it.

That said, I think there is a concept of Co2 mist that DW talks about (which i think was originally from Tom Barr); I don't think the Yugang reactor can produce the benefits of the Co2 mist, but I am not sure if this has ever been discussed and would be curious to get people's thoughts on this.

Yes, just the APT 1 for now. My goal is to have lean dosing and substrate based feeding.

 

[Count Krunk]

I've not heard of this co2 mist concept at all before i don't think.

 

[gnatster]

I've not heard of this co2 mist concept at all before i don't think.

See the Advantage of CO2 Mist section in this article on 2hr Aquarist CO2 diffusion methods

 

[Sb1415]

I've not heard of this co2 mist concept at all before i don't think.

He goes over it in this video
But i think it is quite old and not sure if he changed his mind on the importance of Co2 mist.
Maybe he can comment @Dennis Wong

 

[Koan]

Here is Tom's 2005 article

First page:



In later Barr Report discussions the concern is about the difficulty the plant has in physically absorbing CO2 out of solution, along it's physical boundary layer with the water. Further research also shows additional work required to move dissolved CO2 through plant tissues, compared to its ability to translocate CO2 that exists in a gas form through those same tissues. Here's another article that talks a little about that

This is almost certainly a very valid point, and a benefit to CO2 mist from diffusers.

At the end of the day, the point of the Yugang reactor is not that it is the absolute perfect best for plants.

Rather, the point is that it is

a) excellent for plants, because plants thrive on stability and this form of dissolution is the most effective way to dissolve absolutely consistent levels of CO2 in water

b) aesthetically pleasing without distracting bubbles, and

c) most importantly, when correctly designed can be made 100% safe for animals i.e. impossible to gas your fish.

With the wide availability of extremely inexpensive CO2 regulators and needle valves in the last 15 years, it has become easy to forget that a cheap regulator can cause EOTD, "end of tank dump".

This is when, on the day you reach the end of the gas in your tank , the regulator is unable to maintain a steady pressure.

Instead, on that day, the pressure soars, your CO2 injection goes out of control and kills all your livestock.

This is a very real concern with inexpensive CO2 regulators, especially those that are either single stage or sold as "dual gauge" rather than "dual stage" . It's uncommon to hear this talked about anymore, compared to when CO2 first started gaining wide use.

But the risk is still absolutely an issue, it is inherent in the very nature of single stage CO2 regulators.

 

[Mr.Shenanagins]

I don't think the Yugang reactor can produce the benefits of the Co2 mist, but I am not sure if this has ever been discussed and would be curious to get people's thoughts on this.

It can, when in overflow mode. With my setup, the output for my reactor exits at my sumps Return pump. The excess purged bubbles get sucked in a chopped up by the impellar, resulting in mist. However, you will be doing this at the max threshold if you have your reactor setup for max power. If you reduce its power you can then operate in overflow to the point you get most and just tune from there.

 

[Sb1415]

This is a very real concern with inexpensive CO2 regulators, especially those that are "dual gauge" rather than "dual stage" . It's uncommon to hear this talked about anymore, compared to when CO2 first started gaining wide use.

Thank you! How does one know if it is dual gauge or dual stage ? i have a Fzone dual stage regulator - it was cheaper than the remaining but not by much.

 

[Koan]

If it's advertised as dual stage then we assume that's correct. Fzone is an inexpensive regulator, but I don't know that they have a reputation for misrepresenting the regulators.
They certainly do also sell very inexpensive "dual gauge" as well, as a way to fool people into thinking it's the higher end regulator.

A bigger issue for us is with the inexpensive needle valve on something like an FZone regulator, trying to maintain CO2 stability over time. You may find that your bubble count will drift and change, even though you don't adjust it. The amount of CO2 you inject changes with it, if you use mist injection, but the Yugang reactor fixes this.

Anyway, the protection you get from the second stage is the reason that we don't all just use $50 hydroponic single stage regulators.

What we refer to as "end of tank dump", is what the pressurized gas industry actually refers to as "Supply Pressure Effect" , here's a detailed technical explanation




When you have a dual stage regulator, the second stage is what protects you from the enormous pressure change when the gas in the tank approaches the very end of the contents.





Unless the second stage were to fail for some reason, or you were injecting the very very maximum of the tolerance of your livestock, they should be should be protected from EOTD.

 

[Sb1415]

If it's advertised as dual stage then we assume that's correct. Fzone is an inexpensive regulator, but I don't know that they have a reputation for misrepresenting the regulators.
They certainly do also sell very inexpensive "dual gauge" as well, as a way to fool people into thinking it's the higher end regulator.

(More of an issue is maintaining CO2 stability over time with the inexpensive needle valve that you get with something like an FZone regulator. You will find that your bubble count will drift and change over time, even though you don't adjust it. The amount of CO2 you inject changes with it, if you use mist injection, but the Yugang reactor fixes this.)

The protection you get from the second stage is the reason that we don't all just use $50 hydroponic single stage regulators.

What we refer to as "end of tank dump", is what the pressurized gas industry actually refers to as "Supply Pressure Effect" , here's a detailed technical explanation




When you have a dual stage regulator, the second stage is what protects you from the enormous pressure change when the gas in the tank goes from gas to liquid at the very end of the contents.

View attachment 10717

Unless the second stage were to fail for some reason, or you were injecting the very very maximum of the tolerance of your livestock, they should be should be protected from EOTD.

Thank you very helpful.

This is what i have and it is a Dual Stage - phew.....

https://www.amazon.com/FZONE-Regulator-Adjustable-Integrated-Precision/dp/B0838KXK5D/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=JKZR9LW1Z9UB&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.af2NlosKf1df0-KuYvFqJhYbG9LttWg6RGF82cdpnhGC9tldTtdCpJJ3IrBrJRJaS643MWBTfMqmCP69RR920vzzIBj6P75_bbIQonh6QF--eh9q8D6SRqO04dTO2miZYjq_kgVagFUa7pgDNnwArLGS2sasWXNCKEy_yGx0du0NDrwuRj--jr--7-2EjbInPI3sqfRvpMvI2_9TeIK8kQZI0IARkiPQnZXDtSiTUGsZwgq0Wh0nfT8gmJKoeMlj0mSrng2AxvhkZKpK4UzBmffD2D4Kr_dUXitCiC-h54U.Bm2lJJQU10S2Z-MTTSEFOypDOV1tbdsJk3znKT-ES5A&dib_tag=se&keywords=fzone+co2+regulator&qid=1759438441&sprefix=fzone+c%2Caps%2C237&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[techman81]

Thank you very helpful.

LOL! That's why this forum is so great. Ask a simple question and get a free course in science and engineering 101 (or maybe that was advanced 201). I love this group!

 

[Dennis Wong]

Hello,
I think the slight edge that CO2 mist gives is applicable to the apex difficulty species such as the Red Eriocaulon, Hygrophila chai etc. It really doesn't play much of a factor for the majority of species.

For your current plant selection, the most CO2 demanding plant would be the Rotala florida - which does better at proper 30+ppm. All the other species will grow well even if you are in the low range of 10ppm+ for CO2, so your margin of error for CO2 is actually very wide (other than for Rotala florida). So I wouldn't waste too much time thinking about the implications of CO2 mist in this context.

I think the blood red? In the rear left is already past due for the first trim/shaping, you can replant the trimmed tops to thicken the bush. The AR shouldn't be in the rear right, it doesn't gain height fast enough relative to other species - it should be used in the mid with the Staurogyne or switching location with the Syngonanthus. The Syngonanthus shouldn't be in the rear right either - it doesn't gain height fast enough (its also more suitable as a mid ground plant as AR but slightly taller). Can consider some other stem for the rear right - ones that build good density would be Limnophila aromatica (less replanting required), Myriophyllum species such as the Golden myrio (sensitive to algae), or even pearl weed. Rotala macrandra can also be used but it needs frequent replanting.

You may want to consider breaking up the line or round rocks if it looks a bit stiff. May add in some smaller/larger ones, and have them staggered front/back a bit to give a more natural formation. I would also recommend pushing the staurogyne forward abit as the stem plant bushes will take up more space as they mature. You can move substrate around by pushing it with your hands, so altering the layout is not as difficult as it seems.

The plant selection/layout looks good otherwise, very workable layout.

 

[Sb1415]

Hello,
I think the slight edge that CO2 mist gives is applicable to the apex difficulty species such as the Red Eriocaulon, Hygrophila chai etc. It really doesn't play much of a factor for the majority of species.

For your current plant selection, the most CO2 demanding plant would be the Rotala florida - which does better at proper 30+ppm. All the other species will grow well even if you are in the low range of 10ppm+ for CO2, so your margin of error for CO2 is actually very wide (other than for Rotala florida). So I wouldn't waste too much time thinking about the implications of CO2 mist in this context.

I think the blood red? In the rear left is already past due for the first trim/shaping, you can replant the trimmed tops to thicken the bush. The AR shouldn't be in the rear right, it doesn't gain height fast enough relative to other species - it should be used in the mid with the Staurogyne or switching location with the Syngonanthus. The Syngonanthus shouldn't be in the rear right either - it doesn't gain height fast enough (its also more suitable as a mid ground plant as AR but slightly taller). Can consider some other stem for the rear right - ones that build good density would be Limnophila aromatica (less replanting required), Myriophyllum species such as the Golden myrio (sensitive to algae), or even pearl weed. Rotala macrandra can also be used but it needs frequent replanting.

You may want to consider breaking up the line or round rocks if it looks a bit stiff. May add in some smaller/larger ones, and have them staggered front/back a bit to give a more natural formation. I would also recommend pushing the staurogyne forward abit as the stem plant bushes will take up more space as they mature. You can move substrate around by pushing it with your hands, so altering the layout is not as difficult as it seems.

The plant selection/layout looks good otherwise, very workable layout.

Very helpful!!

Yes Rotala blood red not sure if it is the SG version but will have to see what happens to it when the nitrates drop. Good to know that you would trim it prior to it reaching the surface.

The AR roseafolia seems to take trimming well so will move it to the mid ground and make other changes.

Should have updates soon.