Would these lower numbers apply to those of us using inert substrates? Maybe it’s more of try and see?
2 part question: Preloading macros and GH/KH mysteries
- Thread starter qwedfg
- Start date
And perhaps to 0 / low dKH and low pH as well? With high KH, and pH, some may dose a bit more, so that plants can get access to iron before chelators are gone?
Hanuman
New Member
Honestly I think you are largely overdosing. These are basically old style full EI dosing levels and even beyond considering the amount of the PO4 your are dosing. Your tank is also far from being heavily planted, or in other words the plant mass is quite low at present. I don't know of anyone dosing that much PO4 these days. Perhaps Tom in is old experimentation, but 3 to 4ppm is already quite in excess and far enough to combat spot algae.
Phosphate, being highly reactive, also tends to sticks with anything it can, it's a magnet, so it could potentially render some nutrient unavailable if PH starts going up. That is why when preparing DIY AIO solutions where you traces and phosphate together it's important to lower the PH to a good 3-4PH to minimize precipitation. Considering concentration levels are much lower inside the tank than in your fert bottle, I couldn't say how much of this is really happening, but 8ppm is already quite excessive.
I think inert substrates are harder to juggle as a whole as it means your water column has to be pinpoint across all species. And yea, you will be dosing more of Fe, N and P particularly.
When using harder water, I don't find dosing more particularly effective. I find that coming back again to using an acidic, soil substrate helps. For example Pogostemon erectus and macrandra stunts easily when grown in higher KH water with heavy dosing, but you can grow both species alright with a rich substrate, leaner water column approach. In that sense, some plant species react differently from being feed one route or the other.
With a soil substrate you can also feed a particular patch by inserting root tabs, with inert substrates, tabs leech the majority of their contents into the water column.
Thank you Dennis,
Thank you for your insight!
The times I've tried AR has always been while using inert substrates and I observe the same symptoms as illustrated above. I'm running Fe at around .45 to .5 as proxy. I've always chalked it up to AR may not like sand compared to aqua soils. I will lower my micros and see what happens. Maybe it's not the sand and as you say, toxicity.
Thank you for your insight!
- Thread starter
- #26
Hello again,
It seems my AR problem has mostly resolved itself and the leaves are coming in normally. I did lower my micros but have recently increased them again to see if the AR will stunt.
Unfortunately my kH/gH problem remains. I just tested my kh and gh and the kH was ~3 and my gh was 8. Since removing my seiryu stone and going to a dutch aquascape on August 8th I have been doing water changes with 0 kh and 6 gh water and have since lowered my gh to 4. How could my kh and gh remain so high after 2 months of water changes with 0 kh water? I have tested my water change bucket as well and confirmed the values were correct.
Is this an issue with the aquasoil...could it be leeching minerals absorbed during the year the seiryu stone was in the tank? Will I need to change out my aquasoil to fix this problem? Could I cycle new aquasoil in a bucket and then replace my current soil without causing an ammonia spike?
It seems my AR problem has mostly resolved itself and the leaves are coming in normally. I did lower my micros but have recently increased them again to see if the AR will stunt.
Unfortunately my kH/gH problem remains. I just tested my kh and gh and the kH was ~3 and my gh was 8. Since removing my seiryu stone and going to a dutch aquascape on August 8th I have been doing water changes with 0 kh and 6 gh water and have since lowered my gh to 4. How could my kh and gh remain so high after 2 months of water changes with 0 kh water? I have tested my water change bucket as well and confirmed the values were correct.
Is this an issue with the aquasoil...could it be leeching minerals absorbed during the year the seiryu stone was in the tank? Will I need to change out my aquasoil to fix this problem? Could I cycle new aquasoil in a bucket and then replace my current soil without causing an ammonia spike?
I would start with calibrating the test kits against know GH/KH solutions. I’ve never heard of Aqua Soils leaching minerals, the opposite really. There’s absolutely no other sources in the aquarium that could be dumping minerals into the water? Your measurements are correct and the source water is not the cause? You top the tank off with 0 TDS water?
KH 3 is really fine for most stuff, you don't seem to have very softwater plants?
I did this tank with KH 9 - 11 because of the Seiryu rock. You can still grow macrandras in such a setup, but no toninas/Syngonanthus obviously. So as long as your plant selection doesn't have stuff that requires super softwater, I think its not an issue to fuss over.
I did this tank with KH 9 - 11 because of the Seiryu rock. You can still grow macrandras in such a setup, but no toninas/Syngonanthus obviously. So as long as your plant selection doesn't have stuff that requires super softwater, I think its not an issue to fuss over.
- Thread starter
- #29
I am fairly sure that my test kits are ok because of testing my water change bucket. I used rotala butterfly to calculate how much CaSO4 and MgSO4 to add to the brute container I use for water changes. I was using targets of 25 ca and 10 mg and when I would test my water change bucket it would test to 0 kh and 6 gh. I would then use a tds pen to confirm my reading and if you use a value of 18 tds per gH the math worked out.
I use RO water for water changes and I check the TDS every time I make water...it reads at 0-1 tds.
The only water I add to my tank I haven't checked is the distilled water I get from the grocery store in gallon jugs. I use this for top off.
I can't think of any other source of kh and gh beyond the ferts I'm adding which should contribute very minimally.
My main concern is I don't know why my kh and gh are elevated and I'd like to add some CRS and my water is too hard despite the TDS of my tank being in range (~160). I'd like to reduce my kh to 0-1 and my gh to ~5.
I love this tank it was one of the inspirations that got me to bite on a planted tank a year and a half ago when I was trying to decide whether to get back into reefing or join the planted tank world.
@qwedfg
Here is an easy way to test of your aqua soil is leaching back into your tank. Net out a scope of the aqua soil from the tank. Let as much water run off it in the net. Put the aqua soil to a cup/jar and add enough pure RO water (nothing added to it)to cover it by a couple of inches. Your RO with 0-1 TDS would be fine. Let this sit for a day and measure TDS. If the aqua soil is leaching anything the TDS will go up. It might take more than a day to start increasing, im not sure how long it takes for you to see an increase in your tank parameters. After a few days you could do a alkalinity or hardness test on the water from the jar.
This won’t solve the problem of leaching for you and your plan to add CRS but at least you will know where the alkalinity and hardness are or aren’t coming from. Then you can plan accordingly with water source and ferts without having a moving target of alkalinity and hardness.
Absolutely 100% agree with this. Ive actually used AR for a few years to tell me when my recipe was too high because its the first plant to react ime, just slightly before Rotalas. Which is odd since Rotalas have a much faster growth rate in a high energy tank. But with AR varieties it will quickly affect existing leaves not just the new ones coming in
I can also say with 85% certainty that Fe isnt the main culprit - assuming the appropriate Fe is being used. Its one or more of the lesser micros although I havent been able to narrow it down further. And while I do believe there is an optimum general ratio for all the micros, I do not believe there is a magic ratio where the toxicity response doesnt happen
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- Thread starter
- #32
just as a continuation of this thread since it’s been more than a month. I have been continuing to monitor my kh and gh and still have seen elevated levels in my tank. Since my last post of having a kh of 3 my kh has continued to decrease and is now at 2. I checked before changing the water last night and then again this afternoon and got the same reading using an api test.
I also checked my water change bucket today and it took one drop to see a yellow color change which I take as zero because there isn’t anything I add that would increase kh. It does seem like my aquasoil is leeching kh/gh that it picked up during the year plus of having seiryu stone in the tank as there is no other explanation as to why I’d see elevated kh levels in my tank.
I also checked my water change bucket today and it took one drop to see a yellow color change which I take as zero because there isn’t anything I add that would increase kh. It does seem like my aquasoil is leeching kh/gh that it picked up during the year plus of having seiryu stone in the tank as there is no other explanation as to why I’d see elevated kh levels in my tank.
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